<p>D is HS senior and was accepted to several LACs and comprehensive universities. Will need to visit and meet the pre-health advisors at each school. She would like to eventually apply to dental school. I am trying to compile list of questions for her to ask these advisors. What else we should be doing/looking for to evaluate how strong those committees are? Your suggestions and advice are very appreciated.</p>
<p>Ask the school:</p>
<p>1) if it requires its health profession students to go thru a committee review process in order to receive letters of recommendation (aka a committee letter)</p>
<p>2) if yes, ask if there are any restrictions placed on students in order to receive one (minimum GPA or MCAT/DAT, for example. Or only the top 50% of requesters get letters. Or something.)</p>
<p>3) does the school restrict access to pre-med classes (some colleges require students to be approved and be formally enrolled in a pre-med/dent program in order to have access to pre-reqs)</p>
<p>4) ask how many full time pre-health professions advisors are on staff in the career center and what their training is</p>
<p>IMO, it’s waste of time and energy to ask for a school placement statistics since there are so many different ways of computing this. Schools massage their data six ways to Sunday.</p>
<p>Thanks, wayout! We are trying to compare two schools:
School A - urban, artsy, diverse, access to internships, volunteering, very laid back, very small % of pre-health students (like 5%). Does not have a medical school associated with it. There is pre-health advising committee of 9 members and they have special routine of obtaining letters, getting review, etc, but I don’t have any info about acceptance rates. D would be in the top 10% of her freshmen class.
School B - urban, access to internships, volunteering, very strong science, very competitive environment, ~40% pre-meds, there is med school there, hign acceptance rate to med schools. Committee with all established rules. D would be in the middle there academically.
Are there benefits to pick School A and be in less competitive environment and probably get better grades regardless of school’s pre-health reputation?</p>
<p>how can you guarantee you’ll get better grades at school A and be in the middle of the pack at school B?</p>
<p>the freshmen enrollement data puts my D in the middle or upper 10 % of incoming students. Better grades are not guaranteed anywhere, but probably more likely happened in smaller freshmen bio and chem classes? I am just guessing, please, express your opition and suggestions and correct me.</p>
<p>Something to keep in mind is that the serious pre-med or pre-dent students are going to be taking all the same classes your kiddo is regardless of where she goes. They will be strong students and there will be lots of competition for top grades regardless of where she goes, which is perplexing to a lot of people who think that (for example) Big State U is easy and full of kids who don’t take school seriously and major in communication. (I went to Big State U and came in with this mindset–boy was I wrong.)</p>
<p>Her competition isn’t going to be the dumb jocks or the art majors or the comm majors or whatever other easy stuff is out there. It doesn’t matter if she’s at the top of her class overall; it only matters if she’s at the top of her pre-dent classes, and those classes will inevitably be full of like-minded people. </p>
<p>If I were in your shoes, I’d take the idea that she’d be the top of her class because the competition is less at school A, and instead focus on the environment there. Less competition could be less stressful, but it can also lead to complacency on her part–academic stress, if managed well, isn’t a bad thing. What’s she looking for? Does she like the vibe of students and faculty and campus at A or B better? It sounds like she can’t go wrong with either, especially if the cost is similar. Check out one of the stickies about choosing a premed school for more thoughts. If cost is considerably different, and she is serious about dental school (which I imagine is quite expensive), choosing the least expensive option is a great idea because then she’ll have much less educational debt overall. </p>
<p>In regards to things to ask prehealth advisors:
(if there’s an honors college) how honors classes differ from regular classes
how many people apply to dental school each year (to get a feel for whether the pre-dent advisors have experience)
if there are seminar classes about being a preprofessional student (ie a 1-unit/hour class that goes over differences between degrees, requirements, extracurriculars, personal statements, advising, interviews, blah blah)
if there is a pre-dent club/organization/society
if there are peer advisors (or something similar) for the honors program or the pre-health advising dept that she can contact for more info (i personally think smart students are better info sources than advisors, but that’s just my bias, lol)</p>
<p>kristin has given you some great advice. </p>
<p>It doesn’t matter whether your D is on the middle 50% or the top 10%–the kids in her classes are all going to be smart and highly motivated. That’s just the way pre-professional pre-reqs classes are everywhere. She will be challenged at either school.</p>
<p>I would also tend to discount the presence or absence of a associated medical school, esp since she’s pre-dent. </p>
<p>She should choose the school she feels is the best “fit” for her–including which offers her the best financial aid. College isn’t just a slog toward professional school; it’s the next 4 years of her life–one where she will grow and develop, often in new and surprising directions. She should go to the college that offers her the best chance to do that.</p>
<p>Thanks to wowmom and kristin! My D doesn’t want to be in cutthroat environment. She does wants to be challenged and is not looking for easy As. Some stories that we heard from kids who go to undergrad schools on med schools campuses, with harsh curve, grade deflation, unaccessible professors, ‘friends’ who will hide your books/notes for the class before the test, so your grades will suffer. This is why I am asking if absense of med school would be a benefit. Thanks again</p>
