Complicated Family Situation

Paying for College
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<p>Well, we don’t think you are “rich” anything, just that this is what college costs, now. It’s not like you are the only one. Here we all are together. Many of us are full pay with kids who got merit awards (My family), and some are getting full ride merit rides. And some are going instate.</p>

<p>Illinois, where I live, is worse than California.</p>

<p>But, cheer up. Retirement isn’t very good for you, anyway.</p>

<p>Google: retirement unhealthy, and you will find all the recent studies that show it increases risks for depression and health problems.</p>

<p>Good luck. The sooner you stop feeling sorry for yourself, the sooner you can get your kid to apply to some of the schools she can get awards.</p>

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<p>*I know you all think I’m a rich lawyer, but I’m not. Wiped out by divorce and keeping up with taxes, mortgage ($60k/yr for a modest 3-bdrm tract house), health insurance ($24k/yr), car loans and insurance and gas, life insurance, orthodontics, utilities, food, clothing, paying back my dad, and raising 4 teen girls… Yeah, if I lived in Texas, West Virginia, or North Dakota, and made what I make, I’d probably be rich. But I don’t. If I had an extra $30k, 60k, 90k, or 120k per after expenses it would already be in the bank. It’s not.</p>

<p>So it looks like I will spend the next 10 years squeezed financially or going into further debt to get my kids through college. By then I will be 65 with no retirement, of course, because there certainly won’t be anything left over for that. I already told my wife that I’ll probably have to work until the day I die. Sorry to sound so maudlin. Thanks for all the advice.*</p>

<p>Ok, you know your situation. So, stop digging in your heels and deal with your situation. Make lemonade out of lemons. Sit your Ds down and tell them that you don’t have the money for pricey schools. Tell them what you can pay for and tell them if they want to go somewhere that’s more expensive then they need HUGE merit. Let them know that now. </p>

<p>Don’t let D1 get her heart set on schools like Tufts, G’town, etc. That will just set her up for having the rug pulled out once you can’t afford those schools. Anything less than those schools will seem to be too much of a let down. </p>

<p>You’re an atty. You should be used to preparing people for possible bad news or various outcomes. You should be used to advising people on how to improve their chances to have the best possible outcome.</p>

43

<p>Add’l facts: Bio mom lives 1.5 hours away, so D1 commuting to current HS is not an option. And yes, bio mom would then demand child support and with my income, that would be a lot. D1 living with bio mom is not an option in any event because she would refuse. D1 is in my custody for a reason. Changing schools for her sr. year to save a few bucks is out of the question. In short, that whole line of attack is a non-starter. But thanks for trying.</p>

<p>Also, I appreciate the suggestions about “family austerity.” However, a major reduction in current standard of living to pay for MY kids’ college when HERS is going to CC is not likely to be well received by current wife (who thought she was marrying a rich lawyer, after all), and I can ill afford ANOTHER divorce.</p>

<p>Momofthreeboys: correct me if I"m wrong, but WUE is the reciprocity program where certain western state U’s will give CA residents the in-state tuition rate, yes? I’ll look into that but I’m not sure it will save much. My guess is that I’ll probably be back to $30k/year, which seems to be the magic number.</p>

44

<p>You can run your own FAFSA numbers here:</p>

<p><a href=“http://ifap.ed.gov/efcformulaguide/attachments/091312EFCFormulaGuide1314.pdf[/url]”>http://ifap.ed.gov/efcformulaguide/attachments/091312EFCFormulaGuide1314.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Some FAFSA schools will add back in the depreciation and other deductions, but review this and you can determine if there is any reason to worry about timing and FAFSA hoops. This would be for UCs and FAFSA privates.</p>

<p>There are many schools of thought on reducing FAFSA assets, like take cash from savings and pay off home loans, but the issue is that those recommendations can be counter-productive for the CSS Profile and can simply results in illiquidity with noadditional grant aid. To obtain Pell, the EFC would need to be less than $5500, to obtain Cal Grants or Blue & Gold, you can check the AGI required, but I think it is less than $90k and there are asset restrictions, too. At least determine what would be likely for your family.</p>

