Computer Science at LAC or Smaller University

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Son is rising Jr. and we are beginning to look at schools to visit/consider over the next year. He is very certain he is interested in CS and in fact that desire has driven him to improve his performance in other non-STEM courses. </p>

<p>This is a little uncharted territory for us as our other 2 children were less focused with regard to majors and it wasn't a large factor in the decision making process. I graduated from and have a bias toward LACs. Other 2 ended up in LAC and smaller university. Really did not look at (m)any large universities. </p>

<p>It seems that most of the stronger schools in CS are major universities and Ivy league or most highly competitive schools. He is a strong but not stellar student(~3.7 very strong IL HS, ACT projects ~32) with half honors/AP curriculum. Not an athlete and modest ECs. </p>

<p>Am aware of UofI, Wisconsin, Georgia Tech, Univ of Washington, Michigan, UT Austin as large universities that may be target or reach schools. He is not opposed to a large university but all other thing being equal might prefer a smaller school. However, he is concerned that a smaller school (maybe outside of CMU, CalTech,several Ivys,etc.) may not offer enough breadth/depth of CS courses, especially as compared to the large schools.</p>

<p>So my question(s):
a) Is he right and he should be looking at primarily large schools due to his focus and seek a well rounded education w/in that environment?
b) What smaller universities/LACs are strong in CS, offer breadth/depth in CS courses, and are realistic target/ reach schools for him[this has not been easy to find]?
c) It seems that the CS programs at some of the larger schools only offer admission to the program after 1-2 years of undergrad prereqs. Thus you may go to the school specifically for the CS program and then after 2 years not be able to get in(fine if that's where you wanted to go otherwise). Is this a reasonable concern?</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

2

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<p>Your list of flagship state universities will be very, very expensive, except for the one for which he will qualify for as an in-state resident. I’d cross them off the list unless you’re in the happy situation that money is no object.</p>

3

<p>Does it have to be a LAC? What about a school like WPI, which is smaller than the places you mention, or RPI ( a little bigger)?</p>

4

<p>My son is also interested in CS, but we are not focusing on large universities. </p>

<p>We have some reach LAC’s including Williams, Carleton, Pomona, and some reach smaller universities including Rice, Duke, Brown. Oh, super-duper reach but super desirable are Stanford and Carnegie Mellon. </p>

<p>There are some Catholic schools out west that get overlooked here on CC that we are gonna check out this summer: U of San Francisco, U of Portland, and Santa Clara U. </p>

<p>I am very intrigued by Case Western Reserve. I’ve never been to Cleveland.</p>

<p>When I visit a school’s web site I focus on faculty size and background, then try to look at student opportunity while at school and afterward. In and out of class, summer opportunity, co-op, internships, research, time to graduation, BS/MS combinations, … All the above deserve further consideration. We’ll visit the western ones this summer and, if son applies and is accepted to others, try to go to them.</p>

5

<p>You can check the course catalogs at each school to see if junior and senior level CS courses in the following subjects are offered:</p>

<p>algorithms and complexity
theory of computation, languages, and automata
operating systems
compilers
databases
networks
security and cryptography
software engineering
computer architecture
electives like graphics, artificial intelligence, etc.</p>

<p>A short cut to evaluation would be if the school has ABET accreditation for CS. While not strictly necessary for most purposes (unless one wants to become a patent agent or lawyer), it does validate that the CS degree program meets a reasonable minimum standard. However, non-ABET accredited CS degree programs can range from excellent to worthless.</p>

<p>Regarding whether one:</p>

<p>a. Can easily declare the major after passing the prerequisites as an undeclared freshman, or
b. Must apply to the major as a freshman, with changing into it being difficult later, or
c. Must enter undeclared or in another major, then face a competitive admission process to declare the major</p>

<p>This type of thing varies by school, so you need to check each individual school carefully. In some cases, more than one may apply. For example, at Berkeley, both (a) (for the the CS major in the College of Letters and Science) and (b) (for the EECS major in the College of Engineering) apply. At Washington, (b) applies; students not directly admitted to CS as freshmen face (c).</p>

<p>Schools with lower list prices that may be worth consideration include Minnesota, Stony Brook, Virginia Tech, NCSU, and Cal Poly SLO. Texas A&M may be worth a look if he can get one of the scholarships that includes a waiver of the non-resident tuition. But these are not small schools.</p>

<p>Harvey Mudd, Swarthmore, and Bucknell are among smaller schools with good CS reputations.</p>

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<p>For some families whose EFC is high enough that they won’t get significant need-based aid anywhere but don’t want to pay private school prices of $60,000 per year, some of those state universities are significantly lower priced than that, even for out of state, although they are not the cheapest list prices around.</p>

6

<p>ABET - I mistakenly thought that was only for engineering. It’s more inclusive. </p>

<p>As of 10/1/2011, Duke and Rice were not ABET accredited. U of Portland is. Not sure how much weight I will give to ABET here. </p>

<p>I second the Harvey Mudd recommendation. But my kid did not get 800 on math and their financial aid doesn’t sound very generous.</p>

7

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<p>For CS:</p>

<p>ABET accredited: can be from decent to excellent
Not ABET accredited: can be from worthless to excellent</p>

<p>Good CS degree programs at places like Stanford and Massachusetts - Amherst are not ABET accredited. But some other non ABET accredited CS degree programs like at Amherst are rather limited. So more careful individual evaluation of offerings is needed in that case.</p>

8

<p>One other thing to consider: at a small LAC school, the CS program is a little isolated from its natural counterparts such as Electrical Engineering, Computer Engineering, Robotics etc. That’s why my son never considered CS at schools that didn’t have engineering programs. He is now studying CS at WPI and has enjoyed taking Electrical/Computer Engineering electives and will take some Civil E. courses as well having to do with urban design and transportation systems… Wouldn’t have these options at a true LA college.
If he likes the “vibe” better at LACS than at tech-oriented schools look at schools such as Bucknell, Lafayette, Union College (NY), Tufts etc. where the engineering program is strong but a small subset of overall student population. Best of both worlds!</p>

9

<p>I’d check out Earlham College. (full disclosure - I go to Earlham and work for admissions, though this is just me on my free time) Our computer science program is great and students basically get to run the day-to-day systems of the college. There is a big emphasis on application here. Theory is important, but the professors are more concerned with students getting out with the skills they need to succeed in the workforce - and that requires both theory and application. I have friends that are now working at Oak Ridge National Laboratory and NASA’s Jet Propulsion Lab which graduated from Earlham with a compsci degree. </p>

<p>There will always be less classes available at smaller schools - what we have to offer is more individual attention from professors and more opportunities that are available to undergraduates. My mom works at an advanced EM research company in Dayton - they love to hire students from LAC’s as interns or full-time workers. </p>

<p>There is a downside to our program though - it is small. There are only a few professors dedicated to compsci here. My friends in the program haven’t found this to be a problem, as everyone at Earlham is on a first-name basis and the faculty know their students well (and vice versa). It’s not everyone’s cup of tea, though. I highly recommend taking a visit. I’m an admissions student worker here, and I always tell prospective students that we wouldn’t want them to go to school here if they wouldn’t enjoy their time or get what they need out of the college. So make sure that’s the case :)</p>

10

<p>Duke, William & Mary, Wake Forest would be good options.</p>