Mm, my main reason for recommending working rather than going to an MA program (and I’m only 28; I graduated into the recession) is because while MA programs cost money without significantly reducing your time to the PhD, working a job allows you to earn money that you can then put towards savings to cover shortfalls in graduate school - security deposits, down payment on a car, moving expenses, etc. I don’t think it’s harder to find a job than it is to get into graduate school, but then again I am in a field with an overall 12% acceptance rate to PhD programs. It really depends on your field and what kind of degree you’re getting into. There are still some entry-level jobs, and I think it’s probably more difficult to gain admission to a top PhD program than getting an entry-level job. Getting into any graduate program - well, that’s a different story.
That said, I agree that this is mostly a matter of semantics; I wouldn’t call UTK a “safety school” for you (because nothing is safe in PhD admissions), but rather just a less desirable school on your list that is also not as great a fit for you (which is totally normal). But the words used is not important; it’s the understanding. Only you can decide if you would want to go to UTK given it’s less ideal fit. Again, this is all personal opinion, but - having completed a PhD myself - I am of the mind that it’s simply not worth it to go to a PhD program that’s not a great, excellent, or perfect fit for you. The academic/research job market is so competitive, and the work of a PhD so grueling, that to ME it only makes sense to go to a program that’s a great fit - so you can enjoy the work and do what you want to do when you graduate. But other people do (and have) disagree with me - they think that even a less-great-fit PhD can get the job done. I think this is a field-specific thing, too, and also a personal preference: there were many jobs that I can see myself enjoying, many of which do not require a PhD, so for me it’d be better to do one of those than go to a PhD program that wasn’t a perfect fit. But some people want a PhD above all other things, and so it makes more sense for them to go to a program that’s maybe not a perfect fit but a decent fit.
I was in grad school for math, which seems to be among the (if not the) most competitive fields to get into for some reason. Even if the admit rate is under 10%, most people who do well in college can apply to 10 schools, give or take, and usually get into at least 1. On the other hand, to get a job, people should be applying for hundreds and hundreds of jobs. I agree you shouldn’t shell out 50-100k for a Master’s if it’s not the right career move, but if you have financial support or a TAship or something, it may not be so bad. And a Ph.D. should obviously come with some funding.
Also, it seems a bit silly to compare top Ph.D. programs to entry-level jobs. That should be compared to getting a job at companies like Google or Facebook, I’d think.
As far as the safety issue, I agree with most of what you said. It sounds great to say “well I didn’t get in anywhere that’s a great fit so I’ll go do something else.” Unfortunately, not everyone is afforded such choices in this age.
I am not interested in a masters, 100%. I’m not even sure I’m going to have ISU’s MS in biochemistry as a backup. My father has a master’s in engineering, and has done extremely well. HOWEVER, it depends on career goals and also the field you’re in. I want a PhD in order to pursue academic research (hopefully). I cannot do the high level research that I would like with a masters, and that is the long and short of it. I don’t want to go to work before going to grad school because it would be a waste of my time as well as the company’s. I have not had any interest in industry at all. I am pretty certain that I will get in SOMEWHERE for a PhD (noting that the only schools I to which I will apply will be ones that I would be happy to attend). If worst comes to worst, I will stay here for 1 more year to get a master’s degree and then move on from there (we have a combined program I think I could do). A PhD is a lot of work and the academic jobs are hard to get and don’t pay well, but I want the type of career that demands a doctorate. Thanks for everybody’s input!
But…that doesn’t make any sense statistically, @mathandcs. If the average admit rate is under 10% (by which I mean that 10% of applicants get into any PhD program) then by definition under 10% of people who apply to math programs will get into one. But even if we say that each PhD program has under a 10% admissions rate…rates aren’t additive like that.
Why? I’m not advocating that if people don’t get into a PhD program that they should go work at Google or Facebok. I’m saying that if they don’t get into a PhD program, and don’t want a master’s, that they should go work, in general. Not every workplace is as competitive to get into as Google or Facebook.
Working can also teach you lots of skills that are useful in graduate school. For example, in my field, it’s not uncommon for people to work at a think tank or government agency doing social science/health research for a year or two before grad school. Even if your job is partly unrelated, you still learn time management skills and such. Plus, given how competitive the academic market is, it’s always a good idea to have some industry experience in case one can’t obtain the preferred academic job.
Good luck to you @biochemgirl67! You have a pretty strong background and you’ll most likely get admitted to some top programs next year
That’s why you apply to a variety of schools, some above your perceived level, some at, some below. I’m aware the probability isn’t additive. But if you apply to 10 schools each with 10% admission rate, the probability of getting rejected everywhere is about 35%. This is still high, so you can apply to, say, 3 with 10%, 4 with 20%, 3 with 30%. Then you have a roughly 90% of getting in somewhere. Of course these numbers are made up, but they illustrate the point. Not everyone is Stanford material and Stanford or bust (for example) is a pretty stupid attitude to have, especially in today’s world.
If you’re saying only 10% of students get in somewhere, I say that’s absurd, and would only apply to students who have a serious problem in their applications, such as not applying to a wide enough selection of schools, or terrible recs or grades.
“Why? I’m not advocating that if people don’t get into a PhD program that they should go work at Google or Facebok. I’m saying that if they don’t get into a PhD program, and don’t want a master’s, that they should go work, in general. Not every workplace is as competitive to get into as Google or Facebook.”
And not every school is as competitive as Stanford or Harvard. If you can’t get into those schools, but you can get into Iowa State, that doesn’t mean you should go get a job instead.