45

<p>You need to have her apply to at least one or two automatic full-rides or full-tuitions scholarships.<br>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Did she happen to make NMF? Look at Bama for their assured academic scholarships. Look at some competitive full-tuition/full-rides as well.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Unfortunately, it sounds like your D, through no fault of her own, will simply not be able to afford those schools, if it’s impossible to make it work financially. Better to have figured it out this time jr year than this time senior year, and start redoing your list of schools. Have a honest, down-to-earth talk with your D, and have her start looking at other schools. Case only gives a couple full-tuition (that are like lottery tickets). </p>

<p>My generous merit from them seemed like a lot (30.5k/yr), but it was still unaffordable. When looking at scholarships, look at what’s left over. There are some competitive full-rides at state schools too- look into the Wells Scholarship at Indiana University. With four to get through college, the decisions won’t be easy, but they’ll be necessary.</p>

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<p>For the years when you have multiple kids in college, you might qualify for some financial aid, so it may be worth doing FAFSA at least for those years.</p>

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</p>

<p>Such a school meets the following criteria:</p>

<ul>
<li>Student will be admitted for sure.</li>
<li>Cost is guaranteed to be affordable at list price, or with automatic-for-stats merit scholarships. (Your situation makes need-based financial aid uncertain at best, so the determination of affordability based on need-based financial aid cannot be counted on.)</li>
<li>School has suitable courses and curricula for the student’s academic goals.</li>
<li>Student likes the school.</li>
</ul>

47

<p>Doesn’t the University of Arizona or Arizona State have some big scholarships for merit?</p>

<p>And an excellent honors school?</p>

<p>Some of the southern states have good OOS merit awards. Ole Miss does, I think.</p>

<p>Also, University of Wyoming is cheap and a really great mid size school. Highly underrated for how good a school it is and how much oil and gas money they have gotten over the years. Their Engineering schools are excellent.</p>

48

<p>DGDzDad -</p>

<p>The learning curve on this is very steep, so it is entirely understandable that you feel overwhelmed right now! But go look yourself in the mirror, and tell that handsome, smart guy that he is way ahead of the game. Every single year parents not unlike yourself find their way to the Financial Aid Forum only after their beloved children have been accepted to dream colleges that have proven to be unaffordable. Here is a thread started by one of them two years ago: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1121952-fafsa-efc-47k.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1121952-fafsa-efc-47k.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Like you dumbparent had a child who had all of the qualifications for a number of tip-top institutions. And like you, dumbparent ran up against the real-life issues of financial aid and family finance. If you read through the thread, you can see how dumbparent worked through the issues, and came to solutions that would work for his/her family.</p>

<p>Clearly you are a dedicated father and stepfather. You and your wife have four daughters to finish raising, and to educate. You have had certain dreams for each of them, and it is hard to accept that not all of those dreams may be achievable. Spend the time needed with your wife to come up with a financial strategy that will work for the two of you. Let all four of the girls know what the college budget will be like. Those young ladies aren’t dumb. They certainly must see that your house/car/wardrobe/etc. is not as fancy as others’. They almost certainly recall the struggles both you and your wife experienced in your divorces. And they do know that their other parents are missing in action. You needn’t lay your entire financial picture bare, but your daughters certainly can comprehend that money will be an issue for their educations.</p>

<p>Knowing what is available for each of them, all of you can begin to sort through the approximately 4,000 colleges/universities in this country and find at least one place for each of them that will be affordable for your family with no more than federal student loans, that offers the major that daughter is interested in, where that daughter is absolutely guaranteed admissions based on her GPA and test scores, and where she can be happy if all else fails in the admissions process. Just one dead-on safety can be enough. Anywhere else that admits her, and that proves to be affordable, is gravy. Two excellent old threads discussing that type of strategy are:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/148852-what-ive-learned-about-full-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/148852-what-ive-learned-about-full-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Wishing you all the best!</p>

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<p>poetgrl- UofA scholarships: <a href=“https://financialaid.arizona.edu/node/305[/url]”>https://financialaid.arizona.edu/node/305&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Looks like they offer up to 15k for non-residents and 30k for Nat’l Merit. COA for non-residents is 47k. If the D is a NMF, that’s doable.</p>

