<p>Hello all, this is my first post on CC. I am wondering if anyone can offer me advice about which schools to look into for my interests. I would like to eventually pursue film scoring, but I am just slightly confused about how to get there. From what I have researched there seems to be a lot of skills to acquire to become a film composer. Of course, I have told my parents I might not even need a college education to make it in the music industry. Nevertheless, they still would like me to go to college. I have researched several websites and forums that all have advice about what it takes to become a film composer, so ideally, a liberal arts school in Los Angeles, New York, or Toronto that offers: a strong music department, a strong business school, a strong film school, music technology classes, music business classes. I know for sure that I'm going to apply to USC, UCLA, UT-Austin, and ASU (my safety school). I'm not applying for NYU because I'd have to take calculus my senior year and that would be too many AP classes. Anyways, I somewhat care about the school being liberal arts because of the small classroom sizes, but really I would just like one on one instruction with the composing professor. I'll figure out if I actually have the physical capacity to double major and minor once I get into wherever I'm going. I would like to double major in music composition and some business degree such as marketing, entrepreneurship, or business administration and minor in some film related degree. It was also suggested to me that I might consider focusing on music first for my undergrad and then doing business for my graduate. I would consider myself a hard-worker and I think I can double major. I have a 3.7 (hopefully a 3.8 by the end of the semester), I've yet to get my ACT and SAT scores back, but I'll for sure take those tests again, I practice percussion for 3 hours a day and 5 hours in the summer, I compose 1-2 hours a day and study privately, I have been the overall percussionist in the North west region of Arizona for three years and have been an all-state percussionist for two. If there is any information you could give me about where I might consider applying that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!</p>
<p>For the route I’m going to weigh in on, you might find it a tougher road if you’re not wanting to take calc or APs for NYU (and those APs demonstrate rigor for schools like USC, btw) but here’s two additional suggestions:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>University of Michigan has a very strong percussion program, and a “Performing Arts Technology” program in the music school that includes composition, multimedia (eg. film editing, scoring) and production. Check out the different degree options at [UM</a> School of Music, Theatre & Dance](<a href=“http://music.umich.edu%5DUM”>http://music.umich.edu)</p></li>
<li><p>Humber College in Toronto has a “contemporary” program that includes composition and recording – and I know a drummer that’s a recent grad. You may wish to check it out.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Lastly, people become “composers” before they become “film composers.” What I mean by this is that if you’re a composer, your work will or may be used for a WIDE variety of performance opportunities including scores.</p>
<p>So it makes sense to first most CLOSELY focus on composing – pure and simple. That said, all the production, tech, interactive and multimedia scoring opportunities you can get your hands on will help – so take a peek at programs similar to UMich’s PAT program.</p>
<p>Best wishes.</p>
<p>What I meant for calc was that would mean I’d be taking 4 AP classes and my parents think that’s too much (but I think I could do it). I’ve looked at Umich before. I don’t really care about it having a strong percussion program, I just included that because I wanted to show I’m a hard-worker. I’ll look at it again. I haven’t heard of Humber College or really any Toronto school so I’ll make sure to look into that. Thanks for the info!</p>
<p>I wouldn’t necessarily worry so much about AP calculus. if you are doing a lot of music, many schools won’t hold it against you that you didn’t take calculus. If there is a school that you are really interested in, you can always call admissions and ask. </p>
<p>Music is a tough major with many required courses in a sequence. I could see a double degree. A double major is doable but difficult, and adding in a minor would be impossible, I would think. Here is a good piece for you to read: [Double</a> Degrees | Peabody Conservatory](<a href=“http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html]Double”>http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html)</p>
<p>Undergraduate composing can sometimes be under a general music major, sometimes a concentration within the major, and at a conservatory or music school, composition can be the major itself. Do you want a BM or BA? Do you want to continue percussion performance as well?</p>
<p>Finally, as others have said, often undergrads do general music/composition and then film scoring in grad school. USC, as you know, has a great grad program for film scoring and I believe as an undergrad composer there, you are assured of admission. Berklee is another possibility. </p>
