<p>Hello. So I am considering doing pre-law. I've never really looked into law before, but being in college has obviously gotten me thinking about my future and I decided to do some superficial research into law and seems interesting. I do have some questions however. Since I am new to this whole thing, what are some classes I can take to kind of get a taste of law in general and see if it is something I would even be interested in pursuing. Also, what's the best major for getting into law-school, or at least doing well on the LSAT (mind you, I'm horrible at math and I dislike, so any of those would not be good for me). And lastly, for those of you with experience/knowledge, how's it looking out there for lawyers? I don't want to pursue something that has no future by the time I graduate (I am currently a freshmen).</p>
<p>Post here as well: [Law</a> School - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law-school/]Law”>Law School - College Confidential Forums)</p>
<p>The current consensus seems to be that law is still an area you should avoid for the next while, but they have stats and stuff to back up their claims. :)</p>
<p>No specific major is required.</p>
<p>[LSAT</a> Scores of Economics Majors: The 2008-2009 Class Update by Michael Nieswiadomy :: SSRN](<a href=“http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1430654]LSAT”>http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1430654) has a chart of LSAT scores by major (download the paper and look on the last two pages). However, the students taking the LSAT within each major may be somewhat self-selected.</p>
<p>Law employment prospects are generally said to be highly dependent on being in the upper part of your class in a highly ranked law school.</p>
<p>I would stay very far away if I were you. Unless it’s something you’re sincerely passionate about doing, it’s just not worth it. I’m pre-law and I plan on advocating for poor people’s civil rights. Obviously I have no expectation of making a lot of money, but neither should anyone else going into the field. It can easily cost six figures worth of debt if you’re not wealthy and you’ll be very lucky to be employed out of law school. </p>
<p>As far as a major goes, I recommend staying away from criminal justice. Law school admissions look very poorly on it since a lot of pre-law students default to it who don’t do their research. It also doesn’t contribute a whole lot since you’re supposed to be learning the actual law material in law school. They want diverse majors. Classics is an excellent major. The Latin will help, and it always impresses.</p>
<p>Philosophy
Economics (requires math however)</p>
<p>Philosophy, physics, economics, and math majors score the highest, I think. </p>
<p>Choose.</p>
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<p>The latter three is probably because people in those majors just tend to be more intelligent. If he says he’s bad at math, all he’s going to do is set himself up for failure and a poor GPA. Philosophy does have some good logic courses that are practically built for the LSAT. I was lucky to take one since it just so happened to fulfill a general requirement. Although, LSAT courses and books are usually more effective for that anyway. I seriously recommend you start studying for the LSAT as soon as you make a decision, freshman or not.</p>
<p>Also, if you can’t get into law school or otherwise decide not to be a lawyer later, you’re going to be pretty much SOL with a philosophy major. Just be careful.</p>
<p>If the OP starts studying now, there is a very good chance that he will run out of study materials before he takes the real thing. For now, he should just focus on doing whatever it takes to get a 4.0. If his UG gives A+'s, then he should load up on easy classes since they count as 4.33’s in the LSDAS GPA.</p>
<p>Keeping good grades and reading a lot should suffice until their junior year or so.</p>
<p>I appreciate all the advice. A lot of these terms are new to me so sorry if I seem to not know what I’m talking about.</p>
<p>This whole lawyer thing is a new concept. I’ve never really thought about becoming one, but one of the things about college is that it makes you think where youre going to end up after (duh) and law just happened to pop into my mind. After doing some research it seems like something I’d be good at because again, I’m not a very good math person, which isn’t required too much in law, and I enjoy english. I’d also be interested in BigLaw (if the research I did is right, that means firms right?). So if I was to pursue law, that is where I would like to end up. Now out of the majors that people are good for law english and history strike up my interests the most. Not sure how well they fare up against something like philosophy, or poli sci, but yea.</p>
<p>My school doesnt really have a pre-law track or anything, but I would really like to know if this is something that would actually sit well with me, so what are some pretty well-known courses that most colleges have that would allow me to get a taste of what being a lawyer would entail?</p>
<p>Again thanks a lot for the responses</p>
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<p>No offense, but total nonsense. There are plenty of LSAT study materials out there. The best materials are practice tests from past LSATs. The sooner you practice, the better. It’s not a traditional test, but a test of your logic skills, and you want to tune it as best as you can. Plenty of people start practicing years ahead and score very well.</p>
<p>The only practice tests worth using are actual, administered LSAT exams. There are only so many of those test, so if you burn through them all in a short amount of time, then what? </p>
