Teachers need to know now that you want a recommendation - it doesn’t mean that they complete them right away. It’s not about teachers being willing, it’s about allowing them to schedule their time (unless your kid’s rec is the only one they need to write - not the case at our school).
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I appreciate the advice, but in our case, I’m pretty sure it will be the only rec that they write over their career. That’s why I have been holding off. I’m afraid if I ask now they will just do them right away. Even if I ask them to hold off it’s probably 50/50 one of them submits early. I’m thinking about maybe talking to them right before Thanksgiving in case they want to use the extra time to do it, even though my guess is they do it at school since it is just one rec for them to write. I’m wondering, although I don’t know, if they may work together on them. She has 4 main teachers (not counting Spanish) that team teach all of her classes. So they may want to solicit input from each other, I’m not sure. They all have their subjects they are responsible for, but collaberate quite a bit on the overall process.
Actually, that brings up another thought: This will probably be the first recommendation for BS that they have ever been asked to write. Is there anything in particular I should tell the teachers or principal? They are completely unfamiliar with the process. I think they will be supportive of her, although they may be mildly annoyed that she is thinking about leaving. Our school system is pretty proud of itself and pretty protective.
Btw, I don’t really disagree with them that it is a good system, albeit one with some flaws. I just think it’s a poor fit for D25.
You used to be able to see the form the teachers are asked to fill out. I think now you have to start the application to see see this - @Calliemomofgirls would know. If my memory serves its mostly “circle the answer that applies” with a short free form comment area. So should be ok for non pros.
We were very much in your shoes when we did this too. I don’t know if it helped, but I did make an effort to tell teachers why we were considering BS (and was careful not to say it was because our district was not good. More along the lines of wanting things that our district couldn’t provide.) I also tried to explain what mattered to BS beyond scores and grades. I was hoping that by explaining it, they’d be supportive on recs. And honestly, no clue as to whether it made any difference. I think that kids coming from schools that understand the process get better recs ( when it’s not just rating the kid 1-5. ) But I feel your pain on this. We were definitely the only one requesting this is our year!
@gardenstategal I’m kind of hoping it plays out the same way the selective college things seem to play out for kids from our school.
350+ in each HS class, and probably on average 5 or less applying anywhere without essentially open admissions. I’m pretty sure our teachers don’t know how to write recs, and the counselors absolutely know less about the system than I do, so I assume their rec’s aren’t great either. I have looked at several HS profiles, ours is laughably simplistic and conveys very little real information compared to the others I have seen. Most kids don’t take AP tests, and those that do don’t tend to do well even among this group. My oldest 3 kids had the same 10 minute “where are you applying” meeting their senior year, which is 100% of the college guidance they get in 4 years. The school is set up to funnel kids to the non-selective state flagship, local directional U, and CC. Everyone else is somewhat on their own.
Yet I think most of the kids who are qualified and actually apply (2-3 a year) end up at places like Stanford, MIT, Duke and the Ivies. I think that our kids must be cut some additional slack, because when they see the school profile and the rec letters they know that our kids are not being adequately coached on how to build an application. So I think our kids are getting taken more as “diamond in the rough” picks rather than someone who’s app necessarily stands on its own against one from a HS that regularly sends a large number of kids to selective schools.
Idk, I could be wrong about that. But I know some of these kids well enough that I know what their apps look like, and they are by and large not apps that merit the success that they have. I am hoping that something similar happens for BS for D25. The schools will see that she is clearly not getting groomed for BS, and hopefully someone will be willing to take a chance on a diamond in the rough.
I know you can see the gateway rec forms without starting a file, because I saw them a month or two ago. Poked around until I found it. I don’t recall about SAO.
As for the schools not used to BS applications, and not being offended. I think it serves you well that it’s boarding school, not local schools. I think BS is such a different animal that you don’t really even need to get into all the offerings they have that local school doesn’t (which could potentially veer into unintended insult if someone is oversensitive? I might be wrong here.) The boarding experience is different enough to justify the move without hurting feelings I’m thinking.
