<p>Thankyou soozievt - I did not read all the posts and quickly jumped to the conclusion it was about weighted and unweighted grades. I know that a lot of schools have decided to stop ranking as ranking resulted in a lot of anxiety amongst students and a sense of unfairness. The reality is that even at the most elite ivy league schools, the admission officers are most interested in whether or not the student is in the top 10% of their class. Those schools are looking for many different elements of an applicant and want to see a demonstration of leadership, passion, ect. The applicant who is in the top 1-5 of their high school class and a member of 10 different clubs that mostly meet once a month is no where as impressive as another applicant in the top 10% of the class who has extraordinary passions, and interests outside of school. Most adcoms realize that a student who is in the top 5-10% of a class who is extremely involved outside of the class could probably be in the very top of the class but for those activities. Most adcoms are mostly interested in whether the applicant took the most rigorous curriculum available at their school and how they did unweighted in those grades. Rank is really not that important. At schools like Harvard, Yale and Princeton, applicants who have perfect or near perfect SAT scores and are the top 1 or 2 in their class are often turned down over applicants in the top 5-10% with competitive SAT scores although no where near perfect because of other variables in their application.</p>
<p>What have we come to when a rank in the top 5% of a class (not top 10%, mind you, but top 5%!) is a worrisome statistic?</p>
<p>I don't mean this as any criticism of the OP, or any of the posters here. I understand that we worry about every little aspect of our kids' applications and what might limit their chances at schools important to them.</p>
<p>I just find this one more distressing symptom of what selective college admissions have come to and worthy of a deep.....</p>
<p><em>sigh</em></p>
<p>At least in my opinion.</p>
<p>Yeah, you're right. My son actually thought his rank would plummet because of his AP Calc course where he is teaching himself the material and gets the right answers on tests but the teacher deducts points because he does it differently and she doesn't understand him. Meanwhile, he doesn't understand the way she teaches. He just found out that his grade in this course won't affect his GPA or rank until the end of the year, a big relief. But it shouldn't be such a big deal. He's not going to be a math major. But the schools make such a fuss about the highest level of difficulty in every area...</p>
<p>But wouldn't andison have been in the top 5% of his HS class? Of course he didn't have safeties, you see what I mean.</p>
<p>Bethievt :</p>
<p>In USA majority of upper rich do not take any hard math science and similarly the majority of inner city do not take the hard math science. Thus only middle class end up taking hard math and science. Look the data</p>
<p>If your student is coming from a highschool that is not familiar to a top college, and the adcom is looking at the data, a top 5% rank is not going to do it. They want like the top 3 kids, maybe. If you read Michele Hernandez's "A is for Admissions", she goes into how the class rank is often looked at. Also you can see how rank with testscores can make the academic index, that a number of schools use for admissions too. Ranking helps the very top kids but can really hurt those who are lower in the rankings. By not ranking and giving %s and gpas with school profile, it does hurt the val and sal, but gives more kids a better chance at schools where rank is so crucial. That is why some kids get anxious about ranks that seem very high to us. But a school that regularly sends kids to the top colleges does not have that issue with rank. The adcoms know the way the school works. THat is why it is important to know how many kids with what stats have been getting into a particular college from a given high school. I think it is unfortunate that it works this way with all the hoo haw the adcoms give about wanting diversity, but the truth is that they take more from where they know instead of taking the trouble to getting to know other schools. They'll take it if it is a very poor school and a stellar candidate is emerging, but they just don't get excited by run of the mill schools that are not on their radar screen. I am talking about the most selective colleges with those comments.</p>
<p>Your son will be fine. He's a talented student with great grades, recs, and ECs coming from a geographically desirable location. And he's a male applying to LACs. His biggest problem will be making a decision in the spring.</p>
<p>Agreed. NO WORRIES, MON! (Said with a Jamaican accent ;) )</p>
<p>This is not the right information. It is not true that if the high school is not known that the college will typically only take the top 1-3 if it is a highly selective school. While there are some colleges that are simply numbers oriented, most highly selective schools look at the entire package. Once the applicant has competitive standardized test scores and rigor of curriculum and in the top 10% of the class, other factors come into play. All the other variables in the application come into play. Take a look at any very selective school whether it is a small liberal arts college like Amherst, or an elite ivy league like Princeton. There is no academic formula for getting admitted. The role of the regional reps for each region is to get to know the school and the curriculum so that he or she can present whether the applicant took the most rigorous curriculum the school offered and how they did. Many of the applicants who get into these top schools were not the top 1-3</p>
<p>BethieVT wrote:</p>
<p>
[quote]