<p>I would say just realize that there is plenty of time and doing too much in terms of double majors and minor could impact your creativity :)</p>
<p>I’m now considering majoring in composition with maybe a minor in business. Would it be possible to major and double minor? I won’t really know all that I can do until I get in the swing of things in college. I would prefer a BM over a BA. I’m not planning on pursuing more percussion education. I don’t really see myself as a musician. I’m still going to go to a school with a good music school and a good film school. Even if I decide against being a film scorer I still want a good music education. Perhaps I might consider going to a top music school such as Eastman or Indiana for my undergrad before moving to LA, New York or Toronto to start more education/scoring films? I mean right now I really really want to write music for movies, but in the end I might do something else. I just want the safest route. Thanks!</p>
<p>I don’t think the words “safest route” and “music major” really belong together in a phrase, post or concept…BUT I also don’t think “safest route” is very applicable in any OTHER MAJOR either.</p>
<p>At any rate, at the UMich program I referred to, my son DID start out as a DUAL DEGREE student between PAT and FILM. However, he quickly found that because the PAT program has so many specific requirements (including calc, btw) including upper level film production, engineering, composition, interactive computer programming, etc. he a) was already getting the highest film production exposure available in the PAT degree alone and b) he needed to concentrate on his sequence.</p>
<p>So he dropped the “dual” degree and graduated with the single BFA in PAT. Which isn’t to say he wasn’t involved with film or scoring. In fact, he wrote/directed/produced/scored a film selected by a university group for inclusion in a regional film festival; he has credits on several other productions; and he took classes in both sound design and composition for moving imagery, etc. etc. So he has a good demo reel now of scoring, but also of editing, animation and other production effects, plus interactive work, etc.</p>
<p>A program like this might “marry” your interests better than a dual degree can. Eg. a required course IS business for music…just not a minor…etc.</p>
<p>I like the idea of doing a lot of music technology, but that’s not what I’m strongest at right now. I’ve looked at Umich’s PAT program and although it looks incredible I don’t have those skills yet. </p>
<p>I’m wondering if it’s absolutely necessary (heck, all of this might not be necessary) to minor in film. I would like to double major in music comp. and business and just see if I can do it. I was watching a Michael Giacchino interview about “what it takes” and he said composers should take film classes. Or perhaps I just need to be at the school where good films are being made. </p>
<p>Is it possible to major and double minor? Say majoring in composition with a double minor in business and film all the while taking music tech and music biz classes?</p>
<p>Thanks for all of the replies!</p>
<p>I think that Michael Giacchino is correct that some film classes would be helpful especially to gain a thorough understanding of the process, but honestly when it comes to film scoring, I think that being close to the action is perhaps even more important. And, I wouldn’t wait until grad school to begin making those important connections. I know of a very talented NYU film grad who is from the LA area and came home after his degree to find that he was 4 years behind the LA students who spent their 4 years making contact with people in the field and working in student film projects in LA. </p>
<p>My son is also a budding film composer and has a mentor in the business and has made contact with others in the business. All of them say that for film scoring it’s important to be in LA and to be working on projects while you’re still in school. Your main focus would be to study composition while making contact with other future filmmakers by working on their projects. And, these LA schools tend to bring in a number of the local pros on a fairly regular basis to give you an opportunity to meet and begin building relationships. To that end, a strong film program is very important for the same reason. But, even being in LA isn’t enough. You will need to be reaching out to these other students and professionals on your own. Yes, you can do that from other great comp programs throughout the US, but it’s easier to do in LA. Every single pro who has heard my son’s music says - in order - USC, UCLA, and CSULB (if you’re not accepted into the first two) in LA and then Berklee if you must be out of the LA area.</p>
<p>You’re on the right track with your grades and coursework. That will help. These programs are extremely competitive. USC enrolls about 6 comp students a year; UCLA 4. Though the most important part will be your music, the whole package is important. My son applied to both and despite nationally recognized composition awards (ASCAP winner, ASCAP finalist) was not admitted to either. He had a decent GPA and SAT’s, but probably not high enough for either program. Rather than leaving the area, he chose to attend an LA area state school with a strong music program and a good film program, good enough for Spielberg. 
