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<p>What's odd about soem of these situations (such as mine and Mom55) is that our kids seem open about the fact that the situation isn't good. i.e. Q:"Why do you think she reacted the way she did" A: "because she's a horrible brat who always overreacts to everything"..<<</p>
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<p>Perhaps the problem is that both kids are 17 and just don't yet know how to extricate themselves from the situation, they don't want to hurt the person, they don't want to go through "a scene", they don't want to put up with this person's whining at school for the last semester of senior year. (Momsdream, if I'm reading the situation correctly, I hope an ED deferral does not come through :(). I agree that there is little to be gained from lecturing or expressing your opinion except in the most lateral way, involving a movie, a "friend" etc. Has anyone seen "Mean Girls"?</p>
<p>We have used the high maintenance thing at my house, jokingly, but as my son gets older, it will come out more and more. I don't know that he will ever have a high paying career, even if he is happy and successful, he needs to stay away from some of the girls in his class as if they were the plague! Luckily, usually the financial high maintenance types will move on to greener pastures if it is clear that the money is not there to be milked - the emotionally needy are more difficult.</p>
<p>to both the OP and Momsdream.... have you tried suggesting a "buffer friend"? If the dynamic between the two of them alone is dysfunctional, often having a third person around to balance things out will help your kid quickly figure out the score. There is an emotional intensity to being friends or the boyfriend of a drama queen which can be very satisfying if your kid is usually in the role of "nice, plays by the rules" kind of person. I wouldn't try talking sense... you'll do more harm than good, but often suggesting a double date (for Momsdream) or taking along another friend to a movie or whatever (to Mom55) can upset the apple cart. These girls won't be able to pull off much of their c%^& with another person in tow so it will be a more pleasant interaction, and your kids might actually start to see the situation with a little more objectivity.</p>
<p>Thanks for your suggestions. I think I'm going to let the lessons be learned the hard way.....I give out the allowance each week and when it goes, it's gone. If he has no gas, he can catch the bus. If he has no lunch money, he'll just be hungry. There are some things that he wants now, which he won't be getting because he blew the money. I think this is a better approach for us than for me to begin to try to control everything now (which Ive never done before), which wouldn't be of any use to him when he leaves home in August. I'm pretty good about letting out the rope....enough for him to hang himself.</p>
<p>Wow, you are all a goldmine of thoughtful insights and suggestions. Thank you.</p>
<p>Not good at holding back...I did have a gentle 1-1 with d this morning after she arrived home from sleeping over at this girl's house (what set me off last night). I asked her if she respected my judgement on things (she used to, but I wasn't sure anymore) and if I could tell her what I had observed. She was open. I think what I said really resonated somewhere with her (whether she had solidified thoughts around this or not). I didn't make any demands for the future, just told her I trust her to make good decisions. Hope there are no repurcussions, but anyway I'm glad I said it.</p>
<p>I see what you're saying. It's an interesting approach. Unfortunately, it won't work here because this person has acted out in front of me and other members of my family. There was even one occasion where I couldn't help myself. I got pretty close, looked right into the eyes and said to the person: "I think you need to remember that I'm his mom and I hope you don't think I'm going to agree with you talking to him like that" - then I smiled that "okay?" smile. When I looked at my son he was shaking his head and rolling his eyes (at the other person, not me). I was ready to grab a neck! There was another occasion where this person was a the dinner table during one of our recent extended-family birthday events and made some sarcastic remarks to my son about a gift he gave, in front of everyone. The entire room went silent. My son got up and said "way to put me on blast in front of my whole family!" and walked out. I think the person thought it was a cute way to get attention. None of us thought so. I had a conversation in the kitchen with my son about attention-seekers and low self esteem, which, in hindsight, was probably not the right thing to say because it probably made him feel sympathetic and tolerant. </p>
<p>Though, as I think through it, it might be helpful to have others there to hear some of this stuff. Maybe his friends would react and let him know how unacceptable this is....or how different this is from what others are experiencing. Thanks Blossom.</p>
