<p>hey, so I am currently a freshman in ILR about to start my second semester. I am discovering that I am really not that interested in human resources and that I am not sure I would like to go into law or business (not really sure), and that I would like more a liberal arts education and less of the applied and almost trade school classes that ILR offers. I am currently pursuing a minor in International Relations and thinnnnkkk (not sure) I would be happier as a gov't major in arts and science. However, I feel like the ILR career services and tight night community is not something I should give up as (unless I am mistaking) ILR has one of the best career services on campus, the grads are successful, and they stick together. I just do not really feel satisfied taking classes in HR, etc. for the the rest of my time at Cornell where I actually enjoy taking English courses, government, some business, etc. I mean, I do not dislike ILR, I just have a hunch I might be happier as a gov't major. However, I also fear that transferring to gov't and arts and sciences may be a huge hassle (I have no grounding for this claim) and I fear that it may be a mistake leaving ILR...I really am not sure, any help is appreciated.</p>
<p>My D is an ILR major and an Information Science (computers) concentration. She has taken business courses (accounting, finance) and many statistics courses. ILR students have a lot of opportunity for taking electives. Instead of taking IS, Bus or stat courses, my D could have been taking English or govt. courses.</p>
<p>Instead of asking CC what to do, take some of the classes you think you might be interested in.</p>
<p>First, are you in-state or out-of-state, and is tuition a consideration for you?</p>
<p>Secondly, I would argue that you have plenty of opportunities to take English, government, economics, or even engineering or art history courses as an ILR student. The curriculum is structured so that you have 33 free electives (meaning anything at Cornell) and 40 ILR electives (many of which can be fulfilled by liberal arts courses in the Arts schools). Moreover, you can also petition for any course or independent study to count towards your ILR electives -- I myself was able to get a British social history, political philosophy of inequality, economics of the European Union, and Victorian novel course all applied towards my ILR degree. The ILR degree is very flexible -- it can be a pre-business or a liberal arts program -- but all through the lens of a very interesting, and very important, world view.</p>
<p>If you think you might be happier as a government major, definitely explore the courses in the department. I myself thought I sometimes might be happier as a history/econ major, but with the number of courses that the ILR school honored in the econ department, it didn't make sense for me:</p>
<p>ILR</a> Office of Student Services - Out-of-College Options for ILR Electives</p>
<p>I would also take issue with the concept that most of the courses in ILR are 'trade school' courses. The only course that I think satisfies such a label would be HR -- everything else is firmly grounded within the liberal arts.</p>
<p>The other thing to note is that the ILR school faculty are wonderfully accessible and responsive. There are tons of opportunities for research are independent study with them -- if you want to study business strategy, social psychology and group behavior, labor markets in developing countries, or American social history, it's all very much possible through the ILR school. Don't believe? One girl in my graduating class specialized in the social history of the American worker in the 50s and 60s and is now getting her PhD at Stanford in American literature from that time period.</p>
<p>But if you just honestly aren't interested in labor market issues (and I was fascinated by them), then transferring to Arts might be the better option.</p>
<p>Your answer is great C-Red. I too wanted to mention that the trade school anology is ridiculous. And not to mention that some of the ILR Prof'S are world renowned in their field.</p>
<p>To the op, what is your goal?</p>
<p>alright, the "trade school" comment was hyperbolic. I was kind of worked up when I wrote this. I honestly do not know if I want to go into business (which would also imply an MBA eventually), law school, or go into politics (namely working on campaigns, not necessarily being a politician myself). I KNOW that I do not want to do HR, I do not think it would be satisfying for me at all. I feel like somebody who is so unsure in what they want to do may, at the end of their time in ILR, kind of end up doing HR by default as, when looking briefly at the career fairs listings etc., there are so many people recruiting for that field. Also, I do not want to this to come off in the wrong way, but I feel like the people in arts and sciences gov't and econ majors are more engaging and interesting. I am out of state and I am kind of overwhelmed by all of the Long Island Law School oriented kids in ILR. They are all smart, but do not at ALL seem that interested in intellectual pursuits...just getting good grades, going to law school, and writing their resume. While most my friends from arts and sciences are much more engaging to talk to and are in general more interested in politics, current events, etc. I am NOT saying ILR kids are less intelligent than these other kids, but I feel like most of them have decided what they want to do and are at Cornell to finish the requirements and take easy electives to get a high GPA. I can not emphasis enough that I am not saying ILR kids are less intelligent, but definitely distinct. I am by no means somebody who purely wants to be in college just to gather knowledge (hence my concern about leaving what I sense to be a great career services in ILR), but something does not feel quite right for me.</p>
