Cooper Union vs. Cornell Engineering - who's better?

College Majors Engineering Majors
1

<p>Hey guys,</p>

<p>I'm trying to figure which is a better school. I know both are elite and very reputable. Cooper Union is hot inside NYC, Columbia can't even compare to it. However, Cornell is no joke. It is a great school. I'm currently transferring to Cooper and I have many rivals at Cornell. </p>

<p>I just wanted to start a new thread concerning which school is better - I know it's kinda stupid but this is just for fun. What do you guys think? Would you rather root for Cooper or Cornell? There has been a very similar discussion forum regarding Cooper and Columbia but not Cooper and Cornell.</p>

<p>I just want the engineers to talk about what they feel is better.</p>

2

<p>Cornell Engineering all the way.</p>

3

<p>Cornell's certainly more <em>established</em>... I'm not as familiar with Cooper's program as I probably ought to be. Still, I know that the curricula and approach are different enough that this is like comparing apples to oranges.</p>

4

<p>My vote would be for Cooper Union. They are regarded as one of the better engineering educational institutions in the U.S. Their focus is much more on the teaching end and you will benefit greatly for that. Sure Cornell is widely respected and is a good school, but its focus is on research and not teaching undergrads. Their professors get paid to publish, not teach you. It does make quite a difference!</p>

5

<p>I don't know anything about Cooper, but I can definately say that Dr. Reynolds assetion is flat out worng. Cornell's Engineering program has ALWAYS been based on practical application. Research opportunities are WIDELY available at the undergraduate level. Cornell professors get paid to teach, and especially teach undergrads. Do not buy this vague assertion.</p>

6

<p>i think if u ask the opinion of college professors, 90% (obviously we have to excludes dr. reynolds) of them will suggest cornell. This is just around my circle, my high school stats teacher went to cooper union, and he said it was "okay", two people I know have gotten into cooper union my senior year of hs, and they are rejected from every top 30 school. (this is not due to bad luck, trust me) Schools like Cooper Union don't have any resources comparable to Cornell's. It lacks the prestige of Cornell, I think you will feel like going to 13th grade at Cooper Union.(everything is in one building, no college atmosphere) Its acceptance rate is ridiculously low because there is no tuition(which I think is Cooper Union's only positive). If Cornell doesn't ask you to pay the whole price, I would suggest for you to go to Cornell.</p>

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<p>The idea that Cornell's teachers get paid to teach is outrageous. They are a major research university. Don't get me wrong, I respect Cornell very highly and I think they are an excellent institution. But they are a research institution first, undergrad education is secondary. Having undergraduate research opportunities is good but does not change their primary focus.</p>

<p>I've heard very good things about Cooper and from what I have heard their main focus is teaching undergraduates. I advise student to go to places where teaching them is the focus, not research.</p>

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<p>jeffl,</p>

<pre><code>You contradict yourself. You say your friends got into Cooper easily and then you say "their acceptance rate is ridiculously low". From what I've heard it's more of the latter. Though I admit that I am no expert on the institution, I've just heard good things about it from other professors.
</code></pre>

9

<p>Last year, one of the associate professors for quantum physics by the name of Stephenie McKahin said something that I won't forget for a while. She happened to finish her undergraduate studies at Columbia before getting her P.h.d. at Washington. </p>

<p>When I told her how lucky she was to have gone to such an elite place like Columbia for undergrad, I saw that she wasn't exactly smiling. I asked her what was wrong. She said that she was upset because she felt a lot of the professors spent more emphasis on research than on teaching students. She said that the problem wasn't just Columbia - a lot of big schools did this.</p>

<p>Her experience in the past has had an impact on her and she now wants to do something about it.</p>

<p>Right now, she specializes in physics education, she wants to better improve methods of teaching students and she is really into teaching.</p>

<p>I think we have to draw a line between undergraduate education and graduate education. Cornell or Columbia would be a fantastic graduate experience - indeed, research is the most important factor when studying at graduate school. </p>

<p>However, the undergraduate education degree is more about learning the general breadth and curriculum in academics than doing research. The best prepared undergraduate is the one with the most knowledge and ability to adapt to new environments later in life.</p>

<p>By the way, Reynolds, what specific things did your professors say about Cooper Union?</p>

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<p>If you want a great undergraduate experience, go for Cornell. Cooper Union does not have a campus life. If you want a university that will get you into a top graduate school or one that will make you a highly recruited commodity by top companies when you graduate, again, go to Cornell. Cooper Union does not have the clout or connections that Cornell has...not in academe and certainly not in the corporate World. I am sorry if I am so blunt, but that's a fact. Cooper Union is a fine school, but it simply cannot compete with Cornell. Comparing those two would be like comparing Babson to Ross or Sloan. Can't be done. Babson is a good B-School, but it isn't a Ross or a Sloan. Same with Cooper Union...it is good, but it isn't Cornell.</p>