<p>ASU has a scholarship calculator here: <a href=“https://students.asu.edu/scholarships/estimator[/url]”>https://students.asu.edu/scholarships/estimator&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>University of Arizona has been doing some pretty heavy recuiting last year and touting their honors college.</p>

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<p>"Don’t let D1 get her heart set on schools like Tufts, G’town, etc. That will just set her up for having the rug pulled out once you can’t afford those schools. Anything less than those schools will seem to be too much of a let down. "</p>

<p>In total agreement. I’ve started that conversation with D1 and she took it quite well. Said she probably won’t get in anyway. Knows they are reach schools. The only reason we even started down that path was the vague offers of “help” from wealthy maternal GPs (bio mom’s parents) and their encouragement to her to apply to such schools. That whole issue is covered exhaustively on another thread so I won’t repeat it here. Suffice it to say that their “help” is apparently not as much as intimated and has so many strings attached, emotional baggage, and intra-family conflict surrounding it that I was hoping to avoid involving them in the process and do this on my own, as was suggested by many wise and kind posters. If D1 gets into one of those schools and really wants to attend, we may have to go grovelling back to the GPs. Argh.</p>

51

<p>There are FAFSA merit schools you could consider, for example, Baylor COA is $51K, they offer:</p>

<p>Regents’ Gold Scholarship
Baylor provides a full tuition academic scholarship to National Merit Finalists who select Baylor as their first choice college. Further, the Regents’ Gold Scholarship is augmented by the recipients’ SAT* or ACT score.
SAT* Score ACT Score Amount divided over 8
undergraduate semesters Amount
per Academic Year
1500 + 36 $36,574
1400-1490 33-35 $35,574
1300-1390 30-32 $34,574
Below 1300 29 and below $32,574
Renewal of this scholarship each year is contingent upon maintaining a cumulative Baylor grade point average of at least 3.5.</p>

52

<p>For Whitworth, with a $45k COA:</p>

<p>reshman Scholarships</p>

<p>Whitworth Academic Scholarship Program for Incoming 2013-14 Freshmen
(Including Running Start Students)
Mind & Heart Scholarship: $20,000 per year ($80,000 over 4 years)
3.75 GPA AND 2020 SAT<em>/30 ACT
Presidential Scholarship: $17,500 per year ($70,000 over 4 years)
4.0 GPA OR
3.75 GPA AND 1870 SAT</em>/28 ACT
Trustee Scholarship: $15,000 per year ($60,000 over 4 years)
3.9 GPA OR
3.6 GPA AND 1800 SAT<em>/27 ACT
Whitworth Scholarship: $12,500 per year ($50,000 over 4 years)
3.5 GPA OR
1720 SAT</em>/25 ACT</p>

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<p>Ummm, if your financial situation was as bad as you described after your divorce, shouldn’t she have known that before marrying you? Plus, with four total kids approaching college age (even the one going to CC could still transfer to a more expensive four year school later), shouldn’t she have known that a lifestyle of spending all current income would be unsustainable? In addition, if the employment and income prospects of law are as dire as hinted by your partner’s inability to sell his share and other news articles about the subject indicate, that is another reason to reset your family’s spending habits to something more sustainable long term.</p>

<p>Seems like you need to have an honest “money talk” with your wife as well as the kids.</p>

54

<p>Even better known schools like USC offer something, I don;t know the current requirement, but DDs good friend in HS with 1500+ got a tuition award offer, did not take it, but went HYPS instead, DD, with slightly lower SAT did not get that award and we could not afford that school, but if you are one of the lucky ones, the tuition award could help.</p>

<p>USC Merit Scholarships</p>

<p>Administered through the Office of Admission, USC Merit Scholarships require students to apply for admission to the University by the December 1 deadline. All students who meet the December 1 deadline will be automatically considered for a scholarship.</p>

<p>Ranging in value from a few thousand dollars up to full tuition, merit scholarships are awarded based on academic excellence, leadership, service and talent. These include the full-tuition, four-year Mork Family and Trustee scholarships, the half-tuition Presidential Scholarship, and the one-quarter tuition Deans Scholarship.</p>

55

<p>Barrett at ASU is the honors program I think you are referring to. University of Alabama has an honors program that offers a full tuition scholarship to kids with a 32 ACT (or did).</p>