<p>This is an easy one to answer. If you have the time and money, in terms of tuition and graduation date and career path, you will switch to Arts and Sciences. If you don't have these things, then you'll have to make the best out of ILR. It sounds like you already know where you want to be, and it seems pretty clear that you're thinking clearly and seeing your situation accurately when it comes to this issue. Nobody blames you. The state schools aren't liberal arts schools. It's called ILR for a reason. :)</p>
<p>I'm also going to take a wild guess and say that your grades aren't so hot in ILR so far. Did I make a lucky guess?</p>
<p>I don't know exactly what's involved in transferring from ILR to A&S, and I'd be interested in hearing, but I bet it's not easy. If that's what you need to do, I recommend doing it AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. And not waiting. The longer you wait, the more expensive it's going to be.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Bron -- </p>
<p>Unless the demographics of the ILR school have changed considerably over the last year or two, I actually think you will find that there are a lot of students in your situation, both from in-state and out-of-state. I had many of the same reservations that you have during my own freshmen year, but I soon found a core group of similarly minded friends both in and outside of the ILR school.</p>
<p>The only way you would end up doing HR is if you want to do HR. Nobody is going to hold a gun to your head and tell you what you should and should not do with your education. Of my core group of friends and acquaintances from ILR, we have:</p>
<p>-- worked for the Federal Reserve System
-- worked for major investment banks
-- worked as union organizers
-- worked as labor arbiters for the NLRB
-- enrolled in PhD programs in economics, political science, history, and English
-- attended law school and earned prestigious clerkships
-- become a corporate recruiter for Google
-- worked for a NHL franchise
-- worked for a Fortune 500 company in India
-- worked for major political campaigns
-- signed up for Teach for America
-- won Rhodes and Fulbright Scholarships
-- obtained a Master's in International Relations and worked for the Department of State
-- worked for NGOs in DC and internationally
-- worked for economic and public consulting companies</p>
<p>What's funny is that aside from the corporate recruiter for Google, none of us went into an HR field. And, actually, the Google job sounds kind of sweet.</p>
<p>The fact that you are out of state makes the question more interesting. There's no tuition incentive for you to stay in ILR, so I would definitely encourage you to explore classes in Arts next semester. At the same time, I would encourage you to delve a little bit deeper with some of the ILR professors as well -- see if you can't talk about research opportunities with professors of political science like Cook or Givan, or even the history professors like Cowie or Salvatore. If you do transfer to Arts, it should be pretty easy provided you have the B+ or higher grades. And somehow I suspect you do.</p>
<p>From my own experience, I have been personally and professionally enriched by the unique perspective that ILR brings to the student -- the way in which society organizes itself to "work" touches every aspect of our lives, and the more you look around, the more you see the implications of the subjects you learn in ILR everyday. It's a unique perspective, and what's so powerful is that you get to overlay your own interests in economics, government, psychology, English, etc. over that.</p>
<p>There are a fair number of us ILRies on these boards in a similar position to you -- myself, intl_echo, rendeli -- so I don't think you are alone. They may be able to chime in on their own experiences.</p>
<p>As Cayuga mentioned, I can relate to your concerns. ILR does have a pre-professional bent, but whatever your interests may be, I assure you that there are others at ILR who have them too. </p>
<p>Unless you're averse to studying labor issues entirely, you might want to consider doing research with an ILR prof (who are typically trained in the disciplines) and take electives outside of ILR. You also might consider MS or PhD programs. Anecdotally, myself and others have had enormous success applying to well-funded top disciplinary PhD programs that were interested in bringing in a student with a unique competency in labor issues, even if we had only a few courses in their discipline. </p>
