<p>My 15 year old son is on the math team at his HS. He loves math and we have been aware since 4th or 5th grade that he has a "math mind" and is ahead of most kids his age. Currently, he is ranked second in our state (for his grade, 10) based on his placement in various competitions. He's currently taking AP Calculus AB, and it seems almost effortless for him, although the competitive math problems seem very different than the normal, classroom math and are much more difficult.</p>
<p>My question, what can we do to help him get to the next level? It would be a big confidence booster if he could continue to excel. It seems that many kids like him attend summer programs for advanced math, take additional classes, etc. We've never pushed it and everything he knows at this point (in terms of the competitions), he has learned on his own. </p>
<p>He mentioned that his was the only "non-ORM" name on the list of the ranked math students. He thinks that the more successful kids spend hours and hours doing problems and they are not athletic. He plays sports and he has other interests - is it hopeless for a kid like him to progress? Would he not "fit-in" at one of the various math programs (we've received several brochures).</p>
<p>By “non-ORM” do you mean White or do you mean URM? While others may disagree I think the “Will he fit in” question will depend on that. Political correctness aside, most Asians and Jews would much rather be around a White kid than Black kid. And I’m sure he wouldn’t be the only White kid at one of these programs. </p>
<p>But beyond that, I don’t really have anything of value to say, other than I think that if it was the wrong decision and he tried anyway, it wouldn’t be a big deal. If it were the right decision and he didn’t do it, he might regret it for a while.</p>
<p>I would leave it up to him whether to attend a session like that or not. He seems to know what he wants to do if he is involved with sports, etc. DD2 was also very good at math (not as accelerated as your son) and we gave her the option of attending a summer session. She chose no. She is happy at her college this year majoring in math, doing the clubs she wants.</p>
<p>He says that he’s the only non-Asian kid at the competitions (not true, I’m sure). He seems to think that the Asian students are much smarter than he is and he’ll never really be competitive with them. He says that his current high ranking is just a fluke because the last competition featured a probabilities section (his “specialty”) and when the competitions don’t have probabilities, he’ll “bomb.” </p>
<p>So, it’s not really a matter of not wanting to be around the ORM kids, from what I can tell, it’s a matter of feeling inferior.</p>
<p>You have plenty of time to let him develop, and I would encourage you to take your cues from your child. He is the one who will have to balance the demands of sports, math team, and other ECs.</p>
<p>My oldest son sounds something like yours. He gave up his two school sports teams after sophomore year to concentrate on math. We are fortunate to have what they call an “All-Star” math group in our area. You should look for the same - sometimes they are called math circles. The Art of Problem Solving website is a great source for advanced math students, as is your math team coach and math department head. They will know what opportunities are available. If you don’t have a lot of advanced students nearby, there are online courses to explore.</p>
<p>The Asian or non-Asian issue isn’t that big of a deal. Some cultures do encourage this sort of competition more than others, but there is greater diversity beyond what your son has experienced. Anyway, it can be fun to be the biggest jock in the bunch During college applications, both Caltech and MIT sent letters asking about sports experience. My son found many simpatico friends in the math group and still runs into them - he even went on a job interview 2000 miles away and bumped into a teammate interviewing at the same time. This isn’t all that big of a coincidence since these kids tend towards certain types of jobs, and are very in demand. This may not sound relevant since it is quite a few years away for your son, but if he is looking for something that makes him highly employable, advanced math study is a great foothold in the climb. </p>
<p>While you are looking at school year programs, take a look at the summer programs in number theory (PROMYS, etc.) There are other top-rated programs with an open selection of courses, but an early course in number theory is a good starting point at his age. Again, these are things he has to want to do himself. I knew my son was on the right course when he would come home from his math group - which met every three or four weeks - and do the required problems the minute he got home. That’s love.</p>
<p>Your son could look up the website TheArtofProblemSolving.com. It has tons of resources, including online classes.
He could sign up for competitions such as AMC10,AMC12 (depending on his level); the next level, after he has performed well on AMC12 is AIME; that would lead to USAMO and ultimately to IMO.
If he wants to proceed beyond AP-Calc, he could go the EPGY route or sign up for classes at his local college.
