<p>One thing that I really don't like about Caltech is the Core Curriculum and in the end THAT might be the reason for me to decide if I want to go or not. </p>
<p>What is a pretty typical freshmen and sophmore year like at caltech (for a chem/premed major)? I know that major doesn't really matter for first two years, but for people intended in going to those fields, could you post what classes you had to take in each of the quarters?</p>
<p>thanks</p>
<p>If you want to be premed I would not encourage you to come here unless you are sure what you are getting into. Caltech is one of the hardest schools in the country, if not the hardest school, to get a high GPA at. From what I understand, that's OK for getting into grad school as the school's relative grade deflation is taken into account--but not for med school. It would be very hard for you to maintain a med-school worthy GPA.</p>
<p>I'll wait for a Chem major to post a typical chemistry schedule but according to the Caltech catalog a typical Chem-major load would look like this</p>
<p>Freshman year:
Ma 1 abc
Ph 1 abc
Ch 1 ab
Bi 8, Bi 9 OR Bi1 (not sure which chem majors usually take, Bi8/9 is the bio major route)
One HSS class per term</p>
<p>Sophomore year:
Ch 41 abc
Ma 2ab
Ph 2ab
Ch 4 ab
Ch 14</p>
<p>You can find the catalog here.</p>
<p>oh thanks!! that is what I am looking for :)</p>
<p>well I know that caltech is not great for premed but ugh :( so my options now are Caltech, UCs (also I think terrible for premed because of teh bell curve), Rice?, and I am waitlisted at Columbia. Things are not looking good for me</p>
<p>If you don't want to have to take a lot of difficult math and science courses outside of your major, you shouldn't go to Caltech.</p>
<p>Oh! That's great! I wondered if you can also tell me which are the principle majors in this college.</p>
<p>Physics > Biology = Mechanical Engineering > Computer Science > Math = Chemical Engineering = Electrical Engineering > Chemistry > Applied and Computational Mathematics = Engineering & Applied Science > Applied Physics > Geology (including Geophysics, Geochemistry, and Geobiology) = Astrophysics > Economics = Business, Economics, & Management > Planetary Science</p>
<p>This doesn't include humanities and social science majors/minors that people take on as a second major or majors that have had only one person in the last decade or so. The Engineering & Applied Science category mainly encompasses people who are majoring in Aeronautical/Aerospace Engineering or Computation and Neural Systems, as far as I know. The Chemical Engineering option has four different tracks: Biomolecular, Environmental, Process Systems, and Materials.</p>
<p>How bad is the grade deflation? My son is also pre-med, so he is concerned too. When the admissions counselor from Caltech came to his school, he said that the average GPA is 3.5. That seems pretty high to me. Does this number sound right?</p>
<p>I think a 3.5 average is ok, very normal, lower than ivys, but higher than state schools. </p>
<p>the thing I am worried is because mid school GPAs need to be more like 3.8-9, not 3.5</p>
<p>There is definitely not any grade deflation at Caltech. Like at basically every other university, the average GPA is significantly higher than is was many decades ago. I think the admissions counselor got that number from the statistic that around half of graduating seniors graduate with honors, and the fact that one way to graduate with honors is to have a 3.5 GPA or above. A lot of students graduate with honors by faculty recommendations or outstanding research. </p>
<p>I think the registrar's newsletter last year said something like 58% of students have a 3.0 or higher and 34% of students have a 3.5 or higher. This agrees with the figure I've heard from several people in the know that the median GPA has been consistently around 3.2 for the last few decades. The average is maybe just slightly lower, I would guess. As far as I know, this isn't any lower than places like UC Berkeley, MIT or Harvey Mudd.</p>
<p>On the other hand, Caltech does require a more rigorous science/math curriculum just to graduate and has one of the most talented student bodies (at least in math and science) out of every US institution I know of. You definitely have to work pretty hard to earn that 3.2. People who are sure they want to pre-meds should be very cautious about choosing to go to Caltech. Med schools are not very forgiving about a "low GPA" (i.e., < 3.8), even from Caltech. </p>
<p>I would only recommend that a prefrosh who was absolutely sure they wanted to be a premed go to Caltech if:
1) You really love your field. If you're going into medicine mainly for the great pay, attending Caltech is just going to be unnecessary pain and you probably wont do that well in your classes. You should understand and not care that you'll be working harder than the average premed at other schools for less of a shot at med school admission.
