S17 has been accepted to UA and plans on attending in the fall. He is strongly considering computer science. I have been hearing negative things about this department and the drop out rate in the intro CS courses. I am trying to get information from recent parents or students in this department as to whether the department as a whole is problematic or just the intro courses-- CS 101 and 102. I understand that engineering is difficult, not every kid has an aptitude, etc but this seems to be affecting a large number of very bright kids specifically in this dept. S17 has no programming experience and fell in love with CS this fall during his AP CS Principles course – which has no coding and fell way, way out of love with Mechanical engineering once he started AP physics 1 and hated physics. It was always my understanding that intro courses did not assume prior knowledge which does not seem to be the case with this specific dept. Trying to get solid information and understanding of the issues in this particular dept at UA so that we have an alternative plan if necessary so as not to risk Presidential scholarship. Thanks in advance.
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There are clearly huge issues w/ the revamped CS 100 class. Reports of half the classes doing very poorly and kids dropping the course and changing majors to avoid having to take it.
It would be nice if someone could comment on this here. I think this is a very recent change in the curriculum and I have to wonder if past years had this many issues.
@kjcphmom , we are also considering to apply to take advantage of Presidential Scholarship. Appreciate your input on CS department
Is the issue only with the CS100 class or is it more widespread. Most of what I have heard is focused on CS100 and I am wondering why? As an intro class I would not presuppose prior knowledge although certainly some students would have prior knowledge. It is like assuming everyone in Calc I has had Calc I before. Would taking this course over the summer at another university bypass those issues? Thanks for anyone with feedback.
Keep in mind that Bama allows ANYONE who is admitted to the school to choose ANY major they want…including low stats students choosing STEM. Couple that with the fact that “all smart kids” do NOT have the “engineering mind” or “programming mind” to do well in CS or eng’g.
Many very smart kids gravitate towards Engineering, CS or “being premed” because that’s what they’re being encouraged to pursue…because they’re smart and those are high-paying career paths. But, many/most very smart people aren’t cut out for any of those paths.
Also, some very smart kids didn’t have to work as hard in high school, and college can be a big ole shock!
That said, there may be some growing pains going on, I hear from “all sides.” I am an admin for the UA Parents of Engineering Students Facebook group and I don’t know what to conclude. Some kids seem to have no issues at all, some have a bit of a struggle, some really have to work at it, and some can’t do it/make it.
Thanks. I was having some trouble figuring out what the issues actually were. The “rumors” seemed to be more than just smart kids not having an engineering bent but I couldn’t really tell. I guess if this is the path S17 wants to pursue we will need to be vigilant about whether that is the right path for him once the classes begin. And hopefully if there is some issue on UA’s side they will work it out sooner rather than later.
For OP, I agree with everything said in post #5.
I was intrigued about seeing if CS or Software Eng required PH I and PH II, which all the other engineering curricula at UA requires. So if someone truly ‘hates’ physics…PH at UA was challenging for DD - she likes PH, and made it through.
Some of the UA parent facebook threads do have feedback and extra sources of preparation for students who fear sinking at first CS course. Advising and departmental help can potentially also give good advice, and there is tutoring help.
Ds is currently a freshman at UA majoring in CS and taking the CS 100 class. We homeschooled and he took 2 computer science classes online: a Java class in 8th grade and AP Computer Science in 9th grade. He has said that knowing programming before entering UA has been very helpful. He also took logic in 7th grade which he said was very helpful in getting him to think in the way he needed to in order to program.
I also agree with mom2collegekids: there are probably a variety of reasons kids are having a difficult time. But truthfully, I think this is common at many schools. I am going to post a CC thread from 2005. In this thread kids from various schools speak to the difficulty of CS. Perhaps some kids are not cut out for CS (?). http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/27861-is-computer-science-competative-hard.html
One thing that has greatly helped ds is that he entered UA with 55 credits, including credit for Calc I and Calc II. I know many kids are struggling with calculus as well, although perhaps not to the same extent as CS. It is helpful that ds has a relatively light schedule
CS 100 was implemented for the spring 2015 school year. It is listed as intro for CS. From what I have been told/read, it really isn’t an introductory class and is pretty much self taught. I think for kids who had experience or have a natural aptitude for it, they seem to do well enough. If not, I think it is just overwhelming.
