Composition Major

<p>Can someone give me the best top 10 schools for a composition major?</p>

<p>That's a really difficult question to answer. It really depends on many factors: what style do you want to write in? What kind of instrumental groups would you like to write for? Who do you want to study with? Furthermore and most importantly, what environment do you want to be in? Conservatory setting or university setting? </p>

<p>Unfortunately, art is harder to judge than science. </p>

<p>Give me a few more solid criteria and I'll give you some answers and recommendations. </p>

<p>Anyone can say "Oh Juilliard has great faculty" but honestly, that's the worst kind of answer you can get. I really need to know what your background is.</p>

<p>Style: Classical
Instruments that I want to write for: All kinds; voice, orchestra, solos, duets, ensemble, etc. Since i want to go into classical compositon, instruments like electric guitars or drumsets(not percussion!!) are not exactly my type. It would be great if they teach me some skills to write for those instruments but it's not necessary. I think if I really wanted to write songs for those instruments, I can learn it on my own.
Who do I want to study with: I have NO idea. I don't have any specific faculties whom I would like to study with. As long as they are "good."
Environment: I prefer conservatories but universities like John Hopkins or New School have a conservatory-like music department(Peabody and Mannes). I would count those universities with conservatory-like music departments as "conservatories"</p>

<p>I already know famous places, for example, Juilliard, Mannes, Peabody, New England Conservatory, Boston Conservatory, Oberlin, Curtis, San Francisco Conservatory, and Indiana Bloomington. I guess you can just tell me out of all those schools, which ones don't have a great composition department, or that you don't suggest. Also, if there are other colleges that have an excellent composition department that i don't know about, please do tell me.
Thank you so much for helping me :)</p>

<p>Ithaca has a fairly well known composition department with Dana Wilson and even though it is part of a larger college, it was founded as a conservatory and those who go there still say it has a conservatory feel compared to other college music departments.</p>

<p>How much contemporary music are you familiar with?
Classical as you know is a very problematic term. What do you mean by classical? Do you mean Mahler-ish music or Mozatian?
Or do you mean ultra-modernist contemporary music? If you hate Schoenberg, chances are there are schools you'd want to go to and places where you don't want to go to. </p>

<p>If you don't care, and are open to all sorts of influences, then you'll have a better time choosing schools. What year of high school are you in and how much composition experience have you had by now? Do you study with someone currently? </p>

<p>Best,
E</p>

<p>PS...this information may be helpful to others as well. However, if you want, you can send me a private message and we'll keep in touch with email then if you want to.</p>

<p>i don't know what u mean by Mahler-ish music, Mozatian, or ultra-modernist contemporary music. i guess it doesn't matter a lot. Can you tell me what those are though.</p>

<p>I'm a sophomore(16 years old) in high school. i'm having private comosition lessons 2 hours a week. It's been year and a half since i started taking composition lesson. I took piano lessons ever since I was five years old. I still take piano lessons 1 hour a week. Recently my piano teacher suggested that I major in piano so my skill in piano is very high. I don't know if you know this thing called Certificate of Merit. It's basically a piano competition with music theory. I did this every year. Because of that, i studied music theory for 6 years. I think my music theory knowledge improved much more when i began to take composition lesson. We learned things like writing in four voices with all the music theory rules applied. I also played violin for more than 7 years. I participate in many competitions and concerts both piano and violin. My teachers are very supportive of that. :) My parents and I decided that I extend composition lesson from 2 hours a week to 4 hours a week. We'll probably start that from this summer.</p>

<p>I hope that's enough information :)</p>

<p>I think what E is getting at is that the term "classical" is an extremely nebulous one, as it could be used as it probably should, to describe music of the classical era, such as Mozart or Haydn, or it could be used in the more popular manner describing all non-popular, non-jazz, generally orchestral music. Also, sometimes it is used to differentiate what is considered to be more traditionalist, tonal music from modernist, atonal stuff, or just between pre-20th century and everything since the turn of the century.</p>

<p>In other words, do you want to write music in the style of Mozart (i.e. in the style of the Classical Era)? Do you want to write music that might be considered to be more traditional when compared to radical modernism, but is certainly far from the Classical Era in terms of style (Gustav Mahler, as an already-provided example, was Post-Romantic), or would you be interested in "Modernist" composers like Iannis Xenakis or John Cage? Basically, what composers do you like?</p>

