Convince me that harvard does not suck in the areas nay-sayers (nay) say it does.

<p>I am leaning pretty heavily towards Harvard, but I have a few doubts. I’ve been hearing a lot of anti-harvard-speak recently, the just of which is:</p>

<li>Harvard kids are unhappy. </li>
<li>Harvard kids don’t know how to have fun.</li>
<li>Harvard kids aren’t allowed to drink. </li>
<li>Harvard kids stay on campus 24/7</li>
<li>Harvard kids work significantly more than kids at other top tier schools.</li>
<li>Harvard kids are constantly and insanely stressed out. </li>
<li>Harvard kids are cut throat. </li>
</ol>

<p>In contrast, I am not hearing so much of this about the other two schools I am still seriously considering, Princeton and Stanford (except number 4). </p>

<p>Could you please comment on how true this anti-harvard-speak is, especially in relation to Princeton and Stanford.</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

<p>^ My D is asking this same question right now . . .</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Harvard kids are unhappy.
Don't know about others, but my S isn't.</p></li>
<li><p>Harvard kids don't know how to have fun.
Don't know about your idea of fun, but my S and his chums seem to have lots of fun. All of them plan on staying in Cambridge this summer.</p></li>
<li><p>Harvard kids aren't allowed to drink.
Not if they're under 21. But underage drinking does happen at Harvard as at others campuses.</p></li>
<li><p>Harvard kids stay on campus 24/7.
Well, they have housing for all four years, and most do prefer to live on campus. But Harvard is not in the middle of nowhere and students do venture into Cambridge and Boston on a regular basis (for my S, every weekend). </p></li>
<li><p>Harvard kids work significantly more than kids at other top tier schools.
I have no basis for comparison (but I would consider this a good thing).</p></li>
<li><p>Harvard kids are constantly and insanely stressed out.
Not my S, and, from what I can gather, not his friends.</p></li>
<li><p>Harvard kids are cut throat.
See #6.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I'm currently a senior at Harvard, so I think I can offer some input on the things you're hearing. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>Harvard kids are unhappy.
There are unhappy students here and there are happy students here. From what I can gather, most of us are happy. My friends and I certainly are. Everyone has their little gripes about different things here, sure, but I think that whenever a Harvard student expresses anything other than the sentiment that the college is perfect, it gets blown entirely out of proportion by people who are pretty much looking for a way to tear Harvard down. I sincerely doubt you'll find more unhappy people here than you will anywhere else. For me personally, I've been happier during my four years here than at any other point in my life, and wouldn't have traded this experience for anything in the wide world. Another caveat: Don't look at the assorted Crimson articles and editorials as evidence that the student body as a whole is miserable - I'm on the editorial board myself and I know that the people at the newspaper are some of the most opinionated and nitpicky on campus ... that's why they're there. But they and their (our...) opinions certainly don't represent the full spectrum of people's feelings about the Harvard experience. No one would read the paper if all it talked about was how great Harvard is.</p></li>
<li><p>Harvard kids don't know how to have fun.
Completely untrue. People here have fun in so many different ways, at so many different times and in so many different settings that it's pretty much impossible for anyone to be unable to find themselves a good time SOMEWHERE on campus. There are plenty of parties, plays, fashion shows, sports events, and likely a whole host of things I'm forgetting to name because they're not my scene. But trust, whatever you want to do, you can do it here and have a blast. </p></li>
<li><p>Harvard kids aren't allowed to drink.
Don't be fooled by the new rules the administration has implemented. If you want to drink here, you'll find no shortage of opportunities, underage or not. These opportunities may not always be sponsored by the College, but they're definitely around, from parties, pregames to parties, beer pong in a friend's room, to happy hours put on by the house committees. If someone is living the dry life here, it's because they want to be. </p></li>
<li><p>Harvard kids stay on campus 24/7
I personally don't leave campus that much (why would I? I like it here!), but I know plenty of others who do. There are parties on other campuses, museums to visit, shows to see, movies to catch, etc. People do actually do these things quite frequently. Also, our campus isn't isolated, it's completely integrated into Cambridge. So you technically leave campus when you leave a Harvard building or the Yard. </p></li>
<li><p>Harvard kids work significantly more than kids at other top tier schools.
I won't lie, you'll definitely find some go-hards here who'll stay in all the time and work work work. But this is not AT ALL the norm. People work when they have to, and don't work when they don't have to ... or want to, in the case of much of the senior class ;). It varies some by concentration and more by personality type. But think about it - most of the people here didn't get accepted by locking themselves away in a library for all of high school. We were out, pursuing extracurriculars and other things. Why would that stop once we arrived?</p></li>
<li><p>Harvard kids are constantly and insanely stressed out.
There are stressful times during the semester (midterms, reading/finals period) but beyond that, people are not running around tearing their hair out all the time. There's no reason to. </p></li>
<li><p>Harvard kids are cut throat.
Completely untrue. People here help each other SO MUCH, from older students giving class and career advice to younger ones, to study guides for classes and exams, collaboration on problem sets and more. No one here is out to get each other, people are generally just not that insecure. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Hope that's helpful. Harvard really is an amazing place, so if you want to come here, please don't be deterred by the same old myths that have been circulating in the rumor mill since time immemorial. Enroll and find out what it's like for yourself - I can almost promise you won't regret it. :)</p>

<p>
[quote]
3. Harvard kids aren't allowed to drink.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Where's the negative?</p>

<p>Others are doing a good job of answering point by point, but another way to refute these nay-sayers is to point out that they generally have no personal knowledge of the topic, whereas the yay-sayers do.</p>

<p>In other words, how many nay-sayers have you heard from who are current Harvard undergrads or parents of the same?</p>

