Computer Science at WPI vs. UMass Amherst

[IndianPwnerDude]

<p>

This does not rank Computer Science departments. It is basically ranking WPI’s majority of comp-sci, engineering, and science departments against UMass’s vast array of departments, a fraction of which are comp-sci, engineering, and science.

</p>

<p>The Class of 2009 entered with a collective 3.6 high school GPA and an average combined SAT score of 1250 (from here: [The</a> College of Engineering University of Massachusetts | Quick Facts](<a href=“http://www.ecs.umass.edu/index.pl?id=2252&isa=Category&op=show]The”>http://www.ecs.umass.edu/index.pl?id=2252&isa=Category&op=show)). The average SAT for the school of Natural Sciences and Mathematics (where CS is located) is much lower (Engineering has the highest average). </p>

<p>The average SAT at WPI is 1300 (not that SAT’s are end all be all). Also, only around 50% of WPI students are engineers. The rest would be studying the same thing as what NSM students would be at UMass. A good number of students at WPI pursue management and liberal arts as well. Science and liberal arts majors at WPI (and most other schools) have lower average SAT scores than the engineering students.</p>

<p>

Unless students are teaching the courses, I fail to follow your reasoning. </p>

<p>NRC CS ranking</p>

<h1>18 Mass-Amherst</h1>

<h1>102 WPI</h1>

<p>USNWR CS ranking</p>

<h1>20 Mass-Amherst</h1>

<p>WPI is listed but unranked, meaning it falls below the lowest ranked school (UT Dallas at #72).

</p>

<p>NRC rankings relate solely to peer-refereed journal publications and research grants. This means that there are many more grad students at UMass (since most funding goes to hire grad students) and maybe there are some faculty who only do research but is not very relevant to undergraduate education. The reasons that UMass attracts better grad students is because they probably spend a good deal of the funds they receive on graduate fellowships. Undergrad research opportunities are freely available at WPI to students who want them (and I am sure this is probably also true at UMass-Amherst). Much of the research at WPI is led by undergrads. Again, the only place where NRC rankings impacts an undergrad is that they might not have as many areas to choose from (breadth) if they are interested in research. But even then, there are a fairly large number of research options at WPI.</p>

<p>

It didn’t seem to me that you were comparing the computer science programs at either school, but rather other departments, or the admissions office. Also, the graph of students from my school who were accepted to each school in the last 5 years (from our school’s Naviance site) had around the same number of sub 3.0 GPA students accepted.

</p>

<p>There were many more students with sub 4.0 GPA’s accepted to UMass (system is out of 5.0) from my school as a proportion than to UMass, although this is not very relevant. In fact, I believe nobody was accepted with below a 4.4. However, the sample size for WPI is smaller than that of UMass.</p>

<p>

Being the state flagship of Massachusetts makes UMass a more reputable school than WPI. The town of Amherst is very pleasant place to be, and transportation makes reaching malls, Northampton, and the other four colleges a breeze.

</p>

<p>I agree that UMass is a very decent school (I was strongly considering it). However, this argument doesn’t make too much sense. UMass is not one of the strongest flagships in the country and there are many flagships which are decent but not well funded or very strong academically (University of Maine - Orono, University of Missouri, Oklahoma State, University of New Mexico, …)</p>

[IndianPwnerDude]

<p>

Besides, if UMass costs X and WPI costs X + $32,000, it’s really a no-brainer.

</p>

<p>Unless I were super wealthy, I would not go to WPI if I had to pay full cost ($50k). Saying UMass has the stronger overall reputation is questionable at best. At the undergrad level, I could not say with certainty that the UMass program is stronger. For the good fit and for the project based curriculum as well as more faculty interaction, $10k or even $15k a year is a fair cost if you can afford it and find it a worthwhile investment. However, UMass may definitely be a better choice for you for many reasons as well (better fit, research topic you want is only there, stronger linguistics program, stronger business). However, WPI provides many merit and need-based scholarships and most students don’t end up paying full cost. Education is an investment and only you know how much what WPI provides is worth to you. </p>

<p>

I think my preference would be best based on the quality of the schools’ departments which I will be going into.