It has been suggested that the kids need to look at online courses, youtube, C for dummy books, etc. and to try do all of this before attempting this class if they have no coding experience or don’t have the natural aptitude for it. DS does not like coding. He had one class in HS and did well enough, but didn’t like it.
He knew CS wasn’t for him. And from that older thread referenced above, most tend to agree you “get it or you don’t.” Clearly many of the kids in this current CS 100 course are in the don’t category. Yet, it is required for majors other than CS.
My son needs this class for EE. (I have suggested he change his major.) He is going to attempt it again for the spring. I think he should wait and practice, practice, practice over the summer. He plans on taking the minimum credits to remain full time.
Since this CS 100 is recently revamped from previous courses, I would love to know if the drop/failure rate was as high in those earlier courses. I, myself, plan on looking online for the recommendations and see just how hard it is. Maybe then I can appreciate more what DS is trying to tell me.
What majors besides Electrical/Computer Engineering require CS 100, @laralei?
@LucieTheLakie , I could not find any other engineering majors other than EE and CS that require CS100. I don’t know if @laralei knows of others.
@laralei, maybe your ds could try to work on CS over break utilizing open courseware. Just a thought
Thanks, @BlessedMom3. I haven’t found any either, but I know the flowcharts are updated all the time. It’s definitely not a requirement for mechanical engineering, that I know.
I’m glad to be forewarned. Our plan is to have son work on learning coding over the summer and trying to figure out if he “gets it” or enjoys it. It does sound as if this class is problematic for students and for an intro class that by definition should not presuppose knowledge expects a certain degree of knowledge.
@laralei Since this CS 100 is recently revamped from previous courses, I would love to know if the drop/failure rate was as high in those earlier courses. Me too. One would think that after several semesters UA would have to know if the new format of the course was causing student problems and would hopefully take steps to address it,
From what I’ve heard from my daughter and her friends, CS100, CS101, and CS201 are all really, really hard classes. CS200 seems more manageable, FWIW.
Definitely expect to spend a LOT of time on these classes. If possible, any advance knowledge of C (for C100) or C++ (for 101) would be a big help. Taking a MOOC or some other tutorial to learn C the summer prior to taking 100 would be very smart. It won’t guarantee an easy time of it, but it should help.
My daughter had the “old” AP CS (that taught Java) prior to college, but that was the extent of her CS studies prior to college. Time management is critical as the projects (there were about 5 each semester last year for 100 and 101) take many hours over many days. I’d suggest planning on 30 hours PER PROJECT. Might get away with 20, but might need more. The student must start early, work hard early, and really plan their time carefully to get the projects done properly and on time.
Last year (when my dd had 100 & 101), there were NO tutors available for CS100 or 101 anywhere at any price. No Engenuity lab (the engineering tutoring lab) tutors covered those courses, and no private tutors were available. I (and another mom I know) searched and searched. SO, that means the kids were 100% on their own . . . It was brutal.
My kid survived 100 & 101 (and even loved the classes and the material, no matter how hard it was), and although her GPA took a hit from those CS classes last year, she made it through and is now a very happy CS major, is having a great time doing an Emerging Scholars (undergrad research) project with a great CS professor, and she just accepted a really nice CS co-op position starting this summer. She is very happy in her chosen field. . . She’s loved all her professors and generally is exceptionally happy in her major and at UA. CS is not for the faint of heart, that’s for sure. It takes a lot of grit and determination in addition to the smarts and hard work one would expect.
That said, I do think there is a real lack of support for those early CS courses. If they’re using these courses as weeders, then they’re succeeding, lol, as the number of students in each course is generally much reduced by the end of each course. I can’t vouch for accuracy, but I heard second hand that one of the sections of 101 (or was it 100?) last year ended with EIGHT students in class (I think they start with 60 or 80?). There are definitely a lot of kids that repeat these courses, drop, change majors, etc. If they aren’t intending to use the courses as weeders (to this degree anyway), then they really need to add more support via tutor availability, TA availability, etc . . . There sure is a hot market for some really sharp CS student to open up a tutoring service, but I’d expect to pay $30++/hr for anyone who could tutor this stuff . . . as anyone who is sharp enough to tutor it will also be sharp enough to get a “real” CS job, and those jobs pay bank. 