<p>Why would you assign any weight whatsoever to nay-sayers' speculations about Harvard when you have access to extremely reliable alternative sources of information?</p>

<p>piccolojunior,</p>

<p>I agree! What's wrong with not drinking? Why do some associate drinking with fun. That's strange to me. How sad for some people.</p>

<p>^I feel the exact same way at piccolojunior and guitars101.</p>

<p>i honestly do not understand how drinking and acting like a fool can be pleasing or fun...but that's just me.</p>

<p>Well if you go by the 95% rule then the reason for drinking being so popular is obvious.</p>

<p>This has been a very reassuring thread - my D is leaning toward Harvard and I have been very worried she will be miserable there, especially after visiting Stanford and drinking jamba juice beneath a palm tree. I know what I'd choose, but I'm not my daughter.</p>

<p>Here's my analysis on what's sometimes perceived and reported as negativity from H students (gleaned from asking H students). I think it's three-fold; in order of least to most substantial sources:</p>

<p>1) H students tend to be analytical and critique things. It's one of the ways that they got to H.</p>

<p>2) H students are less likely to view their campus through rose-colored glasses. Most of the rest of us chose our college because we fell in love with some aspect of it - the campus was pretty, the sports teams were top-ranked, the student tour guide was hot, etc. Some H students fell in love with the school; many others made less emotional decisions to choose H because they didn't want to go through life having wondered what it would have been like to have gone to H. They're typically willing to offer candid assessments - good and bad - that aren't based on infatuation.</p>

<p>3) (I believe this is the big one.) H is the only school in America that has no aspirational peer institution that it's trying to catch. USC and UCLA students will tell you that their school is tops, or else they fear they'll fall behind the other in your opinion. I have a college guide in which students describe their school in exactly five words - the Yale student description is "So much better than Harvard." When you want to catch the school that's just ahead of you, you grumble in private and praise publicly. H students, perhaps uniquely in American higher ed, are comfortable telling it like it is, good and bad about their university, secure in the knowledge that after whatever praise or criticism they share, H will still be the standard-bearer among universities.</p>

<p>When my daughter first enrolled I worried about all the same negative stereotypes. I thought what if, after all this trouble and effort of applying and getting accepted and paying these high prices, she is miserable at Harvard? </p>

<p>So it was with great trepidation that I made my first visit to Boston part way though her freshman year and took her out for lunch. After we got our sandwiches and sat down I just asked her outright: Are you happy here? Her voice took on an unusual intensity and she replied "Oh, I <em>love</em> it here!"</p>

<p>And she has loved it ever since.</p>

<p>There ae good days and bad days like any place. Lot of kids drink a lot and do drugs, but then there are kids who do not do anything. More kids are busy with their ECs rather than studying for exam. Since Harvard offers so many activities, students are always busy.</p>

<p>Thanks for all of the helpful answers - please feel free to answer my nay-saying point by point.</p>

<p>Some of you guys strike me as prohibitionists. Are there many of you at harvard?</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Harvard kids are unhappy.
It probably applies to a few kids but not very many.</p></li>
<li><p>Harvard kids don't know how to have fun.
It probably applies to a few kids but not very many.</p></li>
<li><p>Harvard kids aren't allowed to drink.
Legal drinking age in MA is 21, but I have heard that younger college kids have actually gotten a hold of some alcohol.</p></li>
<li><p>Harvard kids stay on campus 24/7
Most kids enjoy the campus and Harvard Square, but 24/7 is a big exaggeration.</p></li>
<li><p>Harvard kids work significantly more than kids at other top tier schools.
Harvard kids work hard, and I don't know about other schools.</p></li>
<li><p>Harvard kids are constantly and insanely stressed out.
Insanely? No, it probably applies to a few kids but not very many.</p></li>
<li><p>Harvard kids are cut throat.
No. Just no.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Sigh. These same questions over and over and over....</p>

<p>The highest yield of any university in the country plus a 98% (?) graduation rate must tell you something. Could it really be bad???</p>

<p>I spoke to my freshman D today about all of her plans for next year, and said, "It sounds like your sophomore year is going to be great!" She responded, "What are you talking about? My freshman year is great!"</p>

<p>In general, people will try to say that Harvard (or Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT, etc...) suck at some things (social life being a prevalent thing to talk about as far as schools of this stratosphere are concerned).
I got into Stanford and Princeton, rejected from Harvard (but I still love the school and hope to go there for graduate school) and waitlisted at Yale (I will be attending Stanford, which was my top choice anyway, so I'm happy, and I hope all of you are as well). All of these schools are absolutely awe-inspiring in terms of academic strength. As far as the non-academic factors are concerned, and I think others on this forum will agree with me, that it is really up to the student in particular to determine their social life. So as far as your original points go, I think that the answer to all of those will depend mostly on you, the student.</p>

<p>Good Luck at Harvard...I'm sure you'll do very well there, and be VERY HAPPY over the course of your 4 years in college (98% graduation/retention rate does tell you something about the overall attitude that students have toward Harvard).</p>

<p>
[quote]
Some of you guys strike me as prohibitionists. Are there many of you at harvard?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm the only person at HYPMS to have heard of let alone become a devotee of the Vertical Jump Bible...and you're calling me a prohibitionist?</p>

<p>Abstaining from alcohol is different from prohibiting it. You can go do that stuff all you want, I won't because I have a greater amount of this intangible they call intelligence....and I care more about bodybuilding/hops (more emphasis on hops). If you're one of those epic failures who says "drinking = living a little" then I offer my condolences to your entire family.</p>

<p>I offer my condolences to your entire family, sir.</p>

<p>are you a recruit piccolo?</p>