[Steven</a> Spielberg and the CSLUB Film Program](<a href=“http://tv-filmschools.com/steven-spielberg-and-the-csulb-film-program/]Steven”>http://tv-filmschools.com/steven-spielberg-and-the-csulb-film-program/) My son intends to attend USC film composition for graduate school.</p>
<p>Remember that USC undergrad composition is a 4-year, no transfer program. You get in as a freshman, or you don’t get in.</p>
<p>Outside the LA area, if you are wanting to make connections, Berklee offers an undergrad film comp program and has many visiting LA musicians to work with the students. Howard Shore is a graduate of Berklee. My son was accepted there as a comp major with plans to take film comp classes as well. He decided to defer his acceptance there and will reassess what he wants to do after spending some time locally. Both schools were a good option for him, but since we live near LA, staying here made sense to him for now. That CSULB is 1/10th the cost of Berklee was another factor. :)</p>
<p>Remember this - When you are young, and if your music is good enough, pros will be willing to open doors for you. Wherever you choose to go to school, don’t waste the asset of your youth. In fact if you haven’t done so, start now. My son has been surprised at how many of these guys with Grammys have taken the time to speak with him, to listen to his music, and to give feedback. I really do believe they are more willing to do that for you at 17 than at 27.</p>
<p>good post OCmusicmom.</p>
<p>I think it’s very important to seek the advise and expertise from someone who is actually a successful composer rather than constructing a simplistic educational formula. In a highly competitive pursuit such as film composition, it really pays to follow the advice from those who are well informed and currently working.</p>
<p>Good luck to your son OCMusicMom at CSU Long Beach. Please keep posting on CC so we can hear about his experience there.</p>
<p>Thank you, musicamusica. We have learned so much since he first began this path less than a year ago. I have been so surprised at how willing these folks have been to speak with my son and offer their thoughts. Some of them even offer interning opportunities, something that wouldn’t be available to a student studying in a location other than LA. To be clear, there are amazing composition programs throughout the US, but if the goal is film scoring, you can do it by learning comp in one of these other programs, but you will be getting a later start than those living in LA. Those students would be wise to be lining up connections long before graduation.</p>
<p>Thank you SpiritManager. I will definitely do so. CSULB has received a lot of praise for the strength of its program. In the final decision making process, he spent an entire day there attending classes, meeting professors, and attending the composers colloquium. One of the things that impressed him the most was that there were a large number of practice rooms (keyed so that the students have 24-7/365 access) and that these rooms were busy with activity. They may call CSULB “The Beach” but there’s some pretty serious music going on around there.</p>
<p>CSULB has also been producing some formidable voice students.A few months back we met a soprano (a recent CSULB grad) at a competition. She had her pick of the top grad schools along with some fantastic grants and scholarships. And wow…what a well trained voice. For in state kids, it’s not only a great music school, but an extraordinary value as well. Keep us posted.</p>
<p>WOW! Thank you so much OCMusicMom, that has really answered my question about where I should I apply to school! Is there a list of LA area schools you would recommend to apply to? I know USC, UCLA, and CSULB, but I would like to apply to more. I’m still going to apply to ASU as a safety because I know I can get into there. Also, would it be appropriate if I emailed the composition directors at each of these schools to ask what they are looking for in a composition student? My portfolio consists of collaborations between dance companies, my sister who’s a dancer and hopefully some more collaborations. Is this what composition professors are looking for? Collaboration? I would just like to know what these programs are looking for musically. I’m already going to Los Angeles this summer for a family trip and I would like to know where I should visit. Thanks again! This forum rocks!</p>
<p>I think I already listed the biggest programs. I don’t know as much about them, but you might also check out CalArts and Chapman. Chapman has a great film program, but my son didn’t apply for comp there because comp acceptance isn’t granted until the junior year. I hear they offer some amazing scholarships, but my son felt that would still be quite a bit of money to invest with no guarantee of studying what he wanted to study. Look for a college music fair in your area. We attended one rather late in the game, but it still gave my son an opportunity to speak with representatives from these schools. In some of these cases, the department chairs were in attendance. </p>
