Concern over 4-year graduation rate

<p>Effects of the budget crisis:</p>

<p>Last year we had furloughs. This meant in all classes, except the ones taught by grad students (which there aren’t many of), we got days off. This may sound nice, but you’re still paying for those days when your class is furloughed and your professor is taking an unpaid day off. Most of my professors had to take 6 days off a quarter.</p>

<p>Fewer sections of classes are being offered, especially GE’s, which makes it more difficult to get into classes that are already difficult to get into. I’ve heard that some lectures will be let go as well.</p>

<p>Also, some classes that were formerly capped at 30 students are now being offered as large lectures. This may not sound so bad since at least more people can get into the class, but can you really learn and teach the same way when you have 120 students in a class where the curriculum was made for classes 1/4 that size? Just something to think about…</p>

<p>Thanks to ralph4 for the valuable info.</p>

<p>If D got admitted, will definitely visit the campus and ask tons of Q’s.</p>

<p>My older cousin attended Cal Poly for his BS Electrical Engineering. He loved Cal Poly and SLO area so much he signed on to double major in EE and Physics at the end of his third year. He ended up graduating in 5 years. But he did say that Cal Poly EE program was academically very challenging and he lived in terror (academically speaking) for 4.8 out of 5 years. And because of the level of challenge, he had to carefully manage the number of engineering courses he can take concurrently per quarter to ensure decent grades.</p>

<p>But, he absolutely chose to extend his stay to 5th year, in fact he was sad to leave Cal Poly after graduation. But his parents were ecstatic, of course, to be able to stop paying for his college. </p>

<p>Also, from what I have researched and what my cousin has told me, business major’s coursework is much easier than engineering and lend itself to much higher class unit load/quarter and thus quicker graduation by far. </p>

<p>From what I have learned through speaking with some Cal Poly graduates, it is true that many students ended up falling in love with the University and SLO area and ended up extending their stay, to their parents’ chagrin, on purpose.</p>

<p>I guess there is some truth to that survey that ranked SLO as the happiest place in the US.</p>

<p>We have a number of friends with adult kids who graduated from Cal Poly several years ago and stayed in SLO or the surrounding area. Their parents enjoy visiting them!</p>

<p>D is a freshman at Cal Poly in the school of business. The dean of the business school conducted one of the parent orientations sessions. He appeared on stage in full academic regalia - cap, gown, deans stole, tassels bells whistles - all the trimmings which apply to his position and achievements. The crowd was a bit taken aback. He began the presentation …</p>

<p>The manner of dress was not because academics like to hang out together in this fashion, but rather as a visual reminder - getting here, getting in is the first step. The next step is graduating and it important for both students and parents to keep an constant eye on that goal. Having made this statement, he followed it with - you CAN graduated in four years and it is the goal of the school to make it happen. According to this gentleman, students can get what they NEED but not always what they WANT. There must be a willingness to accept a 7:00 a.m. class on Monday and 6:00 p.m classe on Friday. If your child is stating they can not accomplish their mission in 4 years ask them which courses they may have turned down for convenience sake.</p>

<p>There is a particular language course only offered once a year. In looking at her schedule D realized if she wanted to pursue a concentration in this language she needed to somehow complete this particular course this year. She met with the head of the program who spent the time to test her skill and subsequently signed a waiver for the course pre-reqs. They are very willing to work with the students. </p>

<p>While we have strongly encouraged D to strive for a 4 year graduation, we’ve also let her know she needs to leave time for some ‘fluff’ courses, you know, the ones just for fun. If it takes her an extra quarter - or even two - it’s okay. Our ability to make this generous offer is due to her choosing a school which allows for debt free attendance.</p>

<p>Well, my son and I visited the campus last weekend and were very impressed with the engineering program. We were told that 95% of graduates are getting jobs, which is huge compared with my alma mater. Not sure if that’s just engineering or in general. Regardless, my son is looking at biomedical engineering, and the program not only seems solid, but it also seems plugged into industry. </p>

<p>To top off the visit, my son was offered a full athletic scholarship, so I think that would make a Cal Poly decision a lot easier in a time of financial uncertainty with tuition and such. Provided he could keep that scholarship for four years, we’d be paying out-of-pocket if he extends his education to a fifth year, but we should be able to save for that possibility. So … it’s looking positive for a Cal Poly SLO education!</p>