2) You know what is required by the Core curriculum and want to take it. You have to like math and physics nearly as much as you like biology and chemistry.
3) Understand that there will always be much smarter people than you here. This is a great opportunity to learn, if you're willing to take it. The culture of collaboration is one of the best parts about Caltech. Academic competitiveness is very frowned upon.
4) You like the student culture. You'll do better if you're happy and can have lots of fun with other people with what will probably be a very limited amount of free time.</p>
<p>That said, it is best that you don't mind just becoming a biologist should medical school not work out. Caltech biology majors can and do often get into great grad schools with 3.2s if they do the awesome research that is pretty readily available here for undergrads.</p>
<p>Antiquark, how did you obtain your "principal major" inequalities? According to the Hunt report data, using the total graduation numbers 2003-2007, Physics>Bio>EE>EAS>MechE>Chem>Math>CS>ECE... the glaring differences are that EAS and EE are much higher than you listed them. Of course, this doesn't even include ECE which is now just part of EE... point is, EE is one of the largest majors here in terms of both undergraduate and graduate population as well as in terms of faculty. This is especially true given the influx of EE majors in the past two years. I'm also pretty sure that ChemE is a lot smaller than EE at least in undergrad...</p>
<p>I really wish I could find some sort of listing of the current people declared for each option... but oh well.</p>
<p>As for "grade deflation" I apologize if I was using the wrong term. I did not mean that the average GPA at Caltech has gone down over the years, I meant simply that the average GPA at Caltech is significantly lower than it is at most schools. That's why I said "relative deflation". </p>
<p>BTW, this is from the registrar newsletter...</p>
<p>"Approximately 9% of undergraduates currently have a GPA of 4.0 or higher; 34% have a GPA of 3.5 or higher; and 58% have GPA of 3.0 or higher." Good memory.</p>
<p>I used the Donut directory search results for (current) undergrads when searching for each major, so there might be a big discrepancy between what people have graduated with in the last four years versus what people who are current upperclassmen have declared. The main flaw with the directory is that it finds people under all majors they've declared in addition to their current major, so the ones that people switch out of a lot like astrophysics, chemical engineering, electrical engineering, and physics are going to be a bit inflated. It definitely shows a lot more mechanical engineers than electrical though, which I think is just because of a recent surge in popularity for that major. CS, also, is a very rapidly growing major which is understandably better represented now than it was for the classes of 2003-2007.</p>
<p>This[/url</a>] shows the median GPA at Harvey Mudd a few years ago as being 3.4. [url=<a href="http://web.mit.edu/scholarships/details/fulbright.htm%5DThis%5B/url">http://web.mit.edu/scholarships/details/fulbright.htm]This[/url</a>] mentions that MIT's median GPA is the equivalent of a 3.2, without mentioning the year the data is from. I couldn't find the data for UC Berkeley, but I don't think it's that high. If [url=<a href="http://www.gradeinflation.com/%5DNational">http://www.gradeinflation.com/]National</a> Trends in Grade Inflation, American Colleges and Universities is to be believed, Harvard and Princeton passed an average 3.4 GPA a while ago, though Princeton supposedly has been trying to combat grade inflation recently. It also shows Stanford having an average of 3.44 in 1992, so it's probably higher now.</p>
<p>Hmm, the immediate thing I thought of was the old statistic that in 2002, 91% of Harvard undergrads graduated with honors. In addition, during that year roughly half of the grades awarded were either A's or A-'s. </p>
<p>Re: MIT, I have heard that it is easier to maintain a high GPA there if maintaining GPA is your main goal--there are ways to avoid taking as much math and physics (assuming of course you are not a math/physics/eng major) . This is just based on what I've heard, though... In any case, I would imagine that many tracks at MIT are just as hard as at Caltech, but that being a premed might be slightly easier on account of not having to take five terms of physics...</p>
<p>That being said, when I referred to the Caltech GPA being lower than at most schools, I wasn't referring to places like MIT or Harvey Mudd. More so the Ivies and some of the high end state schools. I also feel like even if the average GPA isn't incredibly higher than it is here, it still would be a lot easier for a person intelligent and knowledgeable enough to get into places like MIT or Caltech to do their premed elsewhere. I think you said it pretty well in post #9, antiquark.</p>
<p>Edit: I'm still interested about the MechE/EE side of things. :P Option pride, and all that!</p>