<p>I’m perhaps not the best person to answer your question about speaking to professors. My son started at this so late in the game (his formal studies started last summer) that he didn’t really have the time to explore all of the potential options. You might begin by reading all the staff bios and listening to their music. I hope that others will speak up and let you know their experience with professors. As for what they are looking for, I really can’t say. On the one hand, my son didn’t get into USC/UCLA but received substantial scholarships at other programs and has had no fewer than 3 Grammy winning artists heap praises on him. When each of them has said, “He needs to go to ____” and we tell them, “He applied but didn’t get in” they are surprised. We will probably never know why and quite frankly aren’t worrying about it too much. Ultimately, no matter where he (or you) goes, it’s going to be up to him (or you) to be making as many contacts as you can. You are entering a very small field and will come across these folks in one way or another in your professional career. Whether your contact with them leads to acceptance into their school or a collaborative relationship down the line, it’s all good.</p>
<p>I’ve checked out CalArts, but I’m not sure if I’ll apply. I haven’t looked at Chapman, but if it’s in the LA area I’ll check it out. Right now I’m going to apply to 1. USC 2. Occidental 3. Pomona and 4. ASU. I’d really like to go the smaller classroom sizes route rather than the giant state school route. I was also considering Loyola Marymount. I know they’re awesome for film, but for composition maybe not so much. And also maybe Whittier College? I have just barely looked at these schools, but if you wouldn’t mind sharing your thoughts about them I would greatly appreciate that.</p>
<p>I emailed every composition and theory professor at both USC and ASU about what they look for in an applicant. Most of them just reiterated what’s on the audition requirements website, but USC told me some things that scare me. They said that they are looking for up to 8 freshmen. Also they said to maximize my chances I should write a substantial work for a large ensemble, i.e. a fanfare for orchestra or wind symphony. This freaks me out because I don’t know how I would pay to record a large ensemble. I know I need to push myself and challenge myself with writing and I am fine with that, but it’s paying for and finding an orchestra to record my piece over the summer before November 1st. ASU also recommended I write a piece for choir and another for string quartet. I know they want to test my theoretical knowledge, but I’ve only scratched the surface with 17th-century theory (I’m sure I got a 5 on the AP Theory exam, I took four practice tests and got 5s on all of them) and they want to see how well I can write using 20th/21st century harmony. I really want to stand out, but I just don’t know where I can find an orchestra that’s ready on call to play a piece I write. My knowledge of orchestration and arranging is very minimal and I need to put this together in 5 months. I’ll talk to my former and new composition teachers to see what they think about the whole thing, but I can’t believe they’re expecting a symphony from a 17 year old. Maybe I just don’t know how could composers at my age really are. Any information about where I could find groups to record my stuff would be appreciated. I have just completed a multi-percussion solo and I was going to start writing a piano solo, but perhaps I need to reconsider where I put my energy. Thanks!</p>
<p>You don’t need to find an orchestra to record your work for submission to composition programs. They will accept a midi recording. Very few applicants will have a recording with a full orchestra. Just make sure you have the best possible midi instruments available for the notation program you’re using. And, no, they’re not looking for a symphony. A five minute piece will be sufficient. All composition programs want to see that you can write for a variety of instrumentation. If you have good musician friends, write a piece for them which you can then record live. Programs do like to have a few pieces which have been recorded live, and not all midi recordings. And not all solos, if possible.</p>
<p>USC usually has a freshman class of 8 students - which is actually a large class. 32 undergraduates, plus all the grad student composers. To get 8, they’ll accept more than that. Many programs have fewer students than that. Composition is competitive, as OCMusicMom learned.</p>
<p>As for Chapman, it has one of the best film programs in the country, and it has a school of music, so it’s certainly worth looking into.</p>
<p>Schools like USC and UCLA will receive perhaps 80 - 150 applications for those 4 to 8 spots. Although USC’s recent class was 8, we were told that they usually aim for approximately 6 students and that the 8 they recently had was the result of a slightly larger number accepting their offer of admission.</p>
<p>My son submitted a string quartet (live recording), a 19 piece brass fanfare and a 30 piece work for strings, wind, and chorus. The latter two were a combination of live and midi. He only had one visit with a professor at one of these schools, very early in the process when he had only been studying for a couple of months. He was super nervous and probably didn’t present as well as he would today. At that time, his pieces hadn’t yet been recorded, so the prof was looking over his scores. He had some nice things to say about what my son was doing, but did make a couple suggestions - write something easier, something your friends can play and “aim to find your voice.” So, what you heard about writing big pieces is exactly what my son did, but when he sat down with a professor, the opposite was suggested. That’s part of the reason why I’m not sure what to tell you when you ask what they’re looking for.</p>
