<p>Hey, I'm currently a high school senior and going through the dreaded application process. I have thought about applying to UMich but recently have debated this issue. I know people like to claim that UMich is a school of excellent caliber, but many of my friends are using it as their safety. Mind you that we're out of state and their guidance counselors recommended that it is indeed a reasonable safety for them.
Lastly, and my biggest concern, it seems that all the UMich students I know or hear about all have huge inferiority complexes. They all seem to feel that it is equivalent in prestige to an ivy, but the fact of the matter is that it's not. I hate to stereotype, but I feel that all those UMich students somehow try to justify to themselves and to me how it has all the top-ranked programs among every academic discipline. It's simply absurd. I mean, even the easiest ivy to get into, Cornell, is never really anyone's safety.</p>
<p>michigan business and engineering> a lot of ivy's</p>
<p>It's simply absurd that it's easier to get into a school that accepts more people?</p>
<p>Michigan as a whole isn't as prestigious as the Ivy League schools, but the top 10-15% is. Graduate schools, employers, etc. generally view top students coming out of Michigan more or less on equal footing with students coming out of Ivy League schools (depends on the specific field and which Ivy you're comparing to). Differences in outcomes between top Michigan students and Ivy League students will generally have far more to do with the individual rather than the institution they chose to attend for undergrad.</p>
<p>I think a big mistake lots of people make is the assumption that everybody at a school is an average student amongst the student body. The fact is, as an individual you're just as intellectually capable no matter which school you go to. If you're capable of going to an Ivy League school and doing well, then you're capable of being in the top 10% at Michigan, where you'll have comparable peers, comparable resources, comparable faculty, etc. The difference is for Ivy League schools you "prove your worth" with things from high school at admissions, whereas at Michigan the battle isn't as much with admissions but what you're capable of once you get to college.</p>
<p>The other big difference is that pesky other 90%, which has it drawbacks (not everybody will be your intellectual peer), but it also has its benefits (much more diverse student body in all senses of the word, major college athletics, party life, etc.). If you truly excel in your field (and choose to do the Honors college, if you care about your peers in non-major classes), you really won't notice the "other 90%" in your academic life.</p>
<p>Buy a copy of the USNWR. One of the students profiled got into Columbia and was waitlisted into Michigan. Many students over the last couple of years have been admitted into elite private universities and rejected by Michigan. Yes, Michigan is not as hard to get into as many private elites. It is, afterall, 3-5 times larger than most private elites. But I would never apply to Michigan as a safety.</p>
<p>The only sense in which UM could ever be considered a safety is if you get in early during the admissions cycle.</p>
<p>Some morons do actually consider Cornell a safety for themselves, I've seen this when I was in high school. People will say things, bottomline is, when you come to Michigan, you can choose any major, and it'll most likely be a top 10 program. The students will range from those that barely got in, to people who turned down every school from usnews ranked 1-10 to come to Michigan. Professors are as renowned as any school in the world. (although we tend to lose mid-career professors recently)</p>
<p>Do understand though, that the math/science majors will be as competitive as any school, and that degree will be much harder to obtain than getting a few points higher on the SAT.</p>
<p>For nearly EVERY school outside of the elite, it will be a safety for some portion of the applicant pool. For others it is a match, yet others a reach. People in all these categories may consider the institution their dream school; others have it pretty far down on their list. Maybe your circle of acquaintance doesn't show a lot of diversity in regards to where Michigan falls on their list, but that doesn't mean they reflect most applicants.</p>
<p>Similarly, Michigan (and other schools) may have some people on campus who have defensive views about its prestige, but they're not everyone.</p>
<p>Anyone can talk a big game on CC. Come back when the adcomm is done with you, and let me know how the caliber is then. Also, if you "hate to stereotype," don't.</p>
<p>Go easy on him/her fireandrain11. You have to remember you're addressing a 17-18 year old.</p>
<p>alexandere can answer your question best here.</p>
<p>
Those are exceptions and not the norm. If you have a 3.8 UW and 33+ ACT instate, admission to Michigan is a virtual guarantee.</p>
<p>The OP is right about the characterization of Michigan students. Many kids who go there are incredulous about the fact that some kids would choose Dartmouth, Penn, Duke, etc. over Michigan in-state when in reality, it should be a no-brainer. UMich is an amazing school but it is top 25 at best.</p>