<p>Tanque thanks for the explanation.
What I mean by classical is traditional music.
I think studying compositions from Haydn, Mozart and other composers would help me write music very well but I don't necessarily want to specialize in "The Classical era style compositon" :)
I also don't want to specialize in "modern composition." For example, I don't want to major in jazz composition. Places like Berklee School of Music is not for me.</p>

<p>Typically, "modern composition" doesn't mean jazz or rock. Rather, it has a very specialized meaning in a conservatory. Everything you compose/write is going to be "modern," in a sense because it's written today. A piece written in the 'style' of Chopin probably means something very different today than when Chopin wrote it.
During school, you may come across assignments asking you to compose "in the style of" some period, such as a Mozart or Haydn string quartet. </p>

<p>But is that imitation or composition?
What is original composition?</p>

<p>Okay, those are good questions to think about but can you just tell me what colleges you suggest?</p>

<p>I really don't know what schools to tell you to consider. All the schools you've listed (Juilliard, Mannes, Peabody, New England Conservatory, Boston Conservatory, Oberlin, Curtis, San Francisco Conservatory, and Indiana Bloomington) have interesting composers on the faculty. But Curtis is very different than Oberlin. Why? Because Curtis has composers who write in a more conservative, orchestral style while Oberlin is more cutting edge and experimental. I'm not saying that what you write will end up being like what your teachers composer; however, each school does lend itself towards different types of composers and frankly, without knowing your goals better than "I want to compose," it's hard for me to give you good advice. </p>

<p>From your background, (I'm guessing you haven't heard much contemporary music before...though correct me if I'm wrong) I'd strongly suggest going to a school where you will be exposed to such music ASAP. Oberlin would be a good choice. On the downside, most composers who enter Oberlin already have a pretty good background in this repertoire.
You could go to Curtis (which may be closer to what you currently compose), but then you probably won't learn much about Cage, Xenakis, Ligeti etc. because the composers are more conservative. Certainly Jennifer Higdon (who teaches at Curtis) is known for being slightly antagonistic towards the ideas of Cage. With that said, that doesn't mean you can't learn a lot from her. </p>

<p>Lots of issues to think about. Have you asked your composition teacher for advice? He might be a better place to start than an online message board, since he knows your composition style, your goals, your interests etc. better than I do. </p>

<p>Furthermore, consider the area you will be in. Schools in New York will give you access to a variety of professional concerts while a school like Oberlin may only give you access to one or two professional groups' (Cleveland Orchestra) concerts to attend. </p>

<p>There's a reason why there are no lists of music school rankings...at least reliable ones. Everything is subjective.</p>

<p>WOW so Oberlin is a place for contemporary composition like Cage?
I researched some information on Cage and he's the one who composed 4'33.
I don't want my composition study be based on that composition(or a silence more likely)
I'm not very radical. I want to compose traditionally.
Also, I don't think Curtis is one for me either if they are too strict about being traditional.
Can you tell me some information about all the colleges that I listed and also Eastman?
I just want some information that's all :)</p>

<p>Kevin, </p>

<p>I think what people are trying to say is that, while we can tell you things about certain schools, ultimately it is up to you to decide which aspects are important and which are not. We do not know you well enough to know what "good" means to you. </p>

<p>My advice is not to rely on second-hand opinions. Ditching Curtis and Oberlin before having heard some pieces written by the composition teachers there would be a mistake in my opinion. Do some first-hand research. Find out who is teaching composition at various schools and listen to their works. Send them some email telling them a little bit about yourself and asking why they did things the way they did. Find the ones whose work you respect and who can explain things to you in a way that you understand. Remember that your tastes are likely to change a bit over the next several years as you learn more music theory and are exposed to compositions that you have never heard before. You really have to make your own top-10 list because it is different for everyone.</p>

<p>I realize that this involves a lot of work, but that work will position you as a much stronger candidate for admission and will give you some insights as to which pieces from your portfolio to submit with your application to each school. (Hint: you do not have to submit the same pieces to each school and it can be to your advantage to know the tastes of the primary decision makers at each one.)</p>