<p>I do wonder this, however. Other than the strings piece, the other two pieces my son submitted were more commercial sounding. They <em>sound</em> like film scores. Even though both you and he plan to study film scoring, the first part of your education will be standard composition studies unless you’re specifically aiming to study undergraduate film scoring at Berklee. While finding your voice is a big part of standard composition studies, in film scoring your voice is often a blend of what the director envisions, what you write, and what you discover along the way best enhances the film - and that will be different from film to film depending on the genre. If you haven’t done so, do check out the YouTube videos in which Hans Zimmer talks about the film scoring process. And, you might want to Google for some names of people who were accepted to these schools and ask them what they submitted. If you do so, please post back and let us know.</p>
<p>In the meantime, get your music performed, submit your scores to some contests, and - as all of these Grammy guys have told my son - write, write, and write!</p>
<p>I just saw on another thread that you’re involved with North Arizona U. They do have a lively new music scene there, and I even know one of the percussionists. I would ask the grad students there for advice, and the professors. You might be able to get some of the grad students to play some of your works.</p>
<p>In addition to the advice of “write write write” I’d say “listen listen listen.” Go to all the concerts at NAU, most especially the New Music concerts and the festival. Listen to classical radio on the internet. Check out Q2 via WQXR, for instance.</p>
<p>The more you hear, the more informed your ear will be, and the more interesting your music will become, both to yourself and your audience, and to a university program.</p>
<p>I agree with OCMusicMom that professors are not looking for undergrad students who are writing pieces that already sound like movie scores. They are looking for originality and talent. And enthusiasm.</p>
<p>All the advice and points of view you have been getting are valid and you can rely on and trust all kinds of advice in this thread. My point of view is a little different, and I also want to say that I don’t live anywhere near LA :)</p>
<p>My advice would be to keep it simpler and not try to overplan or overcontrol your life right now. It is a hard time of transition. I don’t think you need to worry about studying business (actually, you can pick up a lot of skills with internships and in the course of music studies anyway). I think a focus on film scoring may be premature.</p>
<p>I think at the undergraduate level you will want to get some solid music background under your belt (history, theory, musicology, ethnomusicology, music technology/electroacoustic work etc.). Let this work take you where it takes you. I think it may be harmful to your development as musician and composer to worry about what the marketplace will want of you, and these 4 years may be the only time you have to really develop your compositional “voice.”</p>
<p>You can study privately regardless of your major by the way, and regardless of whether the school curriculum offers private lessons. You can even study with a teacher who is not affiliated with your school at all.</p>
<p>There will be decisions like BM versus BM versus double degree: [Double</a> Degrees | Peabody Conservatory](<a href=“http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html]Double”>http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html)</p>
<p>Look at curricula and courses, distribution requirements, faculty (listen to their works), and performance opportunities.</p>
<p>You will have lots of choices. I would say relax, focus, and have patience while you work hard at and hopefully enjoy music studies and composing in college, music school or conservatory-wherever you end up. I know it is worrisome thinking about making a living ultimately, but it will work out one way or the other.</p>
<p>p.s. The calculus issue, as I said, won’t matter at all at some places, and will matter at others.</p>
<p>Thanks for all of the advice everyone. I will see what happens once I’m actually where I am at. Right now, I am considering writing, a string quartet or other multi-movement chamber work, either a choir piece (I’m in my school’s choir) or perhaps a wind/orchestral piece, maybe. I have taken composition lessons for a little less than a year from a graduate of NAU, however he’s moving to Chicago and I’m setting up lessons with another composer in Prescott. I’ll see what my new teacher has to say, but if USC is recommending a large-ensemble piece to stand out and maximize my chances then I want to write that piece. I have just completed a multi-percussion solo and I was considering doing a piano solo that has a graphic score, but maybe that’s not my best option. I go to an NAU concert every few weeks or so. USC recommended I listen to modern orchestral composers such as John Adams. </p>
<p>Where would I look to contact people that have been accepted as undergraduate composers to USC?</p>
<p>If I went to a Liberal Arts school I think it would be beneficial because I would get exposed to a lot of diverse styles of music and maybe formulate a new plan of what I should do for a career.</p>
<p>I do a lot of listening, but I know I need to be score-studying as well.</p>
<p>Thanks everyone who’s responded to me! :)</p>