Composition practise requirements?

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>Hi all, I've lurked for awhile and am impressed by everyone's helpfulness. Maybe you can help me assess DS's trend...</p>

<p>DS is a very talented low brass player (jr in HS) who used to say he wanted to major in performance. However, he's gradually gotten bored in the public HS band program, has always been at the top with very little effort, has never developed a good practise regimen etc. AP theory sparked his interest this year and now he thinks he would enjoy the creative end of the industry more (composition, songwriting etc). He is also self-taught on piano and guitar. Furthermore, as his focus gets more on the piano/writing/learning Finale etc... it gets less on practising his horn which has his horn instructor VERY frustrated who doesn't understand him not going performance, tells him he is wasting his talent, etc... but DS is determined to find a way to make music on his own terms.</p>

<p>All of that is fine by me, except now we are looking at very high dollar programs with almost no hope of scholarship money. So I'm reassessing what programs we should be looking at and welcome your advice. A couple of questions:</p>

<p>Should we be only looking at programs that evaluate comp portfolios after the freshman year? I can't imagine it looking competitive very soon.
I'm assuming if an audition is required, they will have specific practise expectations even of comp majors? if so, roughly how many hours a week?
Is a gap year (at a CC) as bad for a comp student as a performer?
Maybe we should just apply to the schools without audition requirements so we don't have to factor in buying a horn?</p>

<p>Thanks for your input!</p>

2

<p>A collection of the practice titled threads. Practice time and methods can be very instrument specific. What is “normal” for strings will vary considerably for brass, or vocal for example. Learning how to practice is often the key.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/893800-practice-consistency-suggestions.html?highlight=practice[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/893800-practice-consistency-suggestions.html?highlight=practice&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/864389-practice-time-conservatories-vs-music-major-universities.html?highlight=practice[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/864389-practice-time-conservatories-vs-music-major-universities.html?highlight=practice&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/706957-excellent-if-somewhat-obvious-article-practice-habits.html?highlight=practice[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/706957-excellent-if-somewhat-obvious-article-practice-habits.html?highlight=practice&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/446958-how-many-hours-do-you-practice.html?highlight=practice[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/446958-how-many-hours-do-you-practice.html?highlight=practice&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/277993-practice-innate-talent.html?highlight=practice[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/277993-practice-innate-talent.html?highlight=practice&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/272454-practice-hours.html?highlight=practice[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/272454-practice-hours.html?highlight=practice&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>As for composition, look for threads by Compmom, SpiritManager, Hunt, WindCloudUltra. There are a number of comp links I previously posted within <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/905628-what-should-someone-looking-composition-major-know.html?highlight=composition[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/905628-what-should-someone-looking-composition-major-know.html?highlight=composition&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Also stringkeymom and RlMcMillan (do I have that one right?).</p>

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<p>Thanks Compmom. Yes you do.</p>

5

<p>One thing to consider (if you are eligible for need-based aid) is that sometimes you can talk a music school into counting the expense of buying an instrument into the cost of attendance for purposes of calculating the amount of financial aid that they offer. It is worth a try if you wind up buying an instrument, but you have to ask specifically about this because otherwise they will assume that he already owns the instrument.</p>

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<p>To add to BassDad’s point above, here’s a link to a couple of prior threads on an instrument purchase as part of COA <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/673438-can-stafford-loan-used-towards-buying-musical-instrument.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/673438-can-stafford-loan-used-towards-buying-musical-instrument.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

7

<p>Not sure what you mean by practice time for composers.</p>

<p>Do you mean on an instrument, or time working on compositions?</p>

<p>Most conservatories do not require a composer to even play an instrument, though some do.</p>

<p>In conservatories, composers apply by sending a portfolio of 2-4 works, preferably played by musicians (or the composer). For some colleges, a composition can be sent as a supplement to the application, as can a CD of the horn playing or whatever.</p>

<p>Some of the instrumentalists whose parents are on this forum practice 5-6 hours/day.</p>

<p>You said your son is bored with high school band. This happens to many students at different stages of the game, and most end up doing music outside of school.</p>

<p>This summer, and this coming fall, are there opportunities to play outside of school? That can often clarify things, and having inspiring peers to play with is a big plus.</p>

<p>He has a private instructor for horn: has this teacher suggested anything? Perhaps this outside activity is already happening, and I misread the post…</p>

<p>What kind of music does this son like to play, or to write?</p>

<p>Does he want to go to college, or conservatory? It sounds like right now he is growing in new directions, which is cool, and I wish everyone could do that when they are young! Maybe he doesn’t yet really know what he wants. But it does sound as if a pure concentration on horn, with many hours of practice/day, is not what he wants right now. And that is absolutely fine. </p>

<p>Maybe this summer he could have a composition teacher, or go to a summer program (NYSMF still has open applications: New York Summer Music Festival).</p>

<p>Without any further information, it seems as if a non-audition college would work great for him, or a state university (affordable, and most have a BA or BM option). There are a wide range of schools, and many have good music departments where students can compose, play in musical organizations on campus, and major in whatever they want. Many offer financial aid.</p>