<p>Your GPA is set in stone after graduation, but poor LSAT score can be fixed. It’s foolish to waste time studying for a test three or more years away when you could be using that time to solidify a killer GPA. If you have free time, sure, a practice test every now and then won’t hurt, but there is no need to study for the LSAT until 6 months before you plan to take it.</p>
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<p>Says who? There are plenty of books that teach you strategies to take on the LSAT. Even the ones that don’t use actual tests are very handy. Either way, there is a massive amount of books with past LSAT tests. You can easily study for the LSAT years in advance effectively.</p>
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<p>The OP is interested in BigLaw. That means he’s going to need to get into a T14. It’s not as competitive if he has to take the LSAT more than once or has a gap between college and law school. The recommendation of studying six months in advance is absolutely insane. You’d be lucky to get 160, which is okay, but not for T14. A year at the very least, two is more reasonable, and you’re only helping yourself by starting earlier than that. You can achieve a killer GPA while studying for the LSAT.</p>
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<p>Afaik, undergrad doesn’t really give you much of a taste of the life of a lawyer unless your college has a really good pre-law advisory program. If English and History seem interesting to you, I highly recommend taking Classics. It’s basically ancient history, but looks a lot more impressive than just history. Although, you’ll probably have to learn some Ancient Latin and/or Greek. I really love it, though. It’s a fun language to learn and really builds a solid foundation for learning other languages. I can practically understand Italian and Spanish without any experience.</p>
<p>As far as the life of a lawyer, again, I don’t know of any classes, but you can be pretty sure it’s mostly paperwork day in and day out. It’s not exactly Phoenix Wright. </p>
<p>Sorry about using all the terms. I forget they’re not exactly basic. BigLaw usually refers to the large firms with hundreds of lawyers, usually in the major cities. They pay well, but are really competitive to get in. The T14 are the US News and World Report’s top 14 law schools. They almost guarantee a job and maybe even generous pay, but are tough to get in. You could certainly aim lower, but the job prospect for attorneys is horrible, and it’s been found law schools seriously fudge their employment numbers. Still, if you’re passionate and patient about finding a job after school, there’s legitimately nothing wrong with going to a Midwestern school and being a small town attorney.</p>
<p>@ExaltedAlmighty
Do yourself a favor and read the forums on TLS. I’d post a link, but I think it’s against the rules. There are several LSAT study guides on there that many successful students have used, and none of them recommend studying years in advance. Pretty much everyone on TLS is gunning for biglaw, so they know how to play the game. </p>
<p>You have no idea what you’re talking about. Lucky to get a 160 after 6 months of prep? How do you figure? You don’t have any idea. Plenty of people on the LSAT prep forums have gone from diagnostics in the 140’s to high 170’s in less than 6 months.</p>
<p>I’m not saying that you won’t be successful studying for years; I’m saying that there are better things you could be doing with your time.</p>
<p>A couple other things:
You’re completely naive to think that going to a T14 guarantees a good job.
Pre-law advisors are full of crap.
Law schools won’t be impressed by majoring in classics over any other liberal arts major
Being a “small town lawyer” sounds nice, but unless you get a full ride to whatever school you’re going to attend, you will be crippled by debt for a long time</p>
<p>OP, ExaltedAlmighty is painting a much rosier picture than he should be. Look up the law school scam blogs. The situation is downright scary right now. There are plenty of T6 grads unemployed now with six figure debt. Think long and hard about why you want to be a lawyer, if you decide to go to law school. Also, do whatever you can to minimize your undergraduate debt. Having an expensive bachelor’s degree will not help you getting into law school or finding a job as a lawyer.</p>
<p>Calm down, Ghostie. I think I hit a nerve, I apologize. I’ve done plenty of reading on TLS and several other pre-law forums. I never said anything about T14 guaranteeing a “good” job, but graduates have much better prospects at finding one. The majority of people from the top schools do get a job soon after, and many of them a good-paying one. You’re splitting hairs. The lesser schools have extremely low employment rates out of school and many of them make fairly middle class wages that are paying off six figure debts.</p>
<p>Plenty of legit sources recommend studying for the LSAT long in advance, plus it’s just common sense. It’s better to spread out your time studying well in advance than to cram a few months in advance. Despite how well a few people on some forum do. Getting an LSAT in the high 170’s isn’t just automatic after a few months of study. Some people can do it, but that’s gambling with your life. Some people just can’t even. if the OP is serious, he should be able to easily get a high GPA, study for the LSAT, and have some free time. I’ve known plenty of pre-meds who’ve had way less free time than I ever had.</p>
<p>There are sources that will tell you that, other than math majors, Classics major have the highest success in law school. Look it up. It’s highly desired by law school admissions because it’s unique, challenging, and provides a good foundation. There are thousands of history/philosophy/English majors, but so few Classics.</p>
<p>I’m not sure where you got the idea of a “rosy” or “naive” picture. I already talked about the state of the legal field in my first post itt. I never said he’d be financially successful if he went that route, but if he’s truly passionate about doing law, then he can do that. Wait, sorry! Does “horrible prospects” mean something different in Ghost73-speak?</p>
