<p>Thank you, everyone, for all of your kind and thoughtful input. I didn’t think my dilemma would generate so many responses! Just to update you… my parents and I had a long discussion tonight, complete with charts, graphs and input from this thread, and we’ve narrowed it down to two choices: Notre Dame and UVA. It’s a relief to have it down to two, but now I have to make the final choice. My dad prefers one, my mom prefers the other, and I’m still totally undecided because they both have pros and cons. If anyone has thoughts on either of these two schools, any input is appreciated!</p>
<p>I can’t pretend to be directly familiar with either one. I know that ND has plenty of devotees, but it is not a type of school–huge big-time sports orientation, strongly Catholic, blah location–that appeals to me. I see UVA as academically superior, beautiful, rich with history. Obviously these descriptions reflect my personal prejudices and point of view. So will everyone else’s opinion. :)</p>
<p>What do YOU see as the pros and cons?</p>
<p>Between those two, Notre Dame would be my pick. I LOVE the sense of community there, unique to that school, the way they set up their living communities especially. I love the campus as well. Notre Dame will carry more national name recognition and a hugely active alumni association–probably the best in the country, if that is important to you. Notre Dame is about 1/2 the size of UVA as well. That has a lot of pluses, especially given that Notre Dame has the programming of a much larger school. The school is also set up in such a way that getting a double major is almost a given. That increases your job prospects down the road or allows you to study one area for career opportunities and one area for “fun” at the same cost.</p>
<p>Down the road, since most students at ND stay on campus all 4 years, no worries about finding an apartment, dealing with crappy landlords, etc.</p>
<p>My vote is also ND. Unless you are in state VA. It is annoying to pay private school prices for what the vast majority of kids at the school are paying a mere fraction, IMO. The cost differential is steep for in state and out of state at that school, and to me, not worth it if there are other choices. Especially, given that many of the OOSers have awards of sorts such as athletic scholarships so you will be one of the top payers in the student body.</p>
<p>It’s been interesting to follow your deliberations since you started this thread. Congrats on narrowing it down to two! </p>
<p>Hands down, UVA!</p>
<p>My vote also goes to UVA. It’s definitely worth a visit if you have not done so.</p>
<p>Great thread. We are also full-pay, dropped the lowest cost colleges from the list, and are planning to make financial sacrifices so that our D can go to UVA or ND. Have been to UVA several times (it’s fabulous) and we are going to ND for the first time tomorrow. In my thought process, she will have to fall madly in love with ND for the extra $$ and travel time/cost. </p>
<p>OP - Have you been to both schools and what do you think?</p>
<p>I haven’t posted before but I’ve been a lurker for years. I don’t have experience with many of these schools, but I do with Tulane and New Orleans. Tulane is definitely an excellent school. My husband and I attended Tulane for graduate school in the 80s, and return regularily for Jazz Fest and Mardi Gras. Obviously my impressions are mostly formed pre-Katrina but the city isn’t entirely different now and I would not send my 18 year old to New Orleans unless they really really really wanted to be there, and even then I’d think twice. The OP’s concern about parties is dead on. The party scene isn’t only a Tulane thing- it’s city wide; bars offer three-fers for happy hour, not two-fers, 99 cent 20oz beers are freely available in the French Quarter (and last year my 18 son and friends had NO problem getting served anywhere), drive-thru drink bars still exist, etc. Yes, it’s very possible to not drink in New Orleans but the overall culture is alcohol centered without doubt- even post-Katrina. If the OP is uncomfortable with that, she’s correct in being hesitant to attend Tulane. There’s no place quite like New Orleans; we love it, but it is not for everyone. </p>
<p>No one has mentioned the crime. Consider it. New Orleans is a violent city. I’ve lived in Atlanta, Boston, Seattle and several cities in between, and New Orleans is by far the most violent. I feel much less safe there than I do in the area surrounding USC. No question. If OP has no city smarts, consider comfort level on the streets. The Tulane medical school is not on the uptown campus. I worked there and the commute via street car to the Super Dome area (the medical school is across the street from Charity Hospital) had it’s “interesting” moments for sure. </p>
<p>If the OP was my child, I would revisit UT, Baylor and U Miami before recommending Tulane for a young girl expressing hesitance to go there.</p>
<p>I loved my years in NO, but culturally it is not likely anywhere else in the US, and the OP should want to be there for the cool and different place that it is or she could very well end up looking to transfer in no time at all.</p>
<p>I adore UVA. But will say this: if your Catholicism was important enough to you to drop Baylor, perhaps it’s a strong consideration about ND.<br>
Glad you have the relationship with your parents to handle this as you have.</p>
<p>Since the OP has narrowed her choices down to UVA and ND, this may be irrelevant. But as a parent of a child who currently lives in NOLA and will be staying there, I agree with some, but not all, of hardstuff’s observations. Yes, NOLA is a unique place and offers unique opportunities. Yes NOLA as a city is very lax when it comes to rules relating to alcohol,particularly in their tourist areas (eg the French quarter). Some students take full advantage of it, others do not. They have tightened up the policies at the bar near campus (The Boot) and are also firmer with the fraternities as well. </p>
<p>As for safety, as has been addressed many times in the Tulane Forum, most of the crime in NOLA is nowhere near campus. Most is elsewhere in NOLA, not uptown. There has unfortunately been an increase in some incidents near campus this year, and the school and NOPD have worked cooperatively to address it. </p>