<p>OP, I was going to lead you to the epic thread on schools that offer good merit aid. I see you found it already. Really do yourself a favor and focus some of your and your daughter’s efforts on finding some of those schools that she might like. I know she has “ivy dreams” like so many kids but IMO you would be wasting your time on those schools–both because they would be unaffordable and also because she would be unlikely to get in. A lot of us are only familiar with “prestige” schools when we start the search, because those are the best-known. But there are literally dozens of places where she could be intellectually stimulated with like-minded peers and find opportunities that might not be as easy to get in the most intensely competitive environments.</p>

56

<p>happymomof1: thanks for the great, uplifting advice.</p>

<p>poetgrl and purpleacorn: thanks for the UofA tip - I’m an alum, so she’d have legacy to boot! But D1 hates hot weather and she’s so much smarter and accomplished than I was at her age. I always dreamed she’d go to a better college than me!</p>

57

<p>Well, it is a better school than you went to, now. ;)</p>

<p>Aren’t they all?</p>

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<p>You seem to be living proof that it doesn’t matter where you go to college. Successful people come from many backgrounds. And your incredibly wealthy ex-in-laws didn’t stop their daughter from marrying you.</p>

59

<p>“I always dreamed she’d go to a better college than me!”</p>

<p>Dealing with this is key to resolving all of your issues.</p>

<p>Points to consider as you work toward that resolution include:

  1. Your dream is not necessarily her dream.<br>
  2. As pointed out by others, U of A as you recall it may barely resemble the real U of A at present - and it is quite likely that U of A now is “better” than in the past. There are plenty of good state-Us out there.<br>
  3. What you consider to be “a better college” may not be remotely applicable for your daughter’s career goals: the best place for her goals could be some no-name institution where that particular major or program is unusually strong.
  4. No matter how good the program, if it is unaffordable for the family, it is unaffordable. Period. Kick it to the curb and move on.
  5. There are four daughters total in your household. By concentrating on the perceived needs of D1, you risk overlooking the very real needs of the other three. The lives of all four of these young ladies are in the balance. Do not allow the appearance of favoring one over the others as the GPs do.</p>
60

<p>better known schools like USC offer something, I don;t know the current requirement, but DDs good friend in HS with 1500+ got a tuition award offer, did not take it, but went HYPS instead</p>

<p>That’s 1500+ SAT of the Math + Cr score only. That would be a 2300+ SAT. Usually, schools that give merit only use the M+CR to determine merit scholarships. USC is getting more difficult. My friend’s D had a 35 ACT and was Val of her very good high school and got NO merit from USC. She went to MIT instead.</p>

<p>The OP asked what a Financial Safety is. It’s a school that meets the following:</p>

<p>1) nearly 100% chance of acceptance based on stats.</p>

<p>2) enought ASSURED merit scholarship money based on stats that you can afford to pay the rest out of family funds and/or small federal student loan.</p>

<p>3) Has the major</p>

<p>4) student likes it and will attend the school.</p>

<p>Forget about dreams of kids going to “better schools.” My kids each went to a flagship public. One got accepted to an elite school’s PhD program, and the other is going to med school in August. “Good schools” can get your kids where they need to go. </p>

<p>Yes, you do have to be VERY aware of the fact that all of your daughters’ (3 of them) education may crimp your household budget and annoy your new wife since her D will be going a much cheaper route. That’s definitely a big issue. It doesn’t matter if it’s right or wrong. It’s a challenge that MANY blended families face. </p>

<p>A friend of mine faced the same thing. Her “smart kids” and his “average” kids. They compromised and the “smart kids” leveraged their talents and accepted big merit scholarships at an OOS flagship. Her oldest is now in vet school. Her second child will be applying to med schools. Peace and harmony in the family because her “smart kids’” education didn’t hog the family budget.</p>

<p>Schools like UArizona (in your case) or UAlabama (as in my kids’ case) are NOTHING like they were 20 or even 10 years ago. Today’s schools have poured millions (sometimes billions) of dollars into state of the art buildings, labs, dorms, libraries, etc.</p>

<p>How did your D do on the PSAT? Any chance that she’ll be a NMSF/NMF? If so, big money there. My older son had a free ride as a NMF. Younger son had nearly a free ride.</p>