<p>BassDad, I absolutely agree with what you are saying, regarding doing your own research. Unfortunately, (as you are probably aware), composition departments and music departments in general have a lot of politics, stylistic biases, cultures etc. that you will not be able to find any 'official' information on. This info often has to come from second-hand sources--which may of course become distorted as all rumors do. </p>

<p>With that said, Kevin, do listen to the compositions of various composers at various schools. </p>

<p>You will eventually find out that it's not that people are strict about forcing you to write traditional music or experimental music. It's just that different schools have different 'cultures,' and that's a result of both the faculty and your fellow students. </p>

<p>Otherwise, BassDad's advice is very, very good.</p>

<p>Ok thanks for the advice but i was asking if you could give me those second hand informations of schools.
"I just want some information that's all :)"
Because this is part of my research. I started this thread to get those informations anyways.
If you can't give me infos, it's fine :)</p>

<p>I'm currently a composition major at NEC. NEC has a very fine composition department (current faculty is Michael Gandolfi, Malcolm Peyton, John Malia, Pozzi Escot, Robert Cogan, and John Heiss. Lee Hyla also teaches this year, but he will be leaving the school next year to begin teaching at Northwestern - his replacement will be named in the next few months). The conservatory itself is one of the best in the country right now, with a particularly strong string department. The unique thing about NEC's composition department, is that it is one of the most diverse departments I have ever seen. The teachers all write different music to begin with, but they also encourage their students to write in a variety of styles and not necessarily do as they do. You should look into NEC in another year or two.
As for the other schools on your list, here is what I know about them:
Juilliard - good school, though maybe not as good as everyone seems to think it is. The faculty is, of course, full of big names and their students are excellent. However, it should always be remembered when dealing with Juilliard (and Curtis) that they have the name recognition to attract the most outstanding students. This reflects less on the quality of the education and more on the quality of the name.</p>

<p>Mannes - see for yourself, but I didn't get a good impression of Mannes. Their faculty seemed very nice, but it seemed to be a very conservative (and maybe a bit boring) department. There's also a very strong focus on music theory. The conservatory itself is not particularly good. </p>

<p>Peabody - I have good friends at Peabody, and I hear a lot of mixed reviews. The faculty is good, although not great. Baltimore is a terrible place. The overall Peabody experience seems to be generally mediochre. </p>

<p>Boston Conservatory - Avoid. BoCo is a bad school with a generally sub-par faculty. Those faculty members who teach at other Boston schools (NEC, BU, etc) are just trying to make extra income and are not necessarily devoted to the students or the school. We have had a steady stream of BoCo refugees entering the NEC composition department over the past few years. Many of them are excellent composers, but they have nothing but bad things to say about their BoCo experiences.</p>

<p>Oberlin - Decent department, but (as mentioned) very avant garde. The school itself is excellent but its location is dreadful.</p>

<p>Curtis - A good school, but out of reach for most people. You should apply next year and maybe the year after (as a junior and senior), but if you don't get in after that you shouldn't bother with them. It seems to be very difficult for composers over the age of 18 to be admitted for undergrad study. I've always gotten the impression that Curtis is not necessarily looking for the best student: they're looking for the best, YOUNGEST student. Also, their composition department has always struck me as being unnecessarily conservative.</p>

<p>San Francisco Conservatory - Avoid for the time being. This school is in transition. In years past their composition department was less than stellar. This may be changing, but it will take some time and some new faculty for that to happen.</p>

<p>Indiana Bloomington - I don't know much. Big school, good teachers. That's about all I know.</p>

<p>You might look into Yale. I know several very good composers how have done undergrads at Yale. Even though the music department is technically graduate only, lessons and opportunities are avilable to undergrad composers.</p>

<p>Hey MahlerSnob....do you know Julia Carey?</p>

<p>I do know Julia, though I haven't seen her in a while. I was at BUTI with her a few years ago.</p>

<p>This subject is of great interest to me. My youngest S is a sophomore in high school but has been composing seriously for many years. In my spare time I've been trying to research the culture of the composition departments at conservatories, music schools within universities, and as a BA in a regular university/college program. I've embarked on most of the strategies suggested, but it is still quite difficult to get a sense of the politics and culture of the departments from afar.</p>

<p>The description of NEC is most similar to what we're looking for - somewhere open minded, embracing all sorts of styles, without presets of what is acceptable and what is not. A department without a dogma but with taste and wide deep knowledge of the musical world of all centuries (including the 21st) and, possibly, world music.</p>