<p>Now, if we were talking about Architecture, I would say they are equal...but in Engineering, it is no contest.</p>

<p>As for teaching quality, it is impossible to measure it because it is so personal. Some people learn better in the LAC environment...others develop better in a research university environment. Let us not assume that everybody would get a better education in one type of university.</p>

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<p>The above message contains, simply put, statements that aren't completely true.</p>

<p>Quote: "If you want a university that will get you into a top graduate school or one that will make you a highly recruited commodity by top companies when you graduate, again, go to Cornell."</p>

<p>While it may true that Cornell grads get recruited by top grad schools and companies, the same is the case for Cooper. </p>

<p>Cooper Union has had an extroardinary number of graduates go to places such MIT and Cal-tech. Furthermore, grad schools actually fight for Cooper undergrads. </p>

<p>Quote: "Cooper Union does not have the clout or connections that Cornell has...not in academe and certainly not in the corporate World. "</p>

<p>Not true at all. Why else would Cooper boast a 100% job replacement rate -especially in a heated, competitive job market such as the East Coast? The following post was made in a different webpage but similar discussion. The author of the following paragraph's name is Rosarosaef (you can access the specific webpage: <a href="http://www.collegeconfidential.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?4/8738):%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeconfidential.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?4/8738):&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"i take it that you're a new york kid. five years from now, if you walk into some office in kansas city looking for a job with columbia on your resume, they'll be impressed. but you're not going to do that, are you? you're going to look for a job in nyc and everyone here knows that 'columbia fu' can't hold a candle to cooper union. but that's not the problem. the problem, as you know, is that it's a little late to say that "i'm kind of sure i want to be an engineer, but not definite". what else are you going to study at either of those places??? get your ass up to cornell if you need to find yourself. but before you do that, let me tell you something: cooper union is a real hot item for what ever you want to do. get the engineering degree there. you can go straight to wall street and make a pile if that's what you want to do. besides, the campus is beautiful (well... it's downtown, but do you really care?). no, coop's only problem is that its focus is narrow, but so is columbia fu's. and you're not going to wall street and "fu'll" them about columbia.
i speak in generalities but i generally know about what i speak. regardless, you are in a good position. don't worry about relatives in the old country who only know columbia & harvard. let your parents worry about them (with the money they save, they ought to be quite happy). and you should be happy, too. "</p>

<p>Within NYC, Cooper Union has the edge on Cornell and Columbia but outside of New York, I agree with Alaxandre. Cornell definitely has the edge. But, who wants to work in a place like Kansas or Wisconsin when compared to NYC (no disrespect to Kansas and Wisconsin). </p>

<p>I'm not trying to say Cornell isn't or is better. I'm just trying to say that Alaxandre's statements aren't completely true. However, Alaxandre brings up a good point: Cornell is more diversified in its academia.</p>

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<p>VJ, Cooper Union students are few and located in NYC. So obviously, they will find good oppotunities, but they will not be given the same options as Cornell students. And as you point out, Cooper Union students may have good opportunities availlable to them in NYC, but so do Cornell students. But what if you want to live in a different area, like San Francisco, Montreal, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Paris, London, Tokyo etc...? You do agree that there are many equally interesting and fun cities as NYC right? Do Cooper Union students have the same options in those other areas? Over 600 companies recruit Cornell Engineers. Tell me, how many companies actively recruit on Cooper Union's campus. </p>

<p>And like I said, Cooper Union does not offer much of a collegiate experience. Campus life at Cooper Union isn't very interesting or particularly fun. </p>

<p>I agree that Cooper Union is excellent. But I personally think Cornell offers more.</p>

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<p>Alaxandre,</p>

<p>Many people compare Cooper Union with Harvey Mudd in Cali since they're both top technical schools. </p>

<p>Would you say that Harvey Mudd is also somewhat inferior to Cornell?</p>

<p>Also I'm curious. You said they are the same for architecture (cooper and cornell) but not for engineering. Why is that?</p>

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<p>Alexandre,</p>

<pre><code>Have you been to Cooper Union? How can you say it has no campus life? It's in New York City! That would be amazing to me! But you make a good point and you are likely correct in saying that Cornell has more campus life that CU. Cornell appears to have much more of the feel of a traditional school. That may be an important factor to whoever is deciding on a school.
</code></pre>