I suspect that’s the problem with finding tutors – someone just needs to accept the reality that CS tutors are going to have to charge a lot more than typical tutors . . . and start up a service that pays enough to make it worth the while of some sharp upperclassmen to tutor . . .
@mmom99 is right, the class is rigorous for a reason, and at public universities, especially in these huge into classes, student support is very limited.
At UF, all Industrial engineering majors(ISE) have to take an intro computer programing class for engineers (VB.NET) that’s taught by the ISE undergrad faculty coordinator. Each semester, about 1/2 of the students end up dropping the class and have to retake it. It’s the first class my daughter thought she may have to drop before she pulled it out in the second 1/2 half of the semester.
Yesterday, she got to interview the faculty member that teaches the classes, as part of her honor society project. He explain that the class is rigorous, because it has to prepare the students for the rigor ahead in the main classes. They need to learn how to develop study habits for classes that require significant amounts of work, outside of the class room (as mmom99 described). Once they figure “how” to succeed in this class, they are much more likely to succeed in their core ISE classes. It’s not a weed out class, as much as it’s a wake up call. It’s the reason why he teaches the class himself.
Most ISE’s that drop the class, will pass it on the 2nd try, since they now expect the level of rigor and put in the required time (lots of time) into the class.
I’m sure that’s the same thinking behind UA’s CS100 class. That students need to learn how to handle this level of rigor (and effort, lots of effort!), if they want to succeed in the major. That’s not to say UA’s done a good job of developing this class, just that this is likely their thinking. They didn’t create a class to weed out students, but a class that will help prepare them for future classes.
Now all of that is good and fine, but it doesn’t make it any easier when your daughter calls you, freaking out about how hard is the class, and that she may have to drop it…
Passing this info on to son today. Thanks all. I had no idea about any of this. Hopefully, being forewarned will help him to plan for whats ahead and decide if this is the path for him.
my advice is to stock up on ap credits and learn how to program over the summer (i took ap cs). when taking cs101/201, i suggest having a light schedule (<=12hrs) with at least one easy elective. it’s actually pretty easy to maintain a 4.0 in cs with the way our school gives ap credits/inflates gpa, which is normally pretty hard to do at other schools. feel free to pm me if you have specific q’s.
Hi @pokerqueen,
I am currently a freshman majoring in CS at UA. I am currently in CS 100 right now, so if anyone wants to talk more about the school or the department, I’m always available.
Regarding OP concern, yes, the dropping rate is quite high. To put it in context, our whole CS 100 courses have 351 students; our next CS 101 capacity has a limit of 200 students; and our sophomore courses have about 70 students.
However, coming here with very limited knowledge of coding, I can still do quite well in this class. Therefore, I can assure you that the course does not assume prior knowledge. The course is just simply more rigorous than a lot expect, hence the high dropping rate. My roommate is also a CS freshman with no prior knowledge, and he seems to encounter a bit struggle with the class. So, my little personal experience seconds what @mom2collegekids has said: the experience will vary from person to person. To me, I absolutely love my CS 100 class.
Also @SOSConcern concern, unlike all other Engineering majors, CS majors do not need to take ANY Physics class. Therefore, OP’s son would not have to take Physics at all if he does not enjoy it. However, we - CS majors, are required to take an Engineering class called ENGR 103 which is a pain (and a weed out class) to a lot of my friends (I’m not taking it right now). Apparently, it is quite time-consuming, unrelated to CS major, and simply un-enjoyable.
My personal take about CS is that the subject is not for everyone. Programming problems are very different from normal problems. For all the smart kids who have to drop out of CS, I think the fault is neither theirs nor our department’s. It is just not right.
@LucieTheLakie: Besides CS, EE is the only major that requires CS 100, and CS 100 is the extent of that requirement.
@mmom99 Hi. It is true that we do not receive a lot of help from the university except our professors (except for one who I’d prefer not to mention in a public forum) who are extremely helpful and very accessible. However, I know that there are private tutors now for lower level CS classes (CS 100 - 101 - 200 - 201) from upperclassmen. I saw their ad with their number around campus. Unfortunate
Also, contradictory to what everyone else here has said, I don’t think your son should self-teach himself programming over the summer. My roommate did that and it did not prove to help him a whole lot. I think the best is to come fresh, go to classes, put in effort, and hope for the best.