<p>I would expect to see a steady increase in the 4 year grad. rate in the coming years, especially by 2014. Cal Poly was one of my daughters top choices and we attended accepted students day last April. Everyone that spoke, from the President of the University, to the Dean of the college of math and science, to the head of the chemistry department, and our two tour guides stated that starting with the incoming 2010 freshman class, getting out in four years or max. four years and one quarter was the focus. The plan:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>As mentioned above kids will have GE classes to take. May not be their first or second choice. Kids may have to settle for a NEED versus a WANT in class or day and time.</p></li>
<li><p>Changing majors. Already can be difficult, now may be impossible. The administration is streamlining their procedures so that they will be able to notify students within one quarter if it is even possible to change your major.</p></li>
<li><p>Minors. Many will not be allowed. It was nice in the past to add that viticulture minor, but if a minor will delay your graduation, it will not be approved. I overheard current students complaining that they were denied a minor. Definitely grumbling going on.</p></li>
<li><p>Cal Poly sets your first quarter schedule. This can be frustrating to someone looking forward to the freedom and choice they have heard exists at college. However, you will be given your Area A gen ed. and any other math or science courses fall quarter in order to get the pre-requisites out of the way and make scheduling easier going forward. </p></li>
<li><p>This one illustrated just how serious CP is about getting kids out on time. I wish I could remember who said it. He was telling us that someone will be monitoring your progress through the Poly Portal (not sure what it is called exactly). If you mess up (fail, take wrong classes etc) you will have one quarter to get back on track. If not, and I quote “Cal Poly will find you a tutor, a counselor, or a new institution.” They mean business. They want the 4th years out to make room for the freshman.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Cal Poly is a great school if you know what you want to do, work hard and pass your classes the first time, and don’t mind taking GE classes you wouldn’t necessarily choose in order to meet the grad. requirements. </p>

<p>If the school is successful in implementing these steps and the grad. rate increases, demand will surely follow. I suspect that CP will become even more selective in the future. Many excellent candidates don’t even bother to apply these days because of the fear of not being able to graduate on time.</p>

<p>Good Luck to those awaiting news.</p>

<p>chromedome that’s awesome, congrats to your son! My son has 2 housemates who are biomedical engineering majors. It’s very challenging. Add athletics to the mix and your son is going to have to work very hard, but perhaps he can schedule a light quarter during the most intense part of his sports schedule.</p>

<p>kelliebeff, it would be great if they could implement those changes and really get the 4 year grad rate up. Won’t help my son however. But I wonder if they can really do it. </p>

<p>Addressing the points you made:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>GE classes to take: My son was not picky about his GE classes. He really wasn’t that interested in any of them, just taking them because he had to. Still had problems getting the right ones to fit the requirements.</p></li>
<li><p>Changing majors: He went in as a mechanical engineer and never has changed his major.</p></li>
<li><p>Minors: Did not go for a minor. Did go into the mechatronics area within ME, but that was not the issue for the 5th year.</p></li>
<li><p>Cal Poly sets your first quarter schedule: That would be great. My son was way down on the registration proiority list his first quarter freshman year. Ended up taking some classes that weren’t really meant for freshman (but had no re-req’s) but were on his list of classes that he needed. They were all he could get into and they proved to be very difficult for him. He got a D in one. Retook that class to better his GPA and actually learn the stuff. That certainly didn’t help the 4 year problem.</p></li>
<li><p>Monitoring your progress: Not sure what they mean with this one. If they expect you to overload your schedule to “get back on track” that is a disaster waiting to happen. If you didn’t cut it with a regular class load, then over loading is only going to make it worse. If it means to track your progress and make sure you pick up your grades, you’re still behind as far as progress toward graduation.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Budget cuts are going to make the situation worse. The only way I can see that they can make the 4 year thing happen is to admit fewer students. In that way, maybe the students they do admit can get the classes they need.</p>

<p>Congrats on your son’s athletic scholarship to CPSLO chromedome! He will work very hard in the biomedical engineering major, but it does seem like a good program there. Being plugged in to industry and jobs is a big plus! One of the reasons my son chose CP as well. He also loves the weather and area. Your son is making a great choice!</p>