<p>The idea of a buffer friend is a good one! In fact, now that I think about it, that has worked for my daughter. And, Kat is right - Mom's do have to lay down the line sometimes when things get too far out of hand.</p>
<p>In my daughter's case, she seems to attract "hangers on" who don't have many other friends but seem to hook on to my daughter. The ironic thing is that often my D. doesn't really LIKE these people but feels sorry for them and thus puts up with them and tries to "help" them. As a result, D. ends up exerting energy on people she admittedly doesn't like very much, often to her own emotional detriment. I guess this is all part of high school, but it sure can be exasperating to watch.</p>
<p>I am sympathetic as I drive my family nuts with the "oddballs" that I attract. Yep, I attract all kinds of unusual people from every walk of life. Always have. And I like them. But I have managed in my older age to keep the friendship lines on pretty clear terms. Something younger kids may have problems doing. </p>
<p>I try to keep my kids busy, and they tend to find themselves booked or with conflicts when their undesireable friends have something going on. I am a bit devious that way. Let those kids find another more available friend. And I'll bend a lot for those that I like as my kids' friends. Once they are away, of course, there is little a parent can do, except limit the funds and flexibility without making the friendship the reason.</p>
<p>Momsdream, I shook my head when I read your post because I knew that you had moments that if you could be 17 again for just 5 minutes ( I could relate because I am not going to sit back and allow any one to attempt to disrespect my child in front of me). You are really good because I would have put the person out of my house and chidl would just have to deal.</p>
<p>The sad thing about this type of situation is that it almost undermines some of the very lessons that we have tried to teach our kids;</p>
<p>Give people the benefit of the doubt
No one is perfect
Accept people warts and all
A person is known by the company they keep (birds of a feather)</p>
<p>We need to be more forth coming with telling our kids </p>
<p>When people show you who they are believe it</p>
<p>Don't count yourself so far removed that if your friend craps on some one, they will eventually crap on you.</p>
<p>I believe the key is to tell our children is to treat people the way the want to be treated an accept nothing less in return regarding how people treat them. They do not have to become enablers to anyone's dysfuntional behavior or drama and as I tell my daughter, "you are not anyones parent or in the make a man business" (for those with son, they should not be making over or trying to re-raise some one else's kid).
These friends have their own self esteem issues and your child should not have to be their therapist or the friend of the friendless.</p>
<p>While we hate to see these type of situations happen, they are unavoidable as we all will come across these type of people at one point or another in our lives (and ironically some of our best life lessons will be learned from these people as hopefully we will never step in the same river twice ). The upside is at least the situaion is happening while the kids are at home and we can give them some guidance, talk it out vs, when they go away to school and you may have no idea that this is going on. I think that our kids are smart enough that when they ave had enough they will know and at that time there will be a lot of worn out shoes from kicking folk to the curb.</p>
<p>that is what I was saying in my post, especially the disrespect issue. In my house, wow, I just could not see someone talking nasty to my son in front of me. Not ever. Heck, they can't get-away with it at school, the sibs eat together and have classes together and if there is ever a problem, it is shut down before it even can get back to my house. In front of ME??? Oh, I was boiling just to read momsdream post. If there is no respect and trust how can there even be a friendship?</p>
<p>I am with you because there is not that much "cute" in the world for my taste. To disrespect your son in front of everyone at a family function to boot? Drop them like a bad habit, because they are going to catch your son on a bad day and things will not be pretty. Cut his losses and move on because this person is to busy tuning up for the big song (me,me, me). They have shown that there is no common courtesy, respect, or trust in the relationship (or the person is a big time passive agressive personality), and with a friend like this son needs to find some enemiesbecause at least he will know where they are coming from</p>
