Confused, Overwhelmed, and Lost

College Search & Selection
1

(This is most likely in the wrong forum. I apologize beforehand, and I would very much appreciate it if a moderator can move it in the correct place)

Hello, I am currently a Junior in high school around western New York. As a Junior, I am beginning to freak out about next year when I have to apply for colleges. The reason I’m starting to freak out is because my situation is not “normal” in a lot of ways compared to my peers. I feel lonely and I haven’t been able to find too many people that are able to help me. So that is why I turn to college confidential for guidance, seeing that there is a wealth of information and probably at least someone that can guide me through.

So on to my situation. In order to give the full picture, I’ll start from the very beginning. My father is a doctor who got his degree from the University of Tokyo. I was born in Japan and our family moved to the US when I was about to go into Kindergarten. My father worked as a research fellow (I believe) at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, and so we lived there for about 4 years. Our family then moved to Rochester, Minnesota, for reasons that I’m not too sure of, but I know my father worked as a fellow at the Mayo Clinic and was about to become a full-time employee (I think) and obtain a green card for the entire family. Unfortunately for us, the bankruptcy of the Lehman brothers prevented the Mayo Clinic from hiring anyone that year, and our visa was about to expire. So my father massively applied to various places and we wound up where we are now in western New York. Our visa was renewed, however we still do not have a green card, which leads to my problem.

My father states that the earliest he can send an application for the green card is October and the decisions for that come out a couple of months after. This means that I won’t have a green card at the time of sending my college apps. I’ve contacted a few schools and a good chunk of them say that I’ll have to apply as an international, even though I’ve spent my entire schooling career in the United States. Furthermore, by the time acceptances come out, I will have a green card, making me a not-international student. So the whole thing for me is rather complicated on that front.

Not only do I have a strange visa status, but my interests are rather different as well. My favorite subject in school is Physics, yet I love to draw/paint. Not just any drawing/painting, but rather realistic and representational art, old master copies, and recently Bargue drawings. Just about everyone that’s seen my work say that they’re great and that I’m talented and whatnot (I apologize for such an arrogant, egocentric statement but please bear with me), which is good and all but at the same time I’m worried. I’m worried that if I were to send an art portfolio supplement to a college, they’ll be critical of my “lack of original concept” (in particular reference to my master copies and Bargue drawings) or “dead in emotions” (because my work is so focused on realism and therefore ‘rigid’). Basically I’m afraid that my work won’t be well received based on my choice of subject matter. But that’s simply who I am. Colleges ask for prospective students to demonstrate what they’re passionate about, yet I fear that if I were to do that, I will be rejected for my personal tastes and who I truly am. My true passions might conflict with what colleges might be looking for.

Furthermore, I suck at standardized tests. I attend a public high school of an affluent community that has had a pretty good history of sending their top students to top universities (“nationally ranked” I believe). Naviance data shows that students from my school have 30+% acceptance rate to Cornell, around a 20% acceptance rate to Yale and Harvard, etc. For all intents and purposes, I would be considered as one of those “top students.” I rank in the top 1%, although I have a suspicion that my particular graduating class is pathetic in comparison to the graduating classes of the past but that’s a discussion for another time :P. My GPA is definitely good enough to get into the top schools. However, tests. My practice tests scores for the SAT and ACT are hilariously bad and out of place considering my GPA. While my peers get scores of 2200+ on the SAT, I’ve been stuck around the 1800s usually. English is by far my worst subject, so naturally I do poorly on the reading section and do extremely poorly on the writing section. Although I’m very good at mathematics in class, I only perform decently on the SAT math section (scores ranging from 670-750). So this just adds to my stress and confusion as I struggle to get my test scores to match up at around the same level as my grades.

I don’t have many people to turn to for help. Both my parents were educated in Japan, so they’re completely clueless on how the system works here. Then my guidance counselor, who is amazing by the way, has never dealt with a student like myself. He calls me “weird” (in a good way) because he’s never seen a kid with an interest in art and physics, as well as a super funky citizenship status. So he says that he doesn’t know the answer to much of my questions and concerns. And my friends are, well, friends that currently attend high school. Fellow high schoolers typically aren’t the most reliable of sources. ;D

So with all that said and done, I have questions. And it would be great if people who have an idea of what to do for my situation help me out throughout this process. I expect to have to go find answers myself but it’ll be nice to have someone that can point me in the right direction. Even if nobody responds, this post in of itself helped me reorganize my thoughts so it was worth my time in that regard as well.