<p>My S is certain, at this point, that he will want to study more than just composition - at a high academic level - but he will want to have plenty of time to compose, as well as the peers to play the music he writes. (For instance, I thought about the University of Chicago which seems like it would be ruled out on both counts.) I suspect a BA will make more sense for him than a BM.</p>

<p>Currently my thinking runs towards: UCLA, USC, Oberlin, Northwestern, Wesleyan, Columbia, Bard, Michigan, and perhaps as safer alternatives, Brandeis, Emory, ASU, and UCSB - College of Creative Studies. (FYI- we live in California - Bay Area.) I've wondered about the program at Florida State where Chen Yi is a professor but can't really imagine my son in Florida. (Same for North Texas.)</p>

<p>Although most of his music teachers are Oberlin almuni, and my S himself loves 20th century music - he's not inclined towards electronic or the Boulez/Xenakis direction - more interested in Adams/Glass/Harrison and earlier 20th century. Of course, he is only 16 and tastes definitely do change - but he has certainly not been underexposed to new music.</p>

<p>I look forward to hearing more from you about the musical politics/leanings of the various departments.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Currently my thinking runs towards: UCLA, USC, Oberlin, Northwestern, Wesleyan, Columbia, Bard, Michigan, and perhaps as safer alternatives, Brandeis, Emory, ASU, and UCSB - College of Creative Studies. (FYI- we live in California - Bay Area.) I've wondered about the program at Florida State where Chen Yi is a professor but can't really imagine my son in Florida. (Same for North Texas.)

[/quote]

These are good places to think about if you're looking for a double degree. The problem with double degree programs is that (especially when they are 4 year programs) they get to be very busy. Often one area or another will end up being neglected. I'm currently a composition/conducting double major and I'm running into this very problem myself, as my composing takes a back seat to my conducting activities. In any case, the first several you name are very good. USC and UCLA, while generally not on the level of the big East Coast conservatories, are very good for composition double-degree. Oberlin is known for its avant-garde new music department. You should visit and try to talk to some faculty and students before you apply there. Northwestern has always seemed weak in composition. It's rare that I see NW students or grads winning national competitions or going to the big festivals like Aspen, Tanglewood, etc. That said, Lee Hyla will begin teaching there this fall. Lee is a superb composer and an excellent teacher. He will be missed by NEC. It will be worth applying to NW just for the opportunity to study with him.
I have a good friend who is a composer at Columbia. It seems to have a very active student-run new music scene. The college itself is, of course, excellent. However, I often get the impression from Joe that he doesn't get as much instruction in composition as he might like. The faculty members are not around much and do not really interact with undergrads. Also, the department is pretty strongly focused on computer music.
Bard is well worth consideration. I participated in a summer program there last year (and may be returning this year), and it seemed like a very good place. The campus is gorgeous, the school is top quality. The music department is small and extremely new, but growing quickly. I'm a big fan of Joan Tower, and I would highly recommend studying with her. I don't know how large the composition program is, but if you can get in it will probably be a very good experience. Bard is in the middle of nowhere, but so is Oberlin.
The one thing that has always struck me most about Michigan is that it is very big. The school of music, though top-notch, is massive and I don't know how much movement there is between the music school and the rest of the university. The faculty are excellent.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Although most of his music teachers are Oberlin almuni, and my S himself loves 20th century music - he's not inclined towards electronic or the Boulez/Xenakis direction - more interested in Adams/Glass/Harrison and earlier 20th century. Of course, he is only 16 and tastes definitely do change - but he has certainly not been underexposed to new music.

[/quote]

A good Californian! I grew up in San Francisco, and I was also very heavily into minimalism and post-minimalism when I was in high school. However, I should warn you that minimalism is very much a regional phenomenom. We sometimes loose site of this in the Bay Area, but minimalism really did not have much of an impact except in San Francisco and New York City. In Boston, at least in terms of the new music scene, most of the people who were alive and active when minimalism was popular ignored it completely. If your son is interested in studying with the students of minimalists he should stay in California or go to Columbia. However, that isn't something I would recommend. I've heard John Adams say (on several occasions) that minimalism is dead. I tend to agree with him. Diversity (a la Golijov, Hyla, Chen Yi, etc.) is where the future of composition is right now.</p>