I have a 16 year old daughter who is currently interested in pursuing a computer science degree. She did fairly well in AP Comp Sci last year (4 on test, A in class), she’s currently in IB comp sci SL (wanted to take HL, didn’t offer it at the school) and her dad has a MS in Comp sci, so it’s a familiar major in the family.
What I’m trying to figure out, as her mom, is if it’s better for her to look for a CS degree in an engineering department, or one in the arts & sciences?
What is the difference between them, and what kids of kids prefer one to the other? I’d like to be able to have an informed discussion with her about this when she’s ready, and I find myself kind of confused as to what the differences are.
She doesn’t love math (but does reasonably well in it-currently in ab calc ab) or physics (again, muddling through ib physics sl this year-she thinks she’ll end up with a B), but has huge, amazing scores and grades in anything to do with reading and writing (AP courses). She’s also a personable extrovert who likes running things and creating things.
I want to be able to offer good advice to her, because she expects me to know stuff when she asks (I love to do research and make spreadsheets on whatever I’m currently obsessed with).
I asked a friend in the field about this when my daughter was applying with CS in mind. He thought since CS is a relatively new field, it had to do with the history of where the department started within the school’s organization.
Cornell offers both. You might like to compare the requirements to see how they differ. Considering what you say about her not loving math and physics, and excelling in reading/writing/creative skills, I would make sure she is at a well-rounded school, should she decide to change majors–I would avoid a tech school. I don’t think it matters too much if she is in Engineering or not, but she probably would have more opportunity to pursue her other interests in an arts and science program. You can look at specific requirements for each department to check on this.
That is a great question and one I have often wondered myself.
My son (senior in h.s.) is the opposite of your daughter - science/math is the natural inclination; struggles more with writing though he does love history.
I read something recently that suggested that a liberal arts background is going to become more important to a CS major (??). I will be watching your thread to see what others say.
My husband says both of his degrees were through the math department since he “didn’t want to work on circuit boards, just wanted to program”, and back when he was getting his degrees (early 90’s), he said he thought there was a bigger difference, so he feels like his knowledge for college now is obsolete.
This is a good question. My son is currently in CS engineering side as maths and physics are easy for him.
I think that your daughter will like CS in arts & sciences. CS combined with arts is great, interesting major. The future innovation is going to happen here.
Engineering degrees require the student to study stuff like physics, and hardware-- the physical world. If your daughter is more interested in algorithms, math, and writing computer programs that do cool things, but not interested in physical things that she can hold in her hand, then she would be better off outside engineering. If she likes building and understanding physical objects, then she should do an engineeering-based program.
I have a degree in CS. I care about the math, the algorithms, writing cool programs, and have no affinity, few intuitions and little skill with the physical world. I’m glad that I ended up not studying engineering.
Currently she’s trying to figure out how to program a motor that irises open and closed (like an eye) to run correctly in Arduino for an animatronic she’s building with a team, but she says she finds the wiring and physical assembly of the animatronic very tedious, so I’m thinking she runs more towards the “writing programs that do cool things”.
I think that at places that offer both–UC Berkeley is an example–the CS program in engineering has an electrical engineering component that is not required in a L&S CS degree. Otherwise, a CS program is probably similar no matter where it is placed due to historical reasons. Access to other engineering courses may be easier for CS programs located in a College of Engineering, just because many engineering programs are oversubscribed.
I think most all CS programs are going to require a fair bit of math and probably about 2 semesters of physics with calculus.
Have your daughter and husband look at the 4-year plan and degree requirements for CS at the universities she considers.
I’ve just been researching this issue for my nephew who is applying to college this year as a potential CS major.
In general, it makes less difference than you might think but there are a few nuances that can vary depending on the school.
Employers generally don’t care whether a software developer did their CS major in engineering or arts and sciences. However, a handful of less knowledgeable employers do have a preference for an engineering track because they think it is more rigorous, but this doesn’t seem to be based on much other than personal prejudice or their memories of how things were at the school they attended 25 years ago.