<p>I think that largely depends on what school it is. My (midwest state school) undergrad also has the med school I now attend on the same campus. The competition was strong but not cutthroat; I thought the curves were fair; no grade deflation that I know of; some of my best mentors were undergrad science professors (orgo, gen chem, physiology); my friends from undergrad are some of the most brilliant folks I know; we all graduated with >3.7.</p>
<p>I’d be surprised if the presence of a SOM is the determining factor of the cutthroat-ness of the school, and I’d be a lot more inclined to think it was just a coincidence. Think about what kinds of students are giving her this info and what kind of university they’re attending. Are these Johns Hopkins premeds who think they deserve to go to Hopkins after going to Hopkins undergrad? A different private school, perhaps one known to have tons of premeds (eg Emory)? Are they bright kids who go to your state’s state school? Are they dumb kids who go to your state’s state school? Are they talking about the school she wants to go to? I think these would be good questions to think about.</p>
<p>It’s too early to know which med school she’ll attend (provided she applies), but you should know that her best chances for admission are to your state’s state school. This is often the least expensive bet too. Considering med school is the end goal, you might get on your state’s med school’s website and see if there are any email addresses of med students available for you to ask questions to. I’m currently one of those students for my school and I enjoy helping applicants and future applicants learn about my school. Maybe they could shed some light on the competitive nature of her potential undergrad.</p>
<p>kristin - thanks for such a quick reply and great info!
The advice was from WashU & Northwestern students (solid grades, scores, miserable undergrad experience, some switched career pathes from pre-med to something diff due to toxic environment). We are not even looking at that level of colleges. We are in IL with UIC and SIU being the only public schools with dental program. My D decided not to apply to either of them for undergrad for diff reasons. But she loves Chicago and would prefer to go to UIC for dental school rather then SIU. DePaul (School A) and Loyola Chicago (School B) are her current schools to choose from, plus LACs (Knox, Beloit, K-Zoo, Augustana). She received max merit aid everywhere and we are waiting on the whole fin aid packages from all schools.</p>
<p>Oh cool. Totally forgot she was dent and not med; in that case, read my previous post with some caution as I know literally nothing about dental school and am working off the assumption that premed and predent are similar, and that admission to dental school is competitive (I have a few friends in dental school).</p>
<p>I’m from MO and am quite familiar with WashU and Northwestern. My friends’ experience is quite similar to what you described, and it seems that these two are quite competitive. Both have top-ranked med schools attached, but I don’t know how much of a role that plays. I have friends at both of those med schools too; they seem to be more cutthroat than the undergrad counterparts. Perhaps these are just cutthroat places, LOL. </p>
<p>I have friends at DePaul (not premed) and Loyola (premed) and both seem happy there, for what it’s worth. One of my classmates went to Beloit and speaks very highly of his undergrad experience (I believe he was an athlete). I’ve heard of Knox, K-zoo, and Augustana but don’t know anyone there. </p>
<p>I like the idea of waiting on fin aid. My parents made finances a big priority and they were the deciding factor for my undergrad; I’m really glad they were, as I have practically no undergrad debt. Med school is expensive and loans are huge and real–making a solid financial decision is responsible, in my opinion. </p>
<p>A piece of unsolicited advice: if she doesn’t have a credit card, she should get one or two to start establishing credit before getting to dental school. I’d like to open another credit card (I see cars and houses and other expensive things in the next 5-10 years), but have found it thus far impossible with my high loans–my classmates have had similar problems (I think the only card any of us has been approved for over the past year has been a Gap card).</p>
<p>kristin - thanks! Pre-dent would be very similar to pre-med in terms of required classes, advising, prolly less competitive in terms of stats to get accepted. Few schools will have separate pre-dent advisors, like Augustana since they are sending many kids to U of Iowa dental school on agreement or prolly UIC too. We are very close to MO and D is in at Truman (best fin offer at the moment) and SLU (not enthus at the moment and on the same level as Loyola because of med school deal). I personally prefer small LAC for my D, but I can understand when you are ‘young and in Chicago’ concept as well. Thanks for credit card info. I am planning on getting her debit/credit with her checking account.</p>
<p>Awesome! As far as I can tell, the only downside to Truman is Kirksville (which is apparently the polar opposite of Chicago–a small town with a WalMart, LOL). There are many (8/100?) Truman grads in my class. Seems like they do a good job preparing kids for professional school, and my friends really liked it. I’d definitely pay another visit or two to Kirksville before deciding–I like small towns (currently in Columbia), and Kirksville’s too small for me.</p>
<p>I agree about Kirksville, and after our visit I was sure its off the list, but somehow D decided to apply because of very high reputation Truman has among local kids.</p>
<p>I dont think the presence of a med school impacts undergrad culture in terms of how cutthroat kids are.</p>
<p>thanks for great advices and info! I guess will just follow the $$ and ‘fit’.</p>