<p>Mom55, kudos to you for just talking about it the way you did and like you said, it needed to be said and she now knows you are aware of the situation and maybe she will talk more about it with you and maybe she won't but she heard you on it. You did not lecture but raised some issues about it and what she could do in the situation. Job accomplished and now see what happens.</p>
<p>We're definitely charity cases when it comes to the plethora of wisdom shared, I guess I can stand up and admit to being an oddball, too, so Jamimom can stay consistent ;)</p>
<p>Hey, does that mean if Jamimom does not answer our questions, she is being too busy and we should take the hint that we are not on the approved list? :p</p>
<p>Somemom, maybe. I love to remind my husband that he married me when he starts with his grumbles about what I attract. And I guess he has been grumbling about CC a bit as he now recognizes the screen, and I am not necessarily doing work on the computer often times. </p>
<p>The problem with throwing a kid out with such finality when you don't like him, is that there are often too many venues outside of the home where they can meet. In my case, for instance, my son is often not home until 10PM and he is over an hour away at school which is like a college campus and he has senior priviliges. That leaves an awful amount of time when he could be with such charactors, and I prefer not to tip my hand about some of them that I just don't like.</p>
<p>Opinion of a daughter who was in a similar situation:</p>
<p>I think it is great that you are concerned. As a student who went through this with my own mother though, I can tell you one thing: Do not make this a battle!! If you have told your daughter how you felt and discussed it with her, I wouldn't prod further unless you see new problems in your daughter's behavior. She will eventually see that there is a problem in the friendship if it is unhealthy. But if she is constantly on the defense with you (not actually defending her friend, defending her coice of friends and ability to choose) it will be harder for her to see the problems on her own.</p>
<p>That is true, Lindsaylu. (couldn't resist the rhyme)</p>
<p>You cannot tell some one what is wrong with the one they are with, until they are ready to hear, best bet is to make mental notes of things to discuss later, warning signs & the like, which can then be rehashed, adnauseum, after the relationship is over and on the instigation of your kid.</p>
<p>And, like Jami said, if momsdream forces the issue, she risks it going underground, better to know what's going on and be involved than have it all hidden.</p>
<p>My DD2 broke up with a guy who is is a great kid, as long as he is not your DD's boyfriend. She later asked why we didn't tell her what a loser he was- as if!?!? We all laughed, and she agreed she could not have "heard" it then.</p>
<p>On the other hand, like Jami said, you don't have to be embracingly supportive. I have been far more inviting with some kids than others, no issue is made, I am just more willing to work to make things happen with the kids of whom I approve.......not even consciously, it just happens.</p>
<p>Soviet-Vietnamese SUZIE- your smilie is the old-fashioned kind, haven't you been reading the thread and gotten smilie lessons from Curmudge?</p>
<p>This is the irony! We spend a fortune on education but it might be the mate that is the best predictor of lifelong happiness and success. It's hard to put together a happy life with a high maintenance mate.</p>
<p>One of my relatives is a stray cat collector. When she married The Loser, her mother said, "I might as well accept this one because she's always had stray cat friends. If I reject this one, she'll just find another Loser." Maybe she was right but goodness, what a bad soap opera--with kids. She divorced him last year. He'll die of liver failure in a year or two.</p>
<p>Jamimom, at least you had the sense to pick a good mate!</p>
<p>mom55; sounds like a good conversation. Maybe the follow-ups would be positive reinforcement of the friends you like. When I was 20, my father warned me off a man I adored by saying the man would be unfaithful and my life would be hamstrung by infidelities if I persisted in the relationship. It was a single offhand comment, never reintroduced.</p>
<p>I dropped the man after two years. He went on to marry FOUR times. No children. Lives in a city that would have KILLED me. Whew!</p>
<p>Somemom, ya know, on this NEW forum, I cannot find where the smilies are located, though used the many neat ones on the old forum. So, I am having to stick with :-).
Susan
(the non-Vietnamese, non-Soviet, non-vet)</p>
<p>Susie; there are a couple of ways but the easiest is to hit colon, then parentesis (the one above zero)</p>
<p>The smiley with the stick out tongue is colon plus a lower case p.</p>
<p>If you want to get to the list (much smaller than the last site), go to the 'Post Reply' button at the bottom left corner of the last post. Wehn the reply screen comes up, scroll down to the bottom and in the bottom left you will see "Smilies". Click on.</p>