<p>Ok “Exalty,” Show me these “legit” sources that say to study far in advance. I haven’t found any. I also never said that getting a 170 is guaranteed after a few months of studying. It also isn’t guaranteed after years of studying like you’re suggesting. It’s probably best to go with the established methods of studying, which don’t include studying far in advance. Why are you comparing pre-meds to pre-law students? Completely different fields.</p>
<p>“The lesser schools have extremely low employment rates out of school and many of them make fairly middle class wages that are paying off six figure debts.” Show me some numbers then. </p>
<p>I’ve seen the charts, and classics is nowhere to be found as a high scoring major on the LSAT. Classics isn’t unique. And even if it were, law schools wouldn’t care. Law school isn’t like medical school. It’s based almost completely on numbers. If you read TLS you’d know that. Your pre-law advisor probably told you that law schools like “unique” majors, didn’t they?</p>
<p>How is the OP supposed to know if he’s passionate about the law. Let me ask you something, do you even know what lawyers actually do? If your so-called passion is based around a convoluted fantasy about being Atticus Finch advocating for poor people as you say in your first post itt, then you are likely to be left disappointed and broke.</p>
<p>Now now, I did not mean for this to turn into some sort of debate or war (however much I may be learning from them) haha. </p>
<p>Here’s where my thought process is: if the goal is to get the highest GPA possible, should I try and do a major that while it may help my future possible law school career, isn’t the most challenging major my school offers? Mind you, I go to a pretty good school (Rutgers- New Brunswick) and an ideal law school would be something like NYU since I plan on living and practicing in the city (should I decide to actually pursue law). I am not sure how much your UG school weighs in on LS admissions, but MOST RU majors aren’t a walk in the park. Something like Communications is usually regarded as relatively easy, but I am not sure how much that would help in law school. So it just makes sense to do something relatively easy to inflate my GPA.</p>
<p>I also can’t say that I’m PASSIONATE about law just yet, as it is something I just started looking into and have no decided on yet. Like I mentioned before, should I pursue law, my ideal position would be in a nice firm in NYC with a good salary. I know with that comes a ton of work and hours, but as of NOW it sounds like something I would not mind doing.</p>
<p>Now now, I did not mean for this to turn into some sort of debate or war (however much I may be learning from them) haha. </p>
<p>Here’s where my thought process is: if the goal is to get the highest GPA possible, should I try and do a major that while it may help my future possible law school career, isn’t the most challenging major my school offers? Mind you, I go to a pretty good school (Rutgers- New Brunswick) and an ideal law school would be something like NYU since I plan on living and practicing in the city (should I decide to actually pursue law). I am not sure how much your UG school weighs in on LS admissions, but MOST RU majors aren’t a walk in the park. Something like Communications is usually regarded as relatively easy, but I am not sure how much that would help in law school. So it just makes sense to do something relatively easy to inflate my GPA.</p>
<p>I also can’t say that I’m PASSIONATE about law just yet, as it is something I just started looking into and have no decided on yet. Like I mentioned before, should I pursue law, my ideal position would be in a nice firm in NYC with a good salary. I know with that comes a ton of work and hours, but as of NOW it sounds like something I would not mind doing.</p>
<p>This is such a nonsense argument - I don’t even think you two fundamentally disagree on anything anyway. There is nothing wrong with studying for the LSAT three years ahead of time if the OP wants to. He is not going to run out of materials; there are hundreds of LSAT books. Nobody is saying that he HAS to start studying three years out, but if he has some spare time and the desire it’s not going to HURT him either. And ExaltedAlmighty never said that a 170 is “guaranteed” after years of studying. S/he said that you have a better chance of raising your score if you take more time to study, which is true.</p>
<p>Besides, the differences aren’t necessarily meaningful. Engineering majors, in the #5 slot, only scored about one point on average higher than chemistry majors, in the #10 slot. And chemistry majors only scored about 2 points higher than the #15 slot, finance. These aren’t statistical analyses, either, so there’s no evidence that major predicts LSAT scores or that there’s even any statistically significant difference in the scores. All we have is the chart.</p>
<p>As for your major, OP. I think it’s unlikely that the major itself is driving higher LSAT scores. Rather, I think that a common third variable is the likely driver - students who have the skills to score high on the LSAT are also more likely to major in certain degrees, like philosophy, economics, and physics and math. All of those degrees require logic and/or some kind of quantitative prowess. Also remember that they are averages, too - people with all kinds of majors attend law school. So I think you should pick a major that you actually like, and something that you could work in if you decide not to go to law school.</p>
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<p>That it is a test of logic may be why math and philosophy majors do so well – they get plenty of practice with logical thinking in their major courses.</p>