</p>

<p>Under this same logic, you could say that UVA, Tufts, Brown, NYU, Johns Hopkins, and Dartmouth are weaker than UMass in CS and Engineering (although this is not necessarily true). Note that I am not saying that WPI is as strong in general as the aforementioned schools. While UMass CS is a strong program, people are not flocking from other states to attend the program and this is probably for a reason. If the departmental rankings are what you are looking at, UMass will probably win 70-80% of the time. Departmental rankings are based on research output which is largely proportional to the size of the graduate program. Considering that WPI has fewer than 30 Ph.D. students, it is remarkable that they are able to do as much research they do and much of this work is done by the undergrads. WPI has some issues at the graduate level such as poor stipends given to grad students and very high teaching loads (they don’t actually teach but they grade papers and exams, hold office hours, etc).</p>

[kwu]

<p>

@IndianPwnerDude

However, this argument doesn’t make too much sense. UMass is not one of the strongest flagships in the country and there are many flagships which are decent but not well funded or very strong academically (University of Maine - Orono, University of Missouri, Oklahoma State, University of New Mexico, …)

</p>

<p>You have misinterpreted my argument.</p>

<p>I was merely asserting that UMass is the more reputable school–that is, a greater proportion of laymen will have been acquainted with it, to any extent–and that this repute, good or ill, has UMass’ identity as a state flagship to thank. I did not argue that UMass is superior to WPI in CS, nor did I argue that UMass is the academically superior school overall.</p>

<p>For your sake, I’ll suppose that UMass and WPI are more-or-less peers in CS.
I stand by my argument: if UMass costs X and WPI costs X + 32,000, one would have to be “on something,” as Math4breakfast so eloquently put it, to choose WPI over UMass.</p>

<p>Say X=0. 130,000+ dollars is a significant investment for a bachelor’s degree, especially if one supposes that the gains from attending UMass and WPI will be more or less the same.</p>

[Walker1]

<p>Thanks for the replies again IndianPwnerDude.</p>

<p>The graphs I was referencing have the high school GPA’s from my school on the Y axis, and SAT scores on the X axis, and whether they were accepted or not to the school. Both graphs are pretty similar is what I was saying. I was just mentioning this to let the person know who was saying UMass is no comparison because he knew people with sub 3.0 GPA’s that went there.</p>

<p>My statement about wanting to focus on the departments that related to me was also a response to try to get us back on topic.</p>

<p>Basically, I’ve been trying to tell Math4breakfast that these schools, and computer science programs are definitely similar and not “a joke of a comparison”.</p>

<p>I think we are on the same page when it comes to comparing these schools, and you understand that one can lean from either school to the other based on some of the things you listed (better fit, research, PRICE, etc.) .</p>

[Walker1]

<p>

@kwu

For your sake, I’ll suppose that UMass and WPI are more-or-less peers in CS.
I stand by my argument: if UMass costs X and WPI costs X + 32,000, one would have to be “on something,” as Math4breakfast so eloquently put it, to choose WPI over UMass.</p>

<p>Say X=0. 130,000+ dollars is a significant investment for a bachelor’s degree, especially if one supposes that the gains from attending UMass and WPI will be more or less the same.

I agree with this 100%.</p>

[jessiehl]

<p>

…its upsetting to here that people think so lowly of WPI and I don’t even go there.

</p>

<p>Believe me, I don’t think poorly of WPI. I have friends who go there. I have co-workers who went there. I’ve collaborated at work with WPI professors. It’s a fine program (and, I agree, seems to do quite well with robotics). However, UMass Amherst has an extremely good CS program (I can’t comment on their quality as a whole; I am <em>only</em> talking about CS here). I’m not comparing bad and good here, I’m comparing good and better.</p>

<p>

Do any others have any insight about NorthEasternkid’s advice about the environment and class size affecting my experience?

</p>

<p>I’ve been in classes, in my university career, ranging from four to several hundred people, with CS classes covering nearly that range (four to a couple hundred). I remain unconvinced that class size is as big a deal as people think. <em>Very</em> small classes can be really nice, but I’ve found that once you go over 20 or so it’s not that big a deal as long as the class is properly staffed - your really big classes will have recitation/discussion sections that are the same size as smallish classes (possibly smaller) anyway.</p>

<p>As far as environment goes, I think that’s a legit point. But possibly not quite for the reason that most people think.</p>

<p>In a big school with a party atmosphere, there will be plenty of people who work hard anyway. If nothing else, even in the most party-hearty school, there are generally a few majors where you <em>have</em> to work hard to get by, and CS is often one of them. But your friends are not likely to be entirely from that crowd. Even if you enjoy the work that you are doing and have a good work ethic by nature, it can be difficult to work and study as much as you know you should when you’re the only one who has to do so, and your friends are all going out and having fun (and probably doing well in spite of it) while leaving you to work. It can make it hard to become close to people, or maintain friendships, outside your major.</p>

<p>By contrast, at tech-oriented schools, at least in my experience, there tends to be more equality in what sort of commitment is required from students, regardless of major. When everyone is on roughly in the same boat, there’s more empathy for each other’s situations, and while everyone is going to have that time when they’re the only one who can’t go to the party, there’s not going to be one or a few people in a social group who are consistently the ones left behind.</p>

<p>So that is one way in which I agree that WPI probably has the advantage. But you can get around or mitigate this at a place like UMass - you just need to be aware that it’s a potential problem.</p>

[tennis83]