1.) Say that I have to apply as a male international applicant from Japan. Are there any advantages to this at all? All I’ve read are negatives associated with international applications, including reduced scholarship options and a more difficult time getting in to top colleges.

2.) If I were to apply to a top college, should I bother to include a portfolio, even if I risk getting shot down? I can also provide some pictures of my work if it’s necessary.

3.) With the other two questions in mind, should I even bother applying to top colleges at all? Would I not have a chance, given my sucky test scores, possible rejection of an art portfolio, and the fact that I’ll be applying as an international for most colleges? I mean I really like the University of Chicago for example, but I would be content going to SUNY Geneseo or the University at Buffalo, especially considering the general wisdom that where kids end up going to college has little influence on their overall success in life.

4.) Some tips to improve my test scores would be nice as well. I’ve seen the test scores of the people here and I’m amazed and wish I could be more like them. ;D

2

Do you really think they’re going to critique your art like professional art historians? You’re reading too much into it. If you’re good at art, send it, no matter the style. That’s you. If they don’t want it then you wouldn’t be a good fit there anyway.

3

Wow, thanks for the extremely quick and straight-to-the-point response! I guess you have a good point there too. I appreciate your response.

4

No problem. Good luck with your college search; I can’t really offer any reliable advice on your other questions. :slight_smile:

5

I am not really sure about the green card situation but here in California we have “undocumented” students who are allowed to apply the same as their peers. You might want to ask the schools that your are interested in how they deal with undocumented students who have graduated from an American high school. It is actually not uncommon where I live.

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I did not know that there was a technical term for foreign born students. Thank you so much! I’ve already found many resources that I can go through. I’m sure it’ll still be beneficial to contact the schools themselves to find out their specific policies, but I feel much more at ease now that I can figure out what to expect and know that I’m not the only one. :smiley:

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BTW, you don’t have to apply as a senior. If you take a gap year, you probably will have citizenship by the time you apply (and an opportunity like Columbia GS becomes available as well).

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Fellow Japanese here, with a friend in a similar situation.

If you can’t bring test scores up, you might want to consider test-optional schools: http://fairtest.org/university/optional

You may also want to consider Questbridge, which has a significant number of options for non-citizens, depending on the school. We don’t know what your family’s income is, so I cannot say for sure if this would be a good option.

I’m not familiar with how exactly the green card/permanent residency affects college admissions, but if it does so greatly, I would also think about taking a gap year just to wait for the green card. There are great things that you can do in that time (service, work experience, etc)!

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I would consider taking a gap year so you can get your residency straightened out. Don’t take any college courses, though, because many colleges will then consider you a transfer. Generally, the best financial aid goes to freshmen.

Have you tried the ACT? That may be a better test for you. Apply to a range of schools: a couple safeties (schools you can get into with your test scores, that you can afford, and that you’d be happy to attend), some matches, and a few reaches.

Good luck.

10

If you apply as an undocumented student, you need two years in the state of NY as well as graduating from a NY high school. Do check out whether you can get in state consideration for the SUNYs.

For the most part, with the numbers you are stating, your target schools are not likely to meet full need anyways. Go for the affordable schools and the ones to which you qualify for merit. If you don’t get choices you like, then take off a year and give it a go again with the green card. I know some kids who did just that, and frankly, it didn’t make much difference for the most part.

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I don’t think OP is undocumented though. What visa are you on OP? I would be wary of becoming too old to remain as a dependent on your father’s visa.

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I don’t know the international student rules and visas, as to what happens when a student turns 18 or graduates from college. Also don’t know how the two year/graduate from high school rule is enforced by SUNYs for document vs undocumented students. THese are all questions the OP needs to investigate. S/he will be here in two year.

I CAN say that most every single person I know who went for a green card, did NOT get one in the expected time frame. Something always came up, so waiting for one is not something I think is something to count on.

