Computer Science Program at Pomona College?

Parents Forum
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<p>mazewanderer, I was wondering if you could clear up some confusion for me. I looked at the CS page for Pomona College (PC) and the CS page for Harvey Mudd (HM), and a lot of the classes have the same title (and corresponding Course No.) on both pages. These CS courses that appear on both PC’s CS page, <a href=“http://www.cs.pomona.edu/courses[/url]”>www.cs.pomona.edu/courses</a>, and on HM’s CS page, [HMC</a> CS: CS Major](<a href=“http://www.cs.hmc.edu/program/cs-major]HMC”>Computer Science Major | Computer Science | Harvey Mudd College) are: CS 55, Cs 81, CS 105, 131,140, 125, 132, 133, 136, 151, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, and 181. Do you know for sure if these “common” classes are taught at HM by HM faculty ONLY (vs. at PC by PC faculty AND at HM by HM faculty)?</p>

<p>Similar question to tennis83. Did Pomona College tour guide or Pomona College CS Dept Chair say that PC students can take most of their classes from HM, vs. PC? </p>

<p>CalAlum, you said that your D’s friend took his CS courses at Pomona College, not at Harvey Mudd. So maybe these “common” courses are both at Pomona College AND Harvey Mudd? Please post, I’m getting confused. The other thing is that when we toured Harvey Mudd at Spring Break this year, I asked the student tour guide if any students from the other colleges in their Claremont Consortium took HM classes. He looked uncomfortable, hesitated, and then said there were not that many students from the other Claremont consortium colleges who took the math and science classes at HM b/c of the difficulty level. </p>

<p>Please post and help clear the confusion for me. Thanks!</p>

<p>mazewanderer and nemom, thanks so much for the tip about John Hopkins online classes! We will definitely look into those! My son is going to take an on-line class offered by GiantCampus this summer in C++ Programming. Has anyone’s kid taken any on-line classes from Giant Campus? </p>

<p>mazewanderer and nemom, so both your kids have taken John Hopkin’s Java AP classes? Did your kids take the AP test? If so, did the class prepare them well? nemom, same questions re: John Hopkin’s AP CS A? If you feel more comfortable answering in private, please send me a PM. I would love to know b/c my son’s HS eliminated their CS AP class and there is no CS class at all at his hs. </p>

<p>nemom, thanks also for your suggestions about community college and hs robotics. Great suggestions!</p>

<p>CalAlum, mazewanderer and nemom, do both the John Hopkin’s program and Stanford’s EPGY program offer a lot of interaction between the instructor and students? How about among the students themselves?</p>

<p>vossron and Iglooo, I agree w/ both of you. Pomona College is strong in the humanities, and also from what I read on other threads here on CC, strong in their Math Dept.</p>

<p>busdriver, sorry, I don’t know anything about Pitzer. You should check their website and check their academic majors. Interestingly, Claremont-McKenna also gives a CS degree. My understanding is that you can either take ALL your CS classes from Pomona College OR, ALL your classes from HM, but cannot take some from PC and some from HM: [Computer</a> Science Sequence, Claremont McKenna College](<a href=“http://www.claremontmckenna.edu/math/CS/]Computer”>http://www.claremontmckenna.edu/math/CS/).</p>

<p>CountingDown, your son sounds very gifted, and his hs sounds very strong. Just wonderful!</p>

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<p>busdriver11, the Pitzer website lists several sciences as majors: [Pitzer</a> College - Majors & Minors](<a href=“http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/majors.asp]Pitzer”>http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/majors.asp). What science in particular?</p>

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<p>If the course numbers are the same, I’m fairly certain it doesn’t matter which college you take the course at. The only restrictions might be on some core major requirement classes having to be taken at your college. Due to the fairly small number of students at each school, elective type classes are often taught once per year or even once every other year so you take them when and where you can. For some more common classes it may just depend on which professor wants to teach the class, or which school has a professor in that particular field. I’m fairly certain HMC has more CS professors, so they can cover a wider variety of classes and probably cover some areas Pomona doesn’t have a professor for. I would guess that Pomona can at least cover its major requirement classes however.</p>

<p>I was a math major at HMC and I took a major requirement at CMC and it counted just the same. I also had a friend take at least 4 elective math classes at Pomona and CMC. There certainly aren’t a whole lot of non-HMC students in HMC classes, but I think it’s mostly because they aren’t interested in the level of detail we go into and probably the reputation the classes have of being very difficult. There are a few up to the challenge however, I had at least 1 Pomona student in almost all my upper division electives.</p>

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You can review the course listings on line; each course specifically states if it’s offered by HMC: [Pomona</a> College - Computer Science](<a href=“http://www.cs.pomona.edu/courses.html#CS30]Pomona”>http://www.cs.pomona.edu/courses.html#CS30)</p>