<p>UMass is highly regarded for cs. If you have done a lot of programming, you should look carefully at the curriculum each school offers. Check out the course web sites(see what languages are used etc.). It is also interesting to check out the cs professors on ratemyprofessors.com</p>

[Walker1]

<p>Thanks tennis83 and jessiehl.</p>

<p>Jessiehl: Your paragraphs social life have some really good points.</p>

[IndianPwnerDude]

<p>On a different note, I would say that another choice would be to go to a top ranked LAC or not technical school and to do a double major or minor in CS. This way, you can enter an interdisciplinary research career or work in an applied area in industry. In this way CMU CS is truly excellent (all students do double major/minor and there are literally hundreds of research groups spanning all different areas) although I did not get in (not sure whether I could have afforded it either). Hopefully (though unlikelily) I can make it there for grad.</p>

<p>If you plan on a research career in CS (particularly if it is not pure math/theory), majoring in social sciences such as psychology, linguistics, or even economics and taking CS as a double major or even a minor would provide you with enough CS knowledge to get into a good graduate program but would also provide you with additional background to enter areas where graduates are in lower supply (computational finance or risk analysis, digital forensics, bioinformatics, NLP, social networking analysis, etc).</p>

[Mandalore]

<p>I think WPI is better in general, the only benefit to Umass is that it is much cheaper, here are my reasons: smaller class sizes = more attention and help from good professors; almost all classes are taught by real professorsat WPI, where at Umass there are alot of TA’s due to the budget cuts; all the good professors from Umass are leaving due to budget cuts, since the state government is supplying the school with less money; u have to take required classes at Umass and they actually take attendance as well, which in my opinion is like high scholl all over again, i do not want to take english in college since i might be a physics major, and at WPI i would not have to; WPI’s academic terms, with 4 terms a year instead of the usual 2 semesters, and you take 3 classes every term = better concentration on current studies</p>

[FullerBass]

<p>Although this thread is nearly 3 years old, I’ll leave my two cents for any incoming freshmen who might be wondering about the program at UMass.</p>

<p>I entered UMass as a Jazz Bass major because I was the “music guy” at my high school, winning the “most musical” superlative and barely ever leaving the band room. I got to UMass after an audition on electric bass, but when I got there they required me to pick up Upright Bass… Long story short, it was way too frustrating to learn so I dropped music and picked up a mathematics major – my second best subject in high school. </p>

<p>I decided to go through with all of my music curriculum for my first semester in case I decided to minor (probably not, at this point…). In addition to 18 credits of music courses and geneds, I added an introductory computer science course (CMPSCI-121) because it was a requirement for my math major, and I had a few friends in the class. I ended up LOVING and excelling in the class so I decided to apply for computer science as a secondary major. The introductory course was highly packed (approx. 400 people), but the professor made it clear that students who did not want to come to lecture, did not have to. After all, it was an introductory course and a handful kids in the program had plenty of experience with Java already (the course was an intro to programming with Java. ONLY Java)</p>

<p>Also, the course was taught by a tenure professor named Robert Moll. He is a VERY smart guy. Although his lectures could put some to sleep, he knows his stuff. He made sure to answer everyone’s questions at the end of lecture. Normally there would be a line of 10-20 people asking very detailed questions. </p>

<p>The course also had an optional discussion section where I met a very smart grad student named Marwan who has done lots of research regarding AI and robotics. Marwan went through the UMass undergrad as a double major in math and computer science – and get this! – for comp sci students at UMass who graduate with a GPA of 3.6 or higher, they get free tuition to the masters program. Sure enough, Marwan did that. He landed a job at Google that I think he works at during summers and did his grad research during the fall/spring. </p>

<p>Anyway, back to my story… I continued with computer science / mathematics in my second semester taking two math classes, the core comp sci class (CMPSCI-187: Data Structures), a music class, and two gen eds. 187 was taught by Prof. James Allen. The class size was a lot smaller than CS-121 (187 people actually). The professor went above and beyond to help students out with our weekly assignments. He spend hours creating test harnesses that every student could submit our projects to online for a grade. The weekly assignments all built off of each other to create a sort of search engine. It was awesome! (Damn hard work though). </p>

<p>I passed CS-121 with an A and CS-187 with an A-. </p>

<p>For those of you who hear “UMass” and automatically say no because it’s a “party school”, grow up… Any college is a party school. Just because UMass is big, then it logically follows that more people are going to party. Admissions has gotten better about who they let in regarding GPA and SAT scores (even though the SAT is a load of crap…). What’s great about UMass is that you can manipulate the size in order to create your own little campus to stay away from the parties, find friends that enjoy just hanging out in your dorm and playing video games, or hell, have a few beers while you program a project. UMass has plenty of AWESOME opportunities, and to automatically assume that it’s a bad school just because you heard it was a party school is a shame. Give UMass a chance; it’s not that hard to just NOT party…</p>

<p>-Nate F.</p>