Some schools only offer the CS track in either engineering or arts and sciences. For those that offer both options (e.g. Cornell or Berkeley), there usually isn’t a difference in the requirements for the major (sometimes the engineering CS students have to take a hardware course - e.g. Berkeley, I think), but there is often a difference in the distribution requirements. Engineers usually have to take the engineering core (2 years of calculus, 1 year of physics, 1 year of chemistry, etc.), while arts and sciences students often have to take a broader set of distribution requirements such as a foreign language, etc. and usually have more free electives. This often ends up being what determines which option a student chooses.
I assume you’re talking about a student focused on software aspects. If a student wants to get some background in hardware then the engineering track can often be a better choice; there may even be a separate “computer engineering” track, or the electrical engineering major might be a better choice.
For historical reasons, some of the engineering CS programs require everyone to take a few hardware courses even if a student is only interested in software.
Some schools (e.g. Yale) have both a BA and a BS track through the major. The BS track is usually the more rigorous one, and some employers will definitely prefer it. However, this is usually a separate issue from whether the degree is from the engineering school or the college of arts and sciences.
At some schools it can be difficult to transfer from engineering to arts and sciences, or it can be more difficult to transfer one way compared to another. Admissions may be more difficult in one program (e.g. Berkeley’s EECS). This may matter as far as what program your child applies to.
Actually, ABET accreditation of a CS program is not very important at all. I believe that Stanford’s, CMU’s, and most of the Ivy League schools’ computer science programs aren’t ABET accredited, and that hasn’t seemed to have hurt them or their graduates much It can matter if a student happens to want to practice intellectual property / patent law. I suppose it could also matter if a student is going to attend a school which isn’t very well known, so the ABET accreditation could be a quality signal to an employer that never heard of the school before.
Bottom line - it generally doesn’t matter much but you should research the situation at the specific schools your child is considering. As a previous poster said, CS is a relatively young field and the history of how a program grew up at the specific school influences how they will do things.
When I got my Sc. B. at Brown in Computer Science, I didn’t have to take any physics courses. Students getting Sc.B.s in CS at Brown still are not required to take any physics courses. Students who care about software but not hardware don’t need to study physics, and there are so many other fascinating areas of computer science to explore.
^Well some schools offer both, and they have slightly different requirements. And CMU’s CS is in neither the engineering school nor the school of arts and sciences. (But it is a BS.) There are threads on this regularly.
I did CS via the liberal arts route and when it came time for senior year job interviews there was absolutely no concern or question raised by potential employers about it.
If your D is strong in English (as I was and still am) then that’s a great way to go. There’s a ton of things you can do with a CS degree for someone with strong communication skills. In fact once you get your first job, I think communication skills play a very large role in advancing your career unless you want to be stuck behind a monitor forever.
“And CMU’s CS is in neither the engineering school nor the school of arts and sciences. (But it is a BS.) There are threads on this regularly”
Don’t forget about Logic & Computation offered out the philosophy dept in the college of Humanities and Social Sciences. You can tailor Logic & Computation to focus on CS.
This is commonly the case for engineering-based CS majors or those with ABET accreditation, but not necessarily for other CS majors. If the volume and nature of requirements is of concern, each individual CS major program should be checked specifically.
As noted above, ABET accreditation in CS is not that important except for those heading into patents or possibly when a lesser known school is involved. For reference, the ABET accreditation criteria for CS are shown here:
My son was a CS major at Brown and this question came up. It was either a BS or a BA. He ended up doing the BA even though he was a math kid. At the time he felt overwhelmed and it seemed like the right decision. It turned out fine. He graduated and is now an engineer at Spotify.
It usually has to do with the core classes and requirements. Engineering students take more math and intro to engineering classes. A&S students may have greater literature (“great books”) and have a foreign language requirement. In addition, engineering may have different admission standards (more math!) , and sometimes women are at an advantage applying to engineering.
It can matter if a student happens to want to practice intellectual property / patent law. I suppose it could also matter if a student is going to attend a school which isn’t very well known, so the ABET accreditation could be a quality signal to an employer that never heard of the school before.