Anyway, even if they haven’t done BS recs specifically, I would have a hard time believing they don’t know how to do student recommendations – so many programs require letters of recommendation of sorts. I mean even I have done a number recommendations for students for various things and I don’t even work in education. I think a scheduled 15 minute session, with a clear explanation of student purpose and goals, an explanation of the process (like the logistics of what they can expect – a link from Gateway will come in their email, etc etc…), plus any documentation you want to give, is enough background.
Our experience with public middle school support: The principal (who clearly did not know kiddo - he pronounced his name wrong at graduation), was very perfunctory. Forms will filled out just fine.
Teachers got why we were doing what we were doing (“we always lose the good ones”) because they are frustrated with the system they work within, and knew kiddo well enough to know he needed something different, and aren’t connected to the high school so a kid leaving doesn’t impact them. But they were overworked, so we made the recommendation job as easy as possible for them.
Parents though, especially those in the parent association who are devoted to the school district, were judge-y and offended. I learned quickly to not talk about it.
@CateCAParent I don’t expect a lot of pushback, although maybe a bit. I think in general they will have a hard time understanding why we don’t want to keep her in our system but also won’t torpedo her recs.
On the other hand, I am currently president of the HS athletic booster club. I anticipate getting quite a bit of flack from that group. Our family has been really active in supporting the HS, so we are kind of in those circles. I anticipate several disapproving conversations.
Although like I said on a different thread @CateCAParent started, when it comes to my kids I will make the decision that I think is best for them, and I truly, from the bottom of my heart, sincerely do not give a hoot about their opinion on the matter.
There’s a nice way to frame the decision… and then every other way.
I’ve seen parents burn the local school to the ground on the way out and it’s usually not prudent. Kids get sick, need to come home, finances change-- always better to take the high road.
The best I saw (involved parents, lovely and clearly gifted kid) was along the lines of “She decided she wanted to experiment with living in another part of the country-- and since we know how stubborn she is, we’ve decided not to explain to her that she’s wrong”. This made the whole “what do you mean she’s going to some rural town in New England instead of loving the Midwest like the rest of us” or the “what’s wrong with our school?” narrative go away…
I conduct a lot of references for my job-- and there is nothing wrong with a cheat sheet, especially for teachers who have TONS of admin work right now which has nothing to do with pedagogy (filling out forms on how many kids logged on to their Zoom?). If your D provides a cheat sheet with the right narrative, you won’t need to worry about the tone. BS admissions folks understand that not every teacher is familiar with the process.
@dadof4kids
If you get to have a parent interview with the BS you will be able to talk about the middle school dynamic and lack of teacher experience with recs. I know some schools seem to not be including parents on zoom interviews but not sure which are doing what.
I was asked at every interview why we were applying to BSs.
Thanks for the continued advice, it is much appreciated.
Cheatsheet for recs is a great idea. They do that at the HS, it is easy enough to do the same for her.
I do need to have some “standard” couple sentence explanation, both for the interviews and because I know that everyone from the MS that we need info or recs from will be asking why, and then if she gets in I bet we get asked 100 more times once this goes public. Right now I have a good 5 minute explanation, which doesn’t work.
The reality is that or LPS isn’t perfect, but overall it’s pretty good. My first 3 all got good educations and had good experiences there. In hindsight the oldest would have probably been better served at a smaller school, but I have no serious complaints. I’m still a big booster and fan of our LPS system. In fact, if she stays I’m seriously considering running for school board in 2 years.
I think the HS is a great school for 20% of kids (#2 and #3 for me) and a good school for 75% (my oldest). For 5%, it isn’t that it is a bad school, but it is a bad fit. That is my #4, which is the one we are talking about here. There are a lot of factors, and I will probably focus in on something non-controversial like doing better in small classes or something like that. It is a bunch of small things really. Overall I just think she would thrive in that environment, and she will tread water for the next 4 years if she stays here. Some of that is her/my fault, some the system. In some ways it feels like a Goldilocks size, which was great for my #2 and #3. But for her it is both too big and too small, just in different ways. Overall kids like her tend to be the ones that fall through the cracks in our system. I need to get that boiled down to a few sentences, and in a way that doesn’t sound like I’m complaining.