<p>Once a kid starts composing, things can evolve fast in some cases. Who knows what the year will bring. Encourage him to listen to lots of composers!</p>

<p>Hope he is enjoying his new interests while maintaining the old, if that is what he wants.</p>

<p>Editing to add that a gap year to further explore interests and build skills in not a bad idea for anyone. Also, when we looked at conservatories, we met some very talented kids who had, indeed, spent a year or two at community college.
For some kids involved in the arts, CC can be a way to train in their discipline, while taking one or two or three courses to progress in school at the same time.</p>

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<p>Reading your post, what catches my eye is that he is bored with HS band. I know someone is going to take my head off for this, but in general school bands, no matter how good, often are not very challenging for players who have achieved some sort of mastery. I was in our high school band/wind ensemble program, and while it was a good one by school standards, I would not, especially knowing what I know now, call it a top flight program, compared to what I have seen with high level youth programs and pre college programs and so forth.</p>

<p>I also have direct experience with a student musician not being motivated to practice, because it came too easy, and I also saw what challenging the student did to make them take the ball and run with it. </p>

<p>I am not saying discourage your son from trying composition, it could be that that is what intrigues him (I also will add that a lot of instrumental students are also interested in music in general, many of them love music theory, compose music and so forth outside their instrument). What I am saying is what his teacher is (I assume a private teacher) saying, that it may be a waste to drop the instrument if their is still a chance there. Maybe he knows of a higher level program outside school your son could audition for? Maybe there are some sort of performance opportunities that would challenge him.</p>

<p>I think this is a rough time to be discovering this, with the fall application process coming up and so forth, and it is going to take some thought. I don’t know a great deal about composition (other parents on here are directly involved with that end),but from what I have seen it is pretty competitive, though while not as crazy in some ways as some of the instruments are, it still might be a climb to make it into a program given the time we are talking about. I think one of the things I would encourage is if it is at all possible to try and find either a program or a local person willing to take your S on as a student in theory and composition, to see if he really wants to go into it. Composition is fun, but it also is a tough path that requires a lot of passion and thick skin and drive, like instrumentalists have to have, so he may want to see what it is about to see if he wants to do it.</p>

<p>I think he needs to explore the composition and also realize that his practice regimen may be related to be bored, and that his high school band, no matter how good, is probably small bananas compared to what is out there, and I think he needs to see that before making his choice. If you can,I would recommend trying to get him to a performance of a top level college program, or take a gander of the videos I suspect are out there of the NEC or Julliard college orchestras, to get an idea of what that level is like, or of one of the top youth Orchestras out there (san francisco, NY, Seattle among others have great programs), to see it isn’t like school band, where often the top players are kind of sitting around while they try to motivate the usual suspects (me being one of them, the kids who weren’t so great) into playing something that resembles music. It is very different when you are around kids as good or better then yourself, it is a totally different world, that I can tell you. </p>

<p>If he wants to go into music, he has some options. He could take a gap year to see where he is (if he has a private teacher, get an evaluation, or maybe talk to a teacher at a good music school about giving an evaluation), to see what he would need to do to get into a good program, it could be he is already there in terms of the instrument he p plays, you need to know, or it could tell you what he needs to know. </p>

<p>Likewise, he could see if he really wanted to do composition, maybe by being in a program.</p>

<p>I am sure there are other options, this is just my opinion, hope it is worth something:)</p>

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<p>To echo what compmom said, practicing an instrument may not be a very significant part of what a composition major does. This may be different in a conservatory setting, but in some B.A. music degree programs–like the one my son is in–there is no required performance element (although there is musicianship, which includes ear training, etc.).</p>

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<p>I would second musicprnt’s advice to revisit the whole performance vs. composition question–does it have to be an either/or? While virtuosic technique is not mandatory, many composition programs do require an “audition” on an instrument (or voice), just to get a feel for the applicant’s musicianship. And the experience of playing an instrument, of hearing an ensemble from within, certainly aids in the development of the ear. </p>

<p>I would second the opinions of others above and recommend looking in to a BA degree program at a school that meets your other criteria (location, cost, size, etc.), and to encourage S to continue study on his instrument, so he can continue to perform in ensembles at least during the undergraduate years.</p>

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<p>Most conservatories (and colleges) do not require an instrument for composers. At a conservatory, composition students may be required to sing in a choral group if they don’t play in an ensemble at all.</p>

<p>From our particular experiences, BU and UMass require an instrument. Oberlin, MEC, Mannes, Manhattan, and Julliard do not.</p>

<p>Our daughter is a classical guitarist, and, since BU and UMass do not accept classical guitar as an instrument, she could not apply to those schools for a BM program.</p>

<p>However, she did apply to some great conservatories and great colleges, and did well with admissions, without any audition on an instrument whatsoever.</p>