13

Let each place on your application list know what your current current visa status is (I’m guessing H-1B), that all of your education has been in the US, and that the green card is in process (if it is by time of application). Each place will have its own way of dealing with students in this situation. There are LOTS of them in the US. @paul2752 is one of them.

Ask your guidance counselor to help you find out what the policies are at the public colleges and universities in NY as to in-state status for students in your situation. In some states, you would be considered in-state for tuition and fees at at least some of the publics. @sybbie719 probably knows the rules for New York.

Find out how much money your parents can pay for college, so that you can identify at least one (preferably more) affordable options.

Now answers for your specific questions:

1.) There is no advantage in being an international applicant. The advantage is if you are a full-pay applicant.

2.) Send the art supplement.

3.) As long as you have an affordable place where you know your grades and test scores will get you in, everything else is gravy. Find a true safety (lock for admissions, dead-on affordable), and add in as many pretty safe, match and reach institutions as you feel like.

4.) Try the ACT. A lot of people do better on that than on the SAT.

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I thought undocumented students don’t have visas–thus undocumented.

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Also, have you taken the ACT? You might do much better on it.

16

Your situation is pretty straight forward: you are either
A US citizen
A US Permanent Resident Green Card holder
An person here on a visa (which would make you an international students as far as admissions/financial aid)
A an undocumented student (if you over stayed your visa)

It sounds to me like you are in the US legally, but you are waiting for family to apply for an receive their green cards. While you are undocumented, you are still considered an international student as far as admissions and financial aid.
This means at most schools, your ability to pay will be a factor in admissions.

Since you have been in the US since your were in kindergarten, is it safe to say that you your whole high school career has been in NYS? If yes, then you will be eligible for instate tuition at SUNY if you graduate from high school.

While you are eligible for in-state tuition, the process is not need blind to you, meaning that your ability to pay will be a factor in admissions. Because of your status, you are not eligible to file the FAFSA for federal aid and you will nt be eligible for TAP. You can however file the paper FAFSA for consideration for aid (it will most likely not happen at SUNY since the state legislature just voted down financial aid benefits for undocumented students who have DACA).

17

Check on your home state’s residency requirements, first. You may qualify as a state resident, even if not a citizen, if you attended high school within that state for at least three years. You sound perfect for many smaller, liberal arts colleges. I would have also suggested UC Santa Barbara’s College of Creative Studies, but they are expensive for out-of-state. Smaller colleges are often test-optional, and your application will receive a more careful, individualized review. You and your adviser can speak directly with admissions offices to explain your circumstances. Syracuse is terrific for art, and can be pretty generous with scholarships. Will you need a full scholarship, or can your parents contribute toward your education? I will give you the same advice I give many students on this site: do not pin your college dreams to an unlikely increase in test scores. You will undoubtedly hear people exhorting you to drop everything else and devote all your waking hours between now and December prepping for and re-taking standardized tests. You will probably encounter one or two posts from students who pursued that strategy successfully. I will tell you to put your fingers in your ears and chant “LALALALALA!” By all means, do some on-line practice tests. Take a prep book out of the library. Also, consider the simple facts. No student has ever re-taken the SAT without hoping to improve his or her scores. The College Board has a vested, financial interest in encouraging students to re-take them, and these are their statistics. The majority (55%) of students who retake the tests will increase their scores. Ten percent will remain the same. Thirty-five percent will have a decrease. The median increase for test scores is about 50 points, across three tests. That means that your scores are likelier to fall than increase by more than fifty points. Try the ACT at least once. Re-take the SAT once. Beyond that, work on the art that you love, and assemble a great portfolio (ideally with the assistance of a teacher or mentor). Work on the supplementary essays that many test-optional colleges require, so that your fascination with physics and passion for art come through. Do your best in school and focus on what you love. I say this as a parent whose sons both exceeded the norm and improved their SAT scores by over 150 points (3-scores). The elder barely prepped. It was almost all a matter of hitting the Critical Reading test out of the park on the second try. The younger took some vocabulary books off the hands of graduating seniors and did a few more practice tests. Neither one considered dropping an extracurricular activity, summer job, vacation travel, etc. to achieve those increases.

18

Kinda late, but let me chime in.