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I can’t speak to your experience with a specific tour guide. But again, if you simply explore the Pomona website, you can see that there are definitely Pomona students who take classes at HMC. For instance, the class of 2011 has 14 Pomona computer science majors, and to complete the major, each would have to take a significant number of classes at HMC: [Pomona</a> College - Computer Science](<a href=“http://www.cs.pomona.edu/personalities.html]Pomona”>http://www.cs.pomona.edu/personalities.html). Perhaps the tourguide had never been asked that particular question and didn’t know the answer. My daughter’s friend had the option of choosing between engineering at Tufts, computer science at Pomona, or EECS at UC Berkeley. He chose Pomona because he wanted a broad liberal arts experience. There are many national merit finalists at Pomona and the other Claremont Colleges, like this young man, who would not struggle with the math and comptuter science courses at Harvey Mudd. </p>

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<p>My daughter experienced EPGY in two ways: as a student enrolled in the on-campus program one summer and as a high-school student who took three computer science courses online and one multivariable calculus course online her senior year. She never met a faculty member face-to-face during the online coursework, nor did she have any interaction with any other students. She’s a physics major at MIT now, but I can’t really credit EPGY with preparing her, any more than I could credit her own independent activities or her high-school classes. Everything was helpful.</p>

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<p>I do not want to give you wrong information. What I was told when we visited HMC was that many classes were jointly offered with PC and that was very good relationship between the two departments. I am going to assume that is course specific: some classes can be taken in any college (CMC, PC, HMC offer them), some are rotated between PC and HMC and some are only HMC. I would suggest that you should talk to the CS department at PC to make sure you have the right answer.</p>

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<p>I will PM you.</p>

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<p>I do not know Pomona program or for that matter any C. S. program. I am Computer Programmer with 30 years of experience and love my job very much. Have been working on many platforms in many industries. It does not matter what school kid goes. C.S professionals need to learn at any new place. The ability and desire to learn quickly and independently (some places will send you to training class, other will not) and love what you do and have 4 year degree from any UG with high GPA - these made difference for me. Huge plus also for getting a new job was having MBA. I strongly advise though, pursue Grad. school after getting professional job that pays for it. Personally, I went to CC, got job (and multiple others after that) and got the rest of my education paid by various employers. Job experience is much more valuable than college degree in C.S. field, but there are places of employment that reguire BS (my current job).</p>

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<p>donuthead, my son doesn’t have a specific science major picked out, we’re just guessing he may go in that direction. The problem is, we don’t know anyone whose kid has gone to Pitzer and of course college websites can look just wonderful…but you have to talk to people to find out the real truth. Both Scripps and Pitzer are alot easier to get into than the other Pomona colleges, so it makes me wonder if they are as good.</p>

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<p>mazewanderer and CalAlum, thanks so much for your additional posts. I didn’t read carefully mazewanderer’s posts, where most of the courses do indicate whether they are taught by HM or PC. Sorry about that! I agree that it now appears that a CS major at Pomona would have to take several/many upper division CS classes at HM. The reason why I wanted to find out how independent is the CS dept at Pomona, is b/c I know HM’s classes are killer-hard, as Uroogla had noted earlier and as I have read on several threads, and as our student tour guide had stated. I’m sure there will be some national merit finalists who may not struggle with the difficulty level of the classes at HM. However, I’m sure there are some NMF’s who do struggle w/ HM’s classes, as well as many other students. I still am not sure that test-taking skills/testing aptitude correlate to how well one does on class, esp. classes held at an institution like Harvey Mudd… But that is another discussion! My son is not yet in his junior year, so we won’t know how well he tests in the SAT, but even if he does well, I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets pushed to his limits in CS classes at HM. </p>

<p>mazewanderer, I do agree that the best thing to do would be for my family to contact Pomona’s CS dept. We’ll do that when we visit during the summer. You’ve been a wonderful help, w/ so much information. Thanks so much!</p>

<p>Can anyone answer this question: since my son’s hs does not offer CS AP any longer, would it be possible to score well on the CS AP exam by using an on-line class? What other materials are you aware that would help (specific books, etc.). Thanks again!</p>

<p>busdriver11, I totally understand when you said you son hasn’t picked out a major yet. You just want to know the reputation of Pitzer and Scripps’ in sciences, as well as general over-all reputation. Can anyone give busdriver 11 any feedback about Scripps and Pitzer?</p>

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<p>Your (or your son’s) mileage may vary. I talked to my son and couple of his friends and they all feel that the first computer class should be in class (which can be supplemented by on line) but if you have no exposure to programming, basic tasks like setting up an environment may be challenging. </p>

<p>Not that you cannot do it especially if there is a parent or a friend who can help, but just following the instructors commands in real time may be better. Once the basic exposure is there, on-line would be fine.</p>

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<p>Why he needs CS AP? It is not going to land him a job or help him in future CS classes at college.</p>

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<p>If he does well enough in the CS AP test, he could test out of and receive credit for a couple of lower level CS classes. Always a nice bonus! A good score would also look attractive to colleges to show his interest in the field.</p>