For summer camps, there are the Ross Program at Ohio State, PROMYS at BU (modelled on the Ross program), MathCamp as well as some others. Both Ross and PROMYS focus on number theory; MathCamp introduces students to a wider variety of topics, obviously in somewhat less depth. All are incredibly intense. My S went to PROMYS for three summers. When we went to pick him up at the end, I always saw students in tears.</p>
<p>There’s certainly no problem with doing advanced math using an online curriculum but that curriculum is still geared towards mainstream college students.</p>
<p>I would also recommend the Art and Craft of Problem Solving.</p>
<p>Thanks for the EPGY information - I think he may like that. His math coach mentioned PROMYS. What is the social atmosphere like in the various summer camps? </p>
<p>He visits the Art of Problem Solving site now; I purchased a few books for him about the AMC 10 and 12. I like the AMC prep on the EPGY website. It seems like he should do a minimum amount of prep to do his best on the test.</p>
<p>He took the AMC 10 last year (9th grade) and he qualified for the AIME (but he didn’t take it). Should he take the AMC 10 again this year or move up to the AMC 12?</p>
<p>Next year, he’ll take AP Calc BC and AP Statistics, which will exhaust all of the math available at his school. Any suggestions about what classes he should take senior year?</p>
<p>I don’t think we’re pushing him. In fact, looking back, I wish we had given him more opportunities starting in middle school. He seems to get a huge charge out of getting a hard problem correct - he jumps off the chair and laughs and gets really excited. He’s also super-focused when he’s working. Nothing can distract him (and we have a loud house). It’s very unlikely he’ll progress to the math olympics or anything close - those students have worked much longer and harder than he can ever, but it would be good for him to achieve enough to set him apart a little bit from the crowd.</p>
<p>I’d add the recommendation of UIUC’s Netmath program to EPGY. They have a Mathematica-based system (so that has to be learned). They offer courses in Linear Algebra, Probability and Statistics and Differential Equations above Calc I, II and III.</p>
<p>Another area that he may like is Discrete Mathematics. This is harder to find online that the more traditional college math courses.</p>
<p>Hmmm, your second post has a few warning signs. You need to go very gently here in letting him find what works for him. A long camp like PROMYS (six weeks) may be too much. As for the social life, my son said frankly that there were a number of odd kids there. It’s a broadening thing for many math kids, but it sounds like your son wants to be more in the mainstream.</p>
<p>There are college summer programs with a wide variety of courses, where he could follow more than one interest. U of Chicago, CMU, the Ivies and most of the top universities offer these.</p>
<p>I think that you may be right. I wouldn’t want him to be stuck somewhere for six weeks and hate it. He’d probably never forgive me. I do think that maybe two weeks in a college setting could be great experience. My daughter attended the Amherst tennis camp for a few years and it helped her understand what dorm living is all about. </p>
<p>What camp did your son attend? What else did he say? My son has a huge radar for what he considers “weird” kids. Do you think these camps attract unusual personalities? Do many “average kids” want to spend their summer doing math problems?</p>
<p>the Stanford EPGY camp is only 3 weeks long, and attracts very smart students from many states and countries. And because they are not only ‘MATH’ students there, he will find a nice mix of students with different interests. The weather at Stanford in the summer can’t be beat either- warm, no humidity, blissful!</p>
<p>“Any suggestions about what classes he should take senior year?”
EPGY or other online classes, or classes at a local CC or college ,if you want him to get some sort of credit, which would be advisable, or perhaps some of MIT’s Opencourse math classes[?]- no credit offered.</p>
<p>Uh, so I’m not a parent, but I have some experience with these contests</p>
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<p>There’s always the opportunity to take both, since the AMC is offered on two different dates.</p>
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<p>Actually, this might not be so true. I know of someone who went from not qualifying for the USAMO one year (which has 500 people qualifying) to being a USAMO winner the next (which consists of 12 people), so big jumps are possible.</p>
<p>Also, for other math contests, there is the USAMTS, which is done completely online, and then ARML, where different states/regions send teams to different sites; if your son isn’t sure about math camps, this might be a good thing to try out, since he’ll be exposed to the types of people that would attend camps, but it’s only a weekend long.</p>
<p>He might look into computer programming. My son did MathCounts in middle school, and continued to do the AMC 10, 12 and AIME contests in high school, but got more interested in computer science. He mostly taught himself, though he did take one summer school class at Columbia and went to a week or two of computer camp one year in middle school. </p>
<p>If he’s good at math he definitely should keep taking math courses - BC Calc if the school offers it, or look to see what the local colleges offer or take courses through the many distant learning options.</p>
<p>Check out the websites for the different programs.
PROMYS is at Boston University, which is very urban and thus is very different from the experience one can get at MathCamp in terms of environment. Mathcamp tries to alternate between the West and East Coast and seems to have more of a summer camp feel, though it’s still at a college setting.
There are “weird” kids anywhere. PROMYS does not have a monopoly on them! My S’s CTY roommate was definitely “weird.” His PROMYS friends were nerds but not weird (at least to him).
I can only speak of my S’s experience at PROMYS. first, there is an admission test. Applicants need not be able to complete all questions, but should attempt them all.
The program is 6-weeks long and focuses on number theory. Students spend most of their time working on problem sets, very often in groups. S’s friends all came together in a study group and ate together, performed in the talent show together, played board games together. Most of them attended multiple summers (except for those who applied late in their high school career). There are counselors, some of whom are college students drawn not only from Harvard and MIT but also from other math programs; junior counselors are high school graduates who’ve gone through the program before and are on their way to college.
My S mentioned “mandatory fun” on Sundays when the students go to the banks of the Charles River with the admonition to avoid talking math. There is a friendly rivalry with the RSI students at MIT, culminating in the Ultimate Frisbee game toward the end of the programs.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the great advice - you are all a wealth of valuable information!</p>
<p>Marite - your comments about PROMYS make it sound like a good fit in many ways. I think my son would like the focus on number theory. He’s very interested in theoretical math - not programming at all, so the curriculum sounds appropriate. Did your son attend for more than one year? His math team coach/advisor seems to think that it would good for him. We live within a few hours of Boston, so BU would be pretty easy. I just worry about the length of the program. </p>
<p>Have any of your kids moved onto engineering or programming? I just wonder where these skills will take him. He did Science Olympiad in middle school (he actually won a national bronze medal in a particularly odd event), but he’s becoming less and less a tinkerer and more theoretical.</p>
During college applications, both Caltech and MIT sent letters asking about sports experience. My son found many simpatico friends in the math group and still runs into them - he even went on a job interview 2000 miles away and bumped into a teammate interviewing at the same time. This isn’t all that big of a coincidence since these kids tend towards certain types of jobs, and are very in demand. This may not sound relevant since it is quite a few years away for your son, but if he is looking for something that makes him highly employable, advanced math study is a great foothold in the climb. </p>