It isn’t you, it’s me. 
“We’ve loved our experience with the local public schools and our kids have really thrived. The youngest has wanderlust now that she’s seen her siblings grown and flown and since we’re itchy to turn her bedroom into a home gym, we’ve decided not to fight her on this”.
That’s for neighbors.
"We’ve loved our experience with the local public schools and have been particularly impressed and touched by the quality of the teaching staff and your commitment to making sure that every kid reaches his or her potential. Right now we’re exploring some “out of state” options just to make sure we’re giving this kid enough attention- as the “caboose” her needs sometimes fell through the parenting cracks.
For her teachers.
@blossom do you work in PR? 
Thanks for the good starting point, my final answer may end up looking pretty similar to that.
Here’s a general question for anyone. I have seen references to schools being “one strike”, “two strike”, “five strike”, etc. I kinda get what you mean by that, but not quite. I assume things like oversleeping class aren’t a strike in this context. On the other end of the spectrum, sexual assault probably is a one strike offense everywhere.
When you are talking about “strikes” what types of things are we talking about? This has come up more in the PM’s, but it feels like pretty consistent language that all of you are using. I’m just not sure quite what you are referring to.
It’s hard to generalize as each school has their own rules related to community standards and how violations are punished. Most schools do not give out “strikes” for missed classes, unless it becomes a habit.
Drug offenses, stealing, vandalism, smoking on campus, driving on campus, being somewhere they aren’t supposed to (i.e. girl in a boy’s room after hours), leaving campus without authorization, verbal / physical assault, bullying, cheating, etc. are all things that may result in a “strike.”
For example, at some schools, consequences for drug possession may be immediate dismissal (no strikes) while at others, it results in a strike plus counseling and parental notification.
Rules and consequences are usually spelled out in the Student Handbook so its worth reading that closely to get a sense of how tolerant a given school is.
Taken from our school handbook:
Rules that the School considers particularly important for the well-being of the individual and the community are categorized as Major School Rules. These represent the most important standards of our community: honesty, safety/health, and respect for others. Our disciplinary system tries to balance what is best for the individual
student with what is best for the community. Students who violate our Major School Rules will be subject to disciplinary sanctions ranging from restriction of privileges to dismissal. Recognizing that adolescents sometimes use poor judgment or make impulsive bad decisions, [this school] is generally a “two-strike” school; in most
situations, students are given the opportunity to learn from their mistakes. However, egregious offenses, including those that hurt or endanger the community, may result in suspension, or even expulsion, for first offenses.
Major school rule violations tend to be for drinking, using drugs, leaving the dorm past check in, cheating etc.
Better yet, here are all the major rules defined:
THE MAJOR SCHOOL RULES
- A student must respect the rights and property of others. Our community does not tolerate bullying, hazing, harassment of another person, theft, or abuse of personal or community property.
- A student must be honest. Lying, cheating, plagiarizing, or any other type of deceitful behavior is unacceptable at [school].
- A student must remain substance free. Using, possessing, or distributing drugs(prescription or nonprescription) or alcohol, distributing vaporizers or nicotine agents, or hosting a party at which drugs or alcohol are used is prohibited. (Note: If drugs or alcohol are found on a student, in a student’s room, or if a student tests positive for illegal substances, whether or not it can be demonstrated that the substance was used on campus, the student is considered in violation of a Major School Rule.)
- A student must protect the health and safety of the School community.
Tampering with fire safety equipment, smoking, or using fire in any School building in an area not specifically designated for that purpose is unacceptable, and unauthorized weapons or dangerous combustibles or explosives are prohibited on campus. - A student must abide by the School’s rules regarding permissions and signingout. Leaving the House after check in without proper authorization and leaving campus without required permission are Major School Rule violations, as is unauthorized presence in a School building.
- A student must abide by the School’s motor vehicle rules. Boarders may not keepor operate a motor vehicle at [school] or in its environs, or ride in a car without proper authorization; day students may not drive another student without proper authorization.
