<p>It's not just the Ivies that are heavily recruited, it is all of the elites, including Amherst, Chicago, Claremont McKenna, Duke, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, MIT, Michigan, Northwestern, Pomona, Stanford, Swarthmore, UVa and Williams. </p>
<p>And I agree with Slipper, very few MCs and IBs recruit at undergraduate B-schools. Even at schools with top BBA programs like MIT, Michigan and Penn, more students from their colleges of Engineering and Arts and Sciences are hired by MCs and IBs than students from their BBA programs.</p>
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more students from their colleges of Engineering and Arts and Sciences are hired by MCs and IBs than students from their BBA programs.
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<p>which make one wonder what, exactly, the point of going to a BBA program is in the first place (particularly if one is planning on getting an MBA) - but even if you aren't - how do you know for sure? </p>
<p>seems to me if you are a motivated, talented and bright individual - you are better served going to the best program you can get into and try and get the best, most well-rounded education possible (i.e. vs. limiting yourself to a dedicated BBA program) and i think you'll find that more often than not, your chances of landing a quality job are probably even better than had you chosen the BBA route.</p>
<p>I'd actually like that to be true, but Wharton sends more to top firms than the rest of the school even in total population, not just per capita. However, outside of just top firms, what you say may be true due to the population difference.</p>
<p>I couldn't agree more the_prestige. I personally always recommend students to major in a traditional discipline or Engineering. I think Business is a field best left for graduate school.</p>
<p>Aurelius, maybe in the case of Penn, because of the size of its BBA program (600 students per class) relative to the size of the entire class (2,500), the numbers slightly favor the B-school. But that is not the case as MIT and Michigan. And even at Penn, where the numbers may favor Wharton, a multitude of students in the college of A&S get recruited by MCs and IBs.</p>
<p>Perhaps that would be true if IB and elite consulting were the only jobs on earth. But many 1000's of business school ugs get good jobs with good companies that do not require 100 hour weeks and stress levels so high you can't sleep when you have time. They get jobs at most Fortune 500 firms, all the top accounting firms, all the commercial banks, all the major real estate firms etc. and a life too. Starting at around $50k is not too bad either.
I am starting to look forward to the next IB crash when all these recent hires will be pounding the streets wondering *** happened. And it will comes--it always does.</p>
<p>That's a good point too Barrons. For students interested in landing jobs with companies like GE, Ford, Kellogg, Alcoa, Tyco etc..., there is no better hunting ground than the undergraduate B-school. I was merely discussing recruitment for MCs and IBs. I personally left the IB industry and looking back, it was one of the best decision I ever made, so you are preaching to the choir! hehe!!!</p>
<p>I agree that consulting is not ideal (at all!), but it does help get you into top b-school programs and into great industry jobs after b-school.</p>
<p>This is scary! Slipper, the_prestige, Barrons and me all agreeing! This used to be such a respectable forum. Quick, let us think of something we can disagree on. I know, since Dartmouth's and Princeton's presidents are/were Wisconsin and Michigan alums...ergo, Michigan and Wisconsin are better! LOL</p>
<p>funny, i'm NOT in the business school at Cornell. My major dabbles in the business aspect a bit, but that's mostly for economics stuff. </p>
<p>Yet, I got an email last night from the student government president of my school (obviously, I am a part of the student government) saying Goldman Sachs has invited those interested in who are in ILR's student government to first a private one-on-one meeting with some recruiters before the regular university-wide recruitment info session. A few of my friends told me that this is REALLY good, though I dont know much about Goldman Sachs or its reputation. </p>
<p>Though I don't really want to be a blood sucking ******* with no life and chewed up fingernails, I might check it out to see what's up. The main point of this post being I'm not a business major, Cornell has a business major, yet ILR students seem to be sucked up just as much if not more than AEM majors.</p>
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I got an email last night from the student government president of my school ... saying Goldman Sachs has invited those interested in who are in ILR's student government
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<p>Elite companies are interested in meeting and recruiting the best and the brightest - that includes those with immediate, measurable, "tangible" skills (GPA, board scores, etc.) and those with "intangible" skills (leadership positions, interpersonal skills) - more often than not the "intangible" skills are the most important (esp. when all things are generally equal - i.e. if you are attending an Ivy, the default assumption is that you aren't an idiot)</p>