But wouldn't andison have been in the top 5% of his HS class? Of course he didn't have safeties, you see what I mean.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Earlier, I was trying to point out that your son (and same as Andi's son)'s top 5% will not keep him out, but IS in range of accepted students....However, even with the "right stats", when you are talking selective schools, many with great stats, still do not get in. Your son has the stats for schools on his list but that is not a guarantee he will get in when the admit rate is low. But his stats won't keep him out. If you look at the stats of accepted students to the colleges on his list, you will notice most likely that a certain percentage ranked in the top 10% and the rest in the top 25% most likely. Not all who got in were in the top 5% but more who were in that range got in at a higher rate of acceptance. Your son's 5% ranking is good enough for any college in the land. It puts him in the ballpark on that one criteria. But there is the entire package. Then there is the sheer selectivity of building a class. He could have what it takes but still not get in. But I very much doubt that his rank itself will keep him out. This is even more so by the fact that he is not applying to Ivies or schools of that sort, even though I believe he has some very selective schools on his list. I gave you the example of my own kid whose rank was lower than your son's and her going to a school with an admit rate that I imagine is close to the admit rate at some of your son's colleges (28%)...actually to be admitted to her program had a 6% admit rate but I was just talking the university itself. She wasn't in the top 5%. Our HS is even less known than yours. I don't think you have to worry, any more than just general anxiety of which schools will give him the nod. If his list is reasonable and I bet it was, then he will have some choices in spring and it is hard to say just which schools those will be but he has a chance at them all. But if he applied to some very selective schools, even the top students can get turned away.</p>
<p>The top ranked student at my daughters VERY competitive school has never taken an unweighted class. She has left the unweighted required art, gym, and health classes to the 2nd semester of 12th grade so that she will be #1 when the semester grades are sent out in Jan. Once she takes those she will her rank will drop down to "normal" very high levels. Some people are just so good at working the system. Makes us feel naive!</p>
<p>Bethie - your son will be fine, he may not get into every school on his list, but he will have great choices, and I predict at least one reach. I think that for LACs, his gender and geography will count at least as much as rank, with a net effect of nothing. I remember the kind of jitters that you are having, and the anguish of just waiting, that those jitters represent.
Looking back now to 2 years ago, I realize that somewhere deep inside, I equated my daughter doing well in the "admissions game" to getting into 100% of her schools, then deciding. That is NOT right. "Doing well" might be defined as having 2-3 schools to choose from. Or, choosing from whatever number of schools are good solid fits. Or, having a number of good merit offers to select among. But "doing well" is not necessarily getting into 100% of your schools, particularly if he has applied to truly selective schools and true reaches. The notion that these schools were carefully picked, then he ought to get in, is false - success is having some of them to choose from.</p>
<p>Good luck to him, he'll be great!</p>
<p>Bethie, I agree with Cangel. And in your case, I really do not believe class rank is going to be the issue. </p>
<p>Midwestandcrazy, that is why some vals and sals are not accepted at some schools. I have also found that with some grading systems, kids with very high weighted gpas may have "C"s and even "D"s in there. They look good in their posts, high gpas, difficult courses, and great test scores, but I can tell you having those "Cats and Dogs" in the picture could wreck selective school prospects.</p>
<p>I also agree with Cangel's point. If a student's college list is an appropriate one for that student, and the student has the stats and qualifications for those schools, and even if there are schools with low admit rates on the list....my feeling going into such a situation is that he/she will get into at least one school (more if there are adequate safeties on the list) and then hope he/she will have a choice, and then the ideal "wish" would be if he/she gets into one of her/his first choices. A student can only attend one school. Having a choice would be nice....getting into one of their top choices is like a "cherry on top". But having the appropriate list is important. I believe your family has researched this a bunch and has created an appropriate list. Success in admissions doesn't mean getting into all the schools or even many but simply getting admitted to a school you would be happy to attend. If the list is the right one, and the student has found many schools in a range that he/she likes, then the outcome should be positive. It was for my kids. They also lucked out in being admitted to and going to one of their first choices but their other acceptances were worthy and they could have been happy to have attended any of them. Also, do not fall in love with ONE particular school. That also is key. Having some collegs that are favored over others is only natural, but liking all the schools on the list is important. A kid can be happy at more than one place, I am sure of it.</p>
<p>midwestandcrazy</p>
<p>Wow! I would never think of something like that. Of course it wouldn't have worked at S's HS since they don't weight and also have to take some of those things freshman year. But what a weird wayto end a hs career. I'm glad my son has some interesting courses heading in to second semester.</p>
<p>i have a question regarding this. what if your class rank is #1 but the high school rating is a "D," which was listed in the secondary school report form sent to the colleges</p>