- A student must meet community expectations and the high standard of
citizenship expected of a [school student]. Violations of general expectations for proper conduct, including repeated failure to attend classes and other required commitments, comprise a Major School Rule violation. - A student must abide by federal, state, and local laws. Enrollment at
[school] constitutes a student’s acceptance of these regulations as the guiding principles for proper conduct. Moreover, the School, in its sole discretion, may take such action as it believes is in the best interest of the School.
@one1ofeach really?? I was asked this maybe once or twice, but I’ve just hit over 20 interviews…especially with DD we have not been asked this.
Ok, here is a recap of where we are and the plan going forward. As always, I welcome people shooting holes in my plan. If I knew everything, I wouldn’t be here asking for help. So if you think it sounds like I’m on the wrong track, please speak up. I guess if you think things sound good, I’d love a bit of feedback that direction too.
The list, in order of admission %:
Fountain Valley
Cushing
George
Pomfret
Stevenson
Kent
Millbrook
Mercersburg
Williston
NMH
Loomis
Berkshire
St Andrews DE
Brooks
Taft
Blair
Cate
Canterbury
Suffield
Governors
Thacher
Pretty good chance she applies to most/all of the ones above the line. Everyone takes the SAO app. The ones below I think she still interviews with but might not apply. Overall all we still like them but there is something that places it below the others.
I’m thinking she should try to interview with those 4 ASAP to get a bit of experience down, since they are lower choices (although still in the ballpark and if the interview goes well maybe she would apply) then start tackling the 17 above the line, not sure really what order or if it matters. My guess is that a couple get knocked out still for various reasons that come up during the process and she ends up with around 15 apps. As a reminder, the reason she is going to apply to so many is that we need substantial FA for this to work. I’m guessing that will limit our choices a bit.
This week put together a resume and try to put together “her story”. Watch a couple more interview Zooms that are recorded online. At least sketch out where we think we are going with the questions on the SAO app. Do a bit of practice interviewing with me. I think these things are good to do before the interview so she can be a bit more comfortable and try to get forcused on the message she is presenting.
Then continue to work on the app and start plugging away at the interviews for the next 2 months. We are still in person at school, so that is going to make the interviews a bit tougher. I’m hoping that we can get some weekend/evening ones scheduled but I don’t know how that works. Any days she has off from school we probably need to do a couple. I hate to do more than 2/day because I don’t want her to get schools mixed up during the interview.
SSAT as of right now I’m leaning pretty hard away from doing. I really hate standardized tests anyway, and hate to devote enough time to it for it to be helpful. However, she is barely top 10% at an unknown school (mostly A/A+ with a few A-), so maybe she needs that score so they feel more comfortable about her academic abilities. I would love feedback here.
Thanks.
In my neck of the woods, I have seen that students from Asia have bee coming, paying full price, and taking seats even in the private day schools, Catholic high schools, etc. There are people in Asia whose business it is to get these kids full-fare seats at the private schools, from Exeter right down to local Catholic high schools, and for the day schools, they find them homes to board in. I’ve seen that the local kids are NOT getting into the boarding/day schools as easily, since the schools are taking some kids from Asia. Now, with the pandemic, this could all be quite different! I doubt that any kids could come in from Asia this September, so those who hadn’t stayed for the summer cannot come back, and those who were supposed to start in September, probably couldn’t get in. Those seats are probably going now to US kids. So this definitely could lead to a less-competitive application season this year for boarding schools.
I went to a small non-sectarian private day school that was better academically than most public schools, but if you were anything outside the cheerleader/athlete phenotype, it was misery. I only wonder if the Lord of the Flies social atmosphere could be far worse at boarding school. Remember Mitt Romney’s horrendous bullying and assault of a gay classmate at Cranbrook? I don’t think that he could have gotten away with this at a public school, even in that time. Has she done well at sleep away camps? Been happy there? I think that would be a good predictor of how she might do at boarding school. If she’s never gone to sleep away camp, then I don’t think that boarding school is a good idea for her.