<p>You also might consider studying abroad-- most of those I knew who took a semester away from Cornell found their own unorthodox passion during that time. There are a ton of opportunities for those who make a coherent venture off the beaten track. </p>
<p>Sorry this is so anecdotal, but naturally, departure from the norm is inherently difficult to categorize!</p>
<p>traditionally the study of labor relations has been reserved to the masters and phD level (outside of cornell and that other school in penn.) </p>
<p>so a student might study govt or psych and then come to ILR to study usually because they wound up in an ILR field and need the masters to move up...</p>
<p>i can relate to the feeling that ILR is pre-professional...but most people are...even in CAS...</p>
<p>the truth is that with this economic crisis a job is a privilege...</p>
<p>there's nothing wrong with being pre-professional...all that means is you're planning on getting a job after graduation, preferably one that pays well. I think that's a good thing...at some point, we're all going to have to get jobs, unless you're planning on winning the lottery or marrying rich. I go to a very artsy college and I can't tell you how many people i've met majoring in film, theatre, and the like, who have taken out $160K in loans to afford this school... personally, if acting was my passion, I wouldn't go into extreme debt, i'd find a reasonably priced college...I hope cornell students are more practical. cornell also seems to be more math/sci oriented and pre-professional, that's the kind of college i'm applying to.</p>
<p>Indeed, my passions are all over the humanities and social sciences, and for that reason, I love ILR. I see the multidisciplinary approach of ILR as a valuable framework for analyzing issues in my out-of-college courses in Government, History, American Studies, and Public Policy. No social issue any of us will ever confront will fall neatly into economics, political science, law, or international relations: six different approaches to solving problems makes for the creative and dynamic solutions we need. </p>
<p>Though I'm pretty outspoken about my love for our major, I admit that it has its flaws. I do believe that its advertised too heavily as a pre-law program, and there are plenty of obnoxious pre-law kids in ILR, to be sure. I can't pretend like my ILR girlfriends and I don't blame much of our persistent single-ness on the fact that conversations with guys in our major don't cover much more than their frat, varsity team, or law school plans. </p>
<p>However, my most recent Government class was full of obnoxious pre-law Gov majors, American Studies majors, and English majors. There are jerks in every major, even if they aren't pre-professional.There is a career-oriented bent to Cornell as a whole, especially ILR, but can you really blame most people for wanting a decent job after dropping $200k on an education? Theoretical and practical is one of the things ILR does best, and since our curriculum is all about the working life, it should follow that we care about our careers. </p>
<p>I think you should continue to give ILR a chance and really try to take advantage of the other services ILR boasts, not just OCS. I completely second the previous suggestion to try to get involved in ILR research. Between my two jobs, I work on higher ed and globalization issues, none of which are purely about unions, but both fall into the purview of ILR. Having two jobs is tricky, but it absolutely enriches my coursework, both inside and outside of ILR. </p>
<p>Moreover, if all of your classmates are pre-law d-bags, in theory, they won't be hogging your professors' time, and you won't have any competition in staying after class to talk to them. If everyone else in the major is only concerned about law school and their social life, you will have all the more opportunities to build relationships with the professors that they are ignoring.</p>
<p>It might be rough now, but as soon as you get chances to take ILR electives in the fields you like, you will find it much easier to meet top-notch ILRies who really care about what they are studying. We're out there, I promise! You also never know when a professor will inspire you.</p>
<p>not to mention us ILRies are all over this board :OoOo</p>
<p>hey echo! we've yet to meet in person XD</p>
<p>
[quote]
conversations with guys in our major don't cover much more than their frat, varsity team, or law school plans.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sounds just like us, right ren?</p>
<p>Come on, I know I could talk to you about econ, statistics, and politics, too!</p>
<p>Ha. I was being sarcastic. Although I could probably talk at length about the varsity hockey, basketball, wrestling, and lacrosse teams.</p>
<p>Haha, and I was in a frat <=P</p>
<p>That's right, Ren. How could I forget that you were in Theta Drug?</p>
<p>Heh heh... thanks Cayuga, and now through Theta Drug I blew my smoke, my grades, and (with your help) my cover</p>