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<p>^^ One reason for taking some kind of CS course pre-college is to help him decide if he likes it and wants to pursue that as a major. Of course, he could effectively do this in college as well by just starting in CS and switching out to another major if he decides he doesn’t like it. It becomes more important if one chooses a college that’s heavily focused in engineering and thus offers fewer non engineering/science majors which would provide fewer options for switching out.</p>

<p>Having some programming under the belt also gives a bit of the boost in the first couple of quarters/semesters since it’s not all brand new to them but it evens out thereafter and generally isn’t a necessity (although some colleges recommend it).</p>

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I think it does matter, especially when looking for a first job after grad. Some schools receive heavy recruitment by companies and others not so much. This is somewhat due to their location sometimes but is often due to their reputation as well. I can tell you I’d much more readily hire a CS grad from certain schools versus others.</p>

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<p>busdriver11 and ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad, thanks for answering MiamiDAP’s question. MiamiDAP, plus, I know this sounds strange, but my son was looking forward to taking CS AP. He was disappointed when his hs counselor said the course was dropped, due to budget cuts.</p>

<p>Ok, busdriver11, I don’t know if this will help or not. But I remember reading online an article about hidden gems of colleges, and that I printed a copy. It mentioned Pitzer, as well as the Claremont Consortium. See if you can pull it up: <a href=“Off the Beaten Path - The New York Times”>www.nytimes.com/2006/07/30/education/edlife/gems.html?pagewanted=print</a>. If you can’t I can enter the small paragraph about Pitzer. The article is dated 7/30/06 and is entitled “Off the Beaten Path” by Randal C. Archibold of the NY Times. Also, U.S. News & world Report, Sep 2009, Vol 146, Issue 8, p. 90-92 had an article about “Best Liberal Arts Colleges.” It rated Pomona as 6th, Claremont McKenna as 11th, Harvey Mudd as 14th, Scripps as 25th, and Pitzer as 49th. You can look this up at the library. You should also take a look at the 2010 U.S. News & World Report.</p>

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<p>Thanks alot, donuthead! I’ll pull it up right now. That is very considerate of you.</p>

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<p>It is possible to do an on-line course and score well on the AP CS exam. My son, who is now at Mudd, went to a high school that did not offer any computer science classes. He was self-taught, for the most part, but rounded this out with the Stanford EPGY on-line Java course. Mudd doesn’t give credit for AP exams regardless of the score, so if your son was going to go to Mudd, there is no advantage to taking the AP exam other than to show that you are really interested enough in the topic to study the topic and take the exam even though your school doesn’t offer it. </p>

<p>My son has taken art classes at Scripps, but hasn’t taken anything at any other of the schools so far. I can confirm that the Pomona kids do take the Mudd CS classes. My son (a rising junior) complained this year that he couldn’t get into one Mudd class he wanted because so many Pomona rising seniors had signed up for it. (Mudd is going to offer extra sessions of the class next semester to meet the demand). There also are Pomona kids in the math classes I think.</p>

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<p>This is one of the things I love about the Claremont Colleges.
One semester my son was shut out of a language class and the school added another section that very semester. There were only about seven students in the class.
I think all of the Claremont schools are good, but they all are a bit different in vibe and student body. Pitzer is getting harder to get into every year. I think the admit rate is in the high 20s this year.</p>

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<p>busdriver,
I had always thought Pitzer’s strength was in the social sciences and psychology. Don’t know to what extent that has changed as they have started getting “hot.”</p>

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Scripps is a women’s college. (That’s not a comment on how easy or not it is to get into.)</p>

<p>The Claremonts have different strengths; that’s the easiest way to think of them. Pomona is a first-rate general liberal arts college, one of the finest LACs in the country. Mudd is Carnegie-classified as a LAC; that’s the way they want it, consistent with their mission. Their strength is in technical/science/engineering majors. Claremont-McKenna’s strength and resources are in business, econ, and poli sci. Scripps has always been known for the arts. Pitzer’s strength is in the social and behavioral sciences.</p>

<p>I don’t know if this example will help illuminate some of the differences between Pomona and Mudd. </p>

<p>My S is a Mudd grad, definitely a straight-up quant guy. He “minored” in econ (Mudd doesn’t have minors). He took a couple of econ classes as electives at Pomona. Not entry-level. The classes were no cake-walk, heavy on reading primary sources and analysis. The Pomona kids impressed the heck out of him with their broad knowledge bases and analytical skills. All his upper econ sequence he took at Mudd, where the focus was much more quantitative. Same subject. Different skill sets. Different emphases and perspectives.</p>

<p>Great advice on this thread; I’ve enjoyed reading it, as the mom of a Mudd grad and the mom of another son who is a CS grad of a state school (who now owns an IT consulting business).</p>

<p>Edit: Just saw CountingDown’s post. Agree.</p>

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<p>Really great info here, about all of the schools. It sounds like the consortium has something for everyone. If only us parents had such excellent choices when we were young!</p>

<p>donuthead, you might also check out Carnegie Mellons CS program. It has a top notch program. Also not too large. I have a son there who is extremely happy.</p>