<p>I agree with HPuck35’s comment:
“5. Monitoring your progress: Not sure what they mean with this one. If they expect you to overload your schedule to “get back on track” that is a disaster waiting to happen. If you didn’t cut it with a regular class load, then over loading is only going to make it worse. If it means to track your progress and make sure you pick up your grades, you’re still behind as far as progress toward graduation.”</p>

<p>My son is a 2nd year Engineering major and loves it. He did have a very bad rotation number his 2nd quarter and could not get into necessary support courses, which were pre-reqs for everything else. The advisors told him to try and get some GEs - otherwise, load up the next quarter when he has a better rotation. He crashed 4 GEs and couldn’t get in - they were giving preference to upper classmen and he ended up with a very light quarter. He did load up the next quarter as he was ableto get the support courses he needed. Although he did pass everything, he did end up on AP (just barely). This puts a lot of stress on the student as CP takes AP very seriously. </p>

<p>Although he’s off AP and now very close to being on-track for 4 years, due to high school AP credits, we’re realistically looking at 4 years plus 1 or 2 quarters. I wouldn’t recommend ‘overloading’ to catch up, especially if you have lab/project courses.</p>

<p>Bottom line is that Engineering is HARD at Cal Poly and the work load to graduate in 4 years is HEAVY. In order to stay on track, you must take 16-18 units (with NO FLUFF) every quarter and PASS everything. My son has taken 16-18 units/qtr and has gotten on and off Academic Probation (AP) twice. He has never tried to change his major or add a minor, although he has taken a couple of extra IME courses (he likes working in the machine shop). Since he had AP credit from high school for 3 courses, he was able to take the extra IME classes and still stay on track (mostly). He has repeated 4 required courses (all support) for grade improvement. He is now on track to graduate in August (4 years + 1 summer) and, although he loves CP and SLO, he is very ready to be DONE with school. A Cal Poy Engineering degree is quite an accomplishment, and there is good reason that 95% of Cal Poly Engineers are getting jobs. :)</p>

<p>Agree with all that have said engineering is hard. My son is a 5th year CSC major and all CSC classes are hard and lots of work. Retaking classes and changing majors set him back two quarters. The professors won’t just hand a student an easy grade just to inflate GPAs or improve professor evaluations; they want students to know the subject matter. By the time son’s passed a CSC class (most of the time prerequisites to another class), he really knows his stuff. So he is very proficient at programming and I’m really amazed at what Cal Poly is teaching. There is no doubt in my mind why Cal Poly engineering grads are so sought after. This “Learning By Doing” approach really makes Cal Poly grads ready for industry upon graduation.</p>

<p>Son finished all non-major classes early in the 4th year, so only classes in his major were left. Taking 4 major classes a quarter is a set up for failure because of the heavy workload. So he’s been taking only 3 CSC classes per quarter and that was enough. This and other reasons given extended his graduation 2 quarters.</p>

<p>By the fourth year, he’s taking a few specialty classes that are really stimulating. So much so that now he’s starting the Blended BS/MS program, in order to take more classes. He wants to stay in school.</p>

<p>So if a student or parent is turned off to Cal Poly because of the potential for graduating late, please consider what all a student will learn. Yes, there were problems (most likely faced at all UCs & CSUs) such as getting classes, budgetary issues, climbing tuition, etc. but the rewards are great.</p>

<p>Well said eduparent! Although paying for the extra quarters is a concern, I am okay if my son takes extra time at Cal Poly. I want him to be successful in his major and to be able to experience the “extra” things that SLO offers. Of course they are pushing kids to graduate on time (4 years), but I think the more important thing is that students learn the material and skills they will need to be successful. I believe he will take a solid load each quarter, but I don’t want him to over do things either and then be too stressed out or be unable to be involved in clubs and such. He is in engineering as well and I am sure that it isn’t uncommon for students to take more than 4 years in any strong engineering program.</p>

<p>It sounds like your son has done a great job and will graduate with a strong engineering background. The blended BS/MS program is a goal of my son’s as well. My son is only a freshman, so right now I can say, no hurry! Stay in school for as long as it takes to get a good education. I am sure that may change after 3-4 years of paying the tuition and room and board!</p>