<p>Now as far as getting into grad school or corporate connections, I doubt it will make much of a difference. Many graduate schools simply look at your GPA and GRE and don't look much at what school you went to. Some will give more credit to top research schools like MIT. But it's more important to have a research experience and advanced cousework in undergrad than to not have these things and go to the "right" school. This is what I have heard from Purdue's grad admissions people.</p>

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<p>Dr. Reynolds,</p>

<p>You contradict yourself: first paragraph, regarding campus life. I don't mind though; I just really wanted to point it out.</p>

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<p>I haven't posted here in awhile, Dr reynolds, I used to believe you when u said u were a professor, but now i don't. If you actually thought about this, how can you imply that the quality of the student body is correlated to acceptance rates. CUNY-Baruch has one of the lowest acceptance rates in the country, it doesn't mean it is selective. Chicago and schools such as CWRU, Michigan have very high acceptance rates.
There are a lot of schools in NYC, if u think that just going to school in NYC will make your college life fulfilling and wonderful, then you obviously have never been to NYC. Cooper Union has no campus, people go to school and then they go home.
You are misleading people by telling people to goto all the small schools over large prestigious universities that have produced thousands of famous and successful alumni.</p>

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<p>Jeffl,</p>

<pre><code>If you actually read what I wrote about your comment you will see that I was talking about acceptance rates, not student life. You said "all my friends get in there" then said "they have a low acceptance rate". Don't you see the contradiction? This has nothing to do with student life.

Tugger - I did not contradict myself. Personally I love the city and I would think studying in New York would be awesome. Now I don't know specifics about things like the number of student groups on campus and student participation rates but I know the city would offer lots to do - much more than Cornell ever could. But if you don't like studying in NYC then by all means go elsewhere. What bothers me about many on this site is that they naturally assume a #12 ranked school is better than a #20 ranked school and recommend the #12 ranked school. But there are so many other factors like student life that need to be considered.

This all brings us to a larger issue and that is the issue of school rankings and school presitigue. I got my Master's and PhD at a "top 10" school (Purdue University) but I have also experienced a student-focused undergraduate education and currently teach at a school that is also focused on undergraduate education. I can say without reservation that students generally get a better engineering education at schools that focus on that task. And ultimately that's what you carry into the workplace. As much as you think people will worship your degree it will not happen. When you begin your job or your graduate education it will be you that performs - not your alma mater.
</code></pre>

<p>Let me be clear, schools like Cornell do an excellent job of engineering education. I am not saying one is "bad" and the other is "good". I am saying one is "good" and the other is "better".</p>

<p>If you question my credentials as a professor I invite you to look at the following site:
<a href="http://www.uafortsmith.edu/Engineering/MeetOurProfessors%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.uafortsmith.edu/Engineering/MeetOurProfessors&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Contact me at my office or email me if you would like.</p>

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<p>" If you actually thought about this, how can you imply that the quality of the student body is correlated to acceptance rates. CUNY-Baruch has one of the lowest acceptance rates in the country, it doesn't mean it is selective. Chicago and schools such as CWRU, Michigan have very high acceptance rates."
I believe this is what I said. I guess your memory is selective, dr.</p>

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<p>I was not commenting on that post, I was commenting on your first post in this thread. I never said that the quality of the student body had to do with acceptance rates. These are seperate issues.</p>

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<p>Jeffl:</p>

<p>You mentioned your two friends who got accepted to Cooper but got rejected by other top schools, including Cornell.</p>

<p>I don't know if you understand the notion of statistical significance, but you can't judge a whole student body based on a sample of two students. I mean, I have seen a student from my high school get accepted by Cornell with under 3.5 gpa - and he had no ecs -, but I would not judge Cornell's selectivity based on that.</p>

<p>Many people I have seen at Cooper were also accepted by Cornell, and I haven't yet seen someone rejected by Cornell. But that's just the people around me. So I am still not making a concrete judgment.</p>

<p>Also, a classmate at Cooper who had a gpa between 2.0 and 3.0 transferred to Cornell last year. Again, just one person, so chill.</p>

<p>Finally, if you compare the 25-75% SAT range of Cooper's engineering school (don't say you should include art and architecture students, because that's 50% of the school) and Cornell, you will find that Cooper has an edge over Cornell. Now, that's statistically significant data. Cooper Union engineering is at least as selective as Cornell. Saying that Cooper Union isn't selective only goes to saying that Cornell isn't selective neither.</p>

<p>And for christ's sake, learn to respect others, especially when you are talking to a professor as a college student. I find comments like "I guess your memory is selective, dr." outrageous. I hope that not every Cornellian is as rude and disrespectful as you are.</p>