<p>My DS lived at GA Tech this summer and I was frankly more concerned for his safety there than in NOLA. There have been several attacks/robberies on/near Tech’s campus in the past year or so, and his car was broken into in the campus parking deck during the 2 or so mos he lived there. It has never happened in the 4 years he has been in NOLA. Anyone going to school in an urban area should always have their smarts about them and not take unnecessary risks. The advantages of being in an urban area do not come without some disadvantages, that is true. Charlottesville and Notre Dame will definitely offer a different town experience.</p>
<p>As for the OP, I’d throw my vote also to UVA.</p>
<p>I vote ND. </p>
<p>I am Catholic and, as you undoubtedly know, ND is THE school for practicing Catholics. The sense of community at ND is very strong. The alumni network is unreal.</p>
<p>ND isn’t all that diverse. UVa is more diverse, but, unless things have changed in the last couple of years, the students self-segregate racially. (This caused real problems for one of my young neighbors who is bi-racial.) </p>
<p>ND has some rules regarding things like “parietals,” i.e. hours the opposite sex can be in dorm rooms, etc., that differentiate it from many schools. Some people hate these. Most parents love them :)! </p>
<p>I disagree with those who think UVa has a better academic rep. IMO, ND does. FWIW, US News ranks it higher. ND also has a better faculty/student ratio. </p>
<p>However, ND has HORRIBLE weather. If you’re from Texas, this is not a small consideration.</p>
<p>What anyone on this board thinks doesn’t matter. You’ve got great choices. They are very different schools, but both are fine. Visit and go with your gut!</p>
<p>Both are great schools. The difference in ratings is unimportant. The OP should attend the school she finds more inspiring.</p>
<p>For me, they would both be too conservative. But that’s not at all relevant to the OP’s situation.</p>
<p>How do we know what you want? Do you want parents helping you financially in Med. School? Or you want to go to expansive UG and take loans? Or maybe your family is willing to foot the bill for both? Only you can make this choice. I am not so sure about reasons for others to advise one way or another without knowing many details.
I am also not clear about your goal. Education in general means nothing to me, getting accepted to Med. School will not be influenced by which UG on your list you will attend. All kind of opportunites are absolutely everywhere, more are opne to top students. Again, if Med. School in plans, you will have to be at the top no matter where you go.</p>
<p>I’ve been to ND and am going to UVA this weekend. Here’s my pros/cons:</p>
<p>Both seem to be equal academically. Facilities at ND are amazing - I haven’t seen UVA yet. Both have high admit rates into med school (somewhere around 75-80%). Both have great research opportunites. Both have gorgeous campuses, big school spirit, and students seem happy there. UVA has greek life, but ND’s dorm system kind of replaces that (without having to go through rush). ND has the Catholic stuff going on, which is a plus, but not a huge issue.</p>
<p>Here’s where they differ:</p>
<p>Classes/Advising: UVA is bigger, with lots of really huge classes. More clases taught by TAs and harder to meet with professors. Getting into classes you need seems to be a big problem. Some students say they feel like a number, and that advising is not very helpful. ND seems the opposite - much smaller classes and very helpful advisors.</p>
<p>Grading: I’m trying to find more about this, but it looks like there’s a lot of bell curve grading at UVA which makes students really competitive with each other. ND doesn’t do that so students are more helpful to each other with tutoring, study groups, etc.</p>
<p>Location: Charlottesville sounds like a great college town; mountains nearby with lots of outdoor recreation; D.C. is a couple hours away. South Bend is… blah. But Chicago is close.</p>
<p>Weather: This is huge. I love the warm weather and winter in South Bend scares me to death. Virginia can get cold too, but not as bad or as long. This is my biggest worry about ND.</p>
<p>I love UVA, but quite frankly, I would not pay full out-of-state tuition for a public university. Of the points you mentioned, large classes and grading on the curve should be a concern. Also, would you be able to enroll in the honors program at UVA?</p>
<p>Over four years, UVA will be about $106,000 more than UofT. One is in Charlottesville; the other in Austin. Year and a half of med school. </p>
<p>Sounds like people with lots of money to burn. I wish them well; it is, after all, their money.</p>
<p>PinkDalmatian, I am so impressed with how much thought you have put into this decision-making process. I’m sure that your UVA visit will give you some more clarity. As someone who is acutely effected by the weather, I can see how that can be a factor in your decision. I lived in Charlottesville for a couple years and found the weather there to be very pleasant.</p>
<p>Best wishes to you.</p>
<p>Check to see if classe are actually “taught” by TA’s or only the “discussion sections” which accompany most large intro classes. Also want to caution you about “med school acceptance rates.” This isn’t number of freshman coming in with pre-med plans, who later get into med school. (Often tracked as “one of their 3 top choices.”) At many schools, the early pre-meds are seriously weeded out, through tough courses. A smaller pool gets through. Perhaps you know that.</p>
<p>jonri–Funny your thoughts on the weather in South Bend–we were thinking just the opposite-the weather there is going to be much better than at home :D. </p>
<p>Pink–if you are planning on going to medical school I would strongly suggest you go to whatever undergrad you feel you have the best chance of getting the best GPA. If you need a more personal touch, ND will be better. I would also suggest you re-evaluate your list and maybe reconsider a school where you are coming in at the top end of the applicant pool. You will have more opportunities to shine at a school like that and that goes a LONG way for med school admissions. Keep in mind that the admit rate for medical schools are ONLY for those students who were offered committee letters (recommendations from the pre-med adviser at what ever school). That doesn’t take into consideration the kids that were not allowed to apply.</p>
<p>What is your back up plan if you don’t end up going the med school route?</p>
<p>Pink D – Congratulations on narrowing your choices and having such a productive talk with your parents! After visiting UVA, I hope you have a clear choice. But from what you’ve said is important to you, and how you’ve handled this analysis, you are bound to be successful and happy at either.</p>