<p>i've long argued that it's those with the greatest set of "intangible" skills that are the most successful in business (which frankly can be more of an art than a science): the art of selling yourself (or your idea/product), the art of reading people, the art of negotiations, the art of closing a deal (winning a client), the art of managing people, the art of getting people to be on "your side", the art of getting people to "do things for you", the art of office politics, the art of getting senior management to "like you" - these are all things you can't measure, yet as you climb the corporate ladder are the things that really matter. when you get to a certain level, the powers that be assume that you already know how to do a good job, it's really a matter of "do we like this guy enough to promote him/her?" ... "do we want this person in the club?" ... the "club" analogy is crude but fitting: whether it be a fraternity, a social club, a country club or a board room - after a certain point, it's all a matter of personality and fit.</p>
<p>It's not the smartest guys in the room that make it to the top - otherwise, corporate America would be run by PhD's - but more often times than not the top dogs are guys with strong academic background but NOT THE strongest - i.e. not the valedictorians, not the summa cum laudes - but more often a Varsity athlete or a School president - why do you think these kinds of EC's are important to adcoms even at the highschool level? Because history has proven that these types of non-academic distinctions are just as powerful an indicator of future success as grades and SAT scores.</p>
<p>Funny, I was an anthro major with a 3.5ish GPA, and I not only got a great consulting offer, I got in as one of the youngest in my class at a top 5 b-school. The reason? The intangibles.</p>
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more often times than not the top dogs are guys with strong academic background but NOT THE strongest - i.e. not the valedictorians, not the summa cum laudes
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<p>Bah. I'm on track to graduate summa. Why must you kill my hopes? :p</p>
<p>I do agree with you though. Anyone who believes intelligence and hard work are all it takes to succeed in business is severely mistaken. I know of too many people burned by their shortcomings in the "intangibles," as you put it.</p>
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Bah. I'm on track to graduate summa. Why must you kill my hopes?
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<p>Well, the two are not necessarily mutually exclusive - i.e. if you are lucky enough to have both the academic record AND the intangibles - then you are two steps (giant leaps) ahead of the pack.</p>
<p>your post just made my day- the_prestige. I am definitley smart but not in the 2200 SAT+, 4.0 GPA range. I have been class president since 7th Grade and play 3 varsity sports. I put my interpersonable skills as my number one strength and I'm happy to see that I have the opportunity to thrive in a business setting according to at least someone...</p>
<p>T_P - Maybe at first, but does it really matter that much once you've started working? :confused: I know where you graduated from can continue to play a part but I've never gotten the impression that academic record mattered all that much after your first job.</p>
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I put my interpersonable skills as my number one strength and I'm happy to see that I have the opportunity to thrive in a business setting according to at least someone..
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<p>According to anyone who knows the first thing about business, yeah, you definitely do. :)</p>
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I know where you graduated from can continue to play a part but I've never gotten the impression that academic record mattered all that much after your first job.
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<p>Well, again, all of these things cannot be analyzed in isolation.</p>
<p>For instance, in business, think about the "cycle" of school to work to school to work: </p>
<p>get good grades in HS -> get into a good college -> get good grades in college -> get a good job -> work hard and do a good job -> get into a good b-school -> get a better job</p>
<p>so, does that 4.0 grade average in HS really going to matter in a random job you'll be doing 5-10 years later? not specifically, but that 4.0 grade average has probably played some role in where you are / what job you have 5-10 years later at least in an indirect way </p>
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Maybe at first, but does it really matter that much once you've started working?
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I'm happy to see that I have the opportunity to thrive in a business setting
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<p>Agree. That was my point about the "intangibles" - hard to measure, often underestimated.</p>