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<p>I second what musicprnt and compmom and others have said: it sounds like it is time for your son’s musical horizons to widen, and it is just possible that he will regain his interest in horn as well as finding a path for composition. Is there a regional ensemble your son could audition for? Is there a precollege music school in your area where he could take some theory classes, maybe piano, and/or be placed in wind ensembles with more challenging repertoire and coaching? Is there a community college or even regular college campus near you where your son could access music theory classes? (That was what my son did when he became more serious about composing. The local high school has an arrangement with the local university allowing students to take courses that the high school doesn’t offer.) I also really encourage investigating the summer music festivals; some are still taking applications. Even if your son doesn’t attend a festival this year, if at all possible, try to visit a summer music festival with both performance and composition. Or consider summer sessions on college campuses where music courses are offered (I think Boston University is one). In addition, it sounds like he is talented, so try to keep him going with his horn–it makes sense that he might be bored with it at the moment but it might be that all he needs is new challenges in performance.</p>

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<p>Thanks for those links… there were some I hadnt found earlier</p>

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<p>and I hadn’t even thought of trying to get an instrument purchase figured into his COA</p>

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<p>compmom, i don’t expect him to have a motivation issue with composition work, my concerns are whether he would commit enough time practising on his horn, so it’s good to hear that some composition programs don’t expect much instrumentally (although I think he’d enjoy ensemble participation)</p>

<p>FYI - we are looking mainly at universities with a SOM that has entreprenuerial approach, not conservatories (he isn’t counting on finding a job at the end of this, so I’m hoping he will also be prepared for all the career aspects of a self employed musician). His private instructor keeps steering him to specific colleges where he knows there are good horn teachers, but he’s more interested in composition programs that are contemporary/commercially oriented. DS would most likely would write for blues/jazz, maybe even Christian rock if what he listens to is a clue.</p>

<p>We’re in the process of looking for a private composition teacher… and expect to have to cut back on horn lessons to afford that (might be another reason his horn instructor isn’t being real helpful?)</p>

<p>Also, regarding outside ensembles… the only way that would work schedule-wise is to quit HS band (HS marching band in our state is HUGE and DS’s least favorite aspect), but I’m not sure that’s a good idea since he’ll need his directors recommendation for college apps. </p>

<p>I know Berklee, Duquesne and Belmont (although he wants someplace cold) are on his list. Any other ideas we should consider? We probably won’t qualify for need (we’re both self-employed and income has the propensity to fluctuate widely from year to year, so any merit $ will help make the decision less scary… I’d hate to let him go someplace and not be able to finish due to finances!</p>

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<p>He won’t need the high school marching band director’s recommendation for a composition application. He will need a recommendation from his composition teacher. And they only want one music recommendation. He should feel free to quit marching band if he doesn’t like it. For the academic part of the application he will need one humanities and one math/science teacher. No band teacher rec required!</p>

<p>Berklee? Belmont? What kind of composition is he hoping to pursue? Looks like he’s interested in contemporary commercial music?</p>

17

<p>really? quitting marching band would free up his summer and senior year a ton and make him very happy… I may start a new thread to get more input on that option, thx</p>

<p>his composition aspirations would definitely be in the commercial genre but I’m not real sure he’s found the exact niche yet (he has very ecletic taste, just knows he wants more freedom than a purely classical traditional program would provide). He’s also considered songwriting because he is so expressive musically, but he’s not neccesarily a good vocalist. Would prob best pair up with a John Mayer or Elton John type artist…</p>

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<p>I suggest you go on the websites for the colleges you listed (and you’ll find more in the commercial music threads - such as USC’s Popular Music program) and look at the admissions requirements. Check out a few and see what recommendation letters they require, as well as whether or not he would need to audition on an instrument - and what the repertoire would be. The info should all be easily accessible to you.</p>

<p>I can’t advise on the commercial music composition route - my son only applied to classical composition programs.</p>

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<p>Hmmm. You said he likes COLD – look at UMich’s Composition program. Some pretty contemporary options can be integrated (via the PAT – performing arts technology elections across field) even though it is a semi-traditional school of music enviroment (go have a listen at [UM</a> School of Music, Theatre & Dance](<a href=“http://music.umich.edu%5DUM”>http://music.umich.edu) – some of the comp profs have recordings up if you dig around – I know at least one of my son’s comp profs is very very contemporary). Downside is that UMich is not a “meets 100% need for OOS school” – and has eye-popping out of state tuition compared to some others (eg. $34k tuition only, COA $48K). But every now and then they come up with a generous package and decent scholarships so it might be worth a look. My son is in the Performing Arts Technology - Music concentration BFA program there (former trumpet player, eclectic tastes, now focusing on electronic composition/synthesis and multimedia programming/production) and loves it to bits. In his program, he elected the route by portfolio of songs/sound synthesis/programming as opposed to the curriculum that requires live instrument audition (although you do have to submit a recording on an instrument regardless). Not sure about the traditional composition program in that regard. At any rate, just an option to explore if your son is thinking north :wink:
Cheers,
K</p>

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<p>UMich is on our long list, but that OOS was pretty shocking and their comp pgm sounds very competitve so I doubt he’d get much unless they just need his instrument.</p>