1.) No, you are at a disadvantage. In fact, due to you being an Asian, an over-represented minority in US colleges, you will face even harder competition because you are EXPECTED to do at least as well as other Asian kids. I know it sounds unfair, but that’s how US college admission works. Particularly, if you can’t afford the cost and need significant amount of financial aid, you are at even more disadvantage. That being said, if you can pay at least 25k(for less expensive ones) or 30~35k(at more expensive ones, like 65k per year) your chances are as good as those of full pay international students.

2.) Art Portfolio will be particularly interesting in your case since you are an Asian with prospective science major(again, over represented) who also have passion in non-science major. Not saying it gives a huge advantage, but it certainly gives another aspect of your personality.

3.) Again, the admission officers are NOT art experts. Sure, some professors who teach arts may look at it, but they won’t critic your works like the real critics do to many artists.
Worth applying to top colleges? It depends. If your GPA is pretty good, say at least 3.8 UW GPA and 4.2 weighted GPA, it’s certainly not bad(assuming your have decent SAT/ACT score, say 2200+ or 33+) Try ACT, it’s much better for non-native speakers, although it really depends.

4.) There are so many threads in CC that help you through SAT/ACT or other tests.

What is your current visa status? Are you under 18? Just let you know, you won’t be penalized for being here illegally if you are under 18.

PM me if you have a question. I am also a foreign student who’s a college freshman.

Good luck

19

I just wanted to say that I am so thankful of all the help I’ve received! Sorry for not logging in the past few days. The level of kindness of this community impresses me greatly.

So a bit of an update. I received my SAT scores: 740 Math, 670 Reading, 590 [lol] Writing (1410/1600, 2000/2400). Definitely not ideal for the top schools, but this is actually the best I’ve ever done overall. A 2000 is a lot better than the 1800s I was getting on a few practice tests I’ve taken. A tad bit disappointed for my math score, but the reading I think is my personal best. Overall I’m happy, for now at least.

Also a correction on my part. My dad attended the University of Kyoto, not Tokyo. It doesn’t make much of a difference, since the two are regarded as the best schools in Japan. The difference between them is like the difference between Yale and Princeton in terms of prestige. But I wanted to straighten that out since what I said was not correct.

Now on to responses and more questions:

A lot of people suggested that I take the ACT. I took the PLAN (I think that's what it was called) over a year ago and I did okayish on that. Actually, my scores in the reading and writing were abysmal whereas I did really well on the Math and Science. I like to think that I've gotten better at reading and writing in genera so I expect that if I were to take the real ACT, I'd do much better than what I got on the PLAN. So with that said, I do plan on taking the test.

With that comes with a question though. A lot of schools say that they require either the SAT and SAT Subject Tests or the ACT with writing. Does that mean that I can't do an ACT without writing with SAT Subject Tests? If I were to do well on the Subject Tests, I would have to 
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I am here legally, unless my parents have been conspiring against me for the past twelve years. I've also spent all of my high school years in New York. So based on what people have been saying here, I think it's reasonable to assume that I am eligible for in-state tuition if I were to apply to a public school correct?

Overall, I feel like I've gotten a better grasp on what to do for my own situation. The more admissions people I ask the more I get the response that I'll need to apply as an international (although a few have said that I can apply as a domestic applicant). I'll continue to read the responses here in order to better my understanding of my situation.
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Someone here recommended me not to take a college course if I take a gap year, or else I'd be viewed as a transfer. I've signed up for a SUPA (Syracuse University) English course for my senior year. Does that advice apply to this course I'm going to be taking next year?

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Finally, I plan on going to the NYC area and attend a week long workshop at the Grand Central Atelier for figure drawing. The Grand Central Atelier is not a college and so this workshop isn't considered a pre-college thing. Is this sort of thing still worth noting somewhere on my application? I assume and want to believe the answer is yes, but I want to make sure in case this sort of thing is viewed as a vacation or something along those lines. It would come across as being really dumb if I brag about a vacation. I do plan on doing a couple of other things over the summer like volunteer work and a program at the local hospital for robotic surgery.

Again, big thanks to everyone that's responded and went out of their way to help! All of these responses mean a lot to me and speaks for the supportive community here!
20

So what is your visa status?
Yes, in NY, if you have records of taxes you paid and records of income you and/or your parents paid, then you can get in for in-state tuition.