<p>I turned down the Shipmans at UM for a non-HYP school. People thought I was crazy but I know that only a few schools in the world besides the one I attend is going to provide me with the incredible classroom, social and professional resources that I need to fulfill my potential and UMich isn't one of them.</p>
<p>"Those are exceptions and not the norm."</p>
<p>Not really. I would say of the 10-15 cases I am closely involved with annually, I see it happen a couple of times each year. It is not as common as the other way around, but it happens...and the frequency will only increase in time.</p>
<p>"If you have a 3.8 UW and 33+ ACT instate, admission to Michigan is a virtual guarantee."</p>
<p>I would agree with that statement if you added the following words at the begining of the sentence; "For in-state students who apply before November". </p>
<p>Also, try to remember that the OP is from OOS.</p>
<p>You know I've noticed something about people who love to say "Michigan is a top 25 school at best"... that is... most of them picked a private school over Michigan instate. </p>
<p>I'm no expert on behavioral psychology, but sounds a bit like justifying for buyers' remorse.</p>
<p>ringoffire - more than half your posts are spent insulting a school you never went to. regret your school choice or something?</p>
<p>especially since you said in anther post (in reference to the ivies):
"
Save some money and go to a good state school. If you work hard, you will end up in the same place. If you do get a good job, then you'll have the personal satisfaction of knowing that you spent 4 years of college hanging out with hot girls and partying every weekend and ENDED IN THE SAME PLACE as many Harvard or MIT kids who somehow thought that going to HYPSM and doing well would get them some sort of golden job that only HYPSM kids have access to and that sacrificing a social life in college is worth it in the long run."</p>
<p>Haha no, I used Harvard and a typical state school as extremes to get my point across. I am about to graduate from a school which offers better academic opportunities than UMich and easily rivals it with regards to social life. It's a happy medium between Harvard and ASU if you will.</p>
<p>It's definitely not buyer's remorse in my case because I feel that the college I attend is better than UMich in every way besides the fact that Ann Arbor is a better college town. However, I can see how someone who goes to Harvard might regret his decision if he hates his actual college experience.</p>
<p>I think Michigan is a great school. It's not comparable to any of the the top 20 schools, let alone places like Penn and Dartmouth that this poster Alexandre keeps insinuating.</p>
<p>alexander, i think you are overrating uofm.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you have a 3.8 UW and 33+ ACT instate, admission to Michigan is a virtual guarantee.
[/quote]
Don't count on it if you are OOS. I know several students who got admitted by Cornell, Chicago, Northwestern, CMU, WUSTL and Cal/UCLA last year only to be waitlisted by Michigan. I also know some students with similiar or better stats than above who got waitlisted. All of them applied after the Early Response deadline.</p>
<p>ExarKun, care to explain how I am overrating Michigan? I usually have live cases to illustrate my points.</p>
<p>As opposed to relying on urban legends or third-hand opinions, do some real research based on your individual circumstances.</p>
<p>For instance, my son is a second year Math major at Michigan. At the time he made his choice, he had merit scholarship offers from both Chicago and Michigan (note: USNWR graduate school math ranking are Chicago #6 and Michigan #9). He was looking for an intensive, theoretical, proof-based program and found that this type of program is currently offered at four schools in the country. At this point, he is in the second year of this analysis series and also is taking two other graduate level math classes. All of his math classes have been 15-20 students with a full professor.</p>
<p>My point is that sweeping generalizations and hyperbole like "my school is better than X" really does nothing other than display the ignorance or naivety of the poster. Better in what area - engineering, financial aid, sports, facilities, food at the Union, olympic swimmers? You need to assess what is important to you and see how each school measures up.</p>
<p>just for reference...myself and at least three of my close friends applied to Notre Dame as first choice and Michigan as a back up (as is commonplace for my area). Needless to say, none of us got in to Notre Dame so we all went to UMich (which was pretty easy to get into.</p>
<p>U of M is a good school but I really do agree with the "inferiority complex" that was brought up in the initial post. Approach a Michigan Man (or Woman) and they will bite your head off if you ever denigrate the school. It is almost like U of M people aren't comfortable in their own skin so they overcompensate. Sure, the top 10-15% are Ivy eligible...but think about it, so are the top 7% at MSU.</p>
<p>just food for thought.</p>