Core Curriculums

<p>The purpose of going to college is not to acquire knowledge about American history, government, affairs, etc. In fact, there is no singular purpose for getting a college education. Some people go to school purely for vocational reasons. Some do, in fact, go to study American history and government. Some just want to develop their critical thinking and writing skills in humanities courses. Therefore, we have a vastly diverse higher education system that caters to nearly every taste in education. Whether you acknowledge it or not, this broad spectrum of educational offerings is necessary for the propogation of American culture. You may think that such "fluff courses" are ridiculous, but there are plenty of people that want to take these classes, will take these classes, will be shaped by them, and will go on to contribute in meaningful ways to both culture and economy in this country in ways predicated upon the very lessons learned in those classes. No money is ever wasted on an education of any kind. And education is a term that applies to subjects far beyond government and philosophy.</p>

<p>As for "core curriculum." A core curriculum has nothing to do with the "great texts." A core curriculum simply refers to any set of classes that all students at a given school are REQUIRED to take, regardless of major. The "founding texts of society" is a phrase used only by certain schools, such as Columbia, and should not be confused with "core curriculum." There are plenty of schools whose core curricula have nothing to do with these texts; case in point, whoever mentioned Caltech's core curriculum. </p>

<p>The advantage of a core curriculum (and to a certain extent, distribution requirements) is that you gain knowledge in a more general and broad set of disciplines than if you chose all your classes for yourself. The disadvantage is that you may be stuck taking classes you really don't want to take, and either spending a great deal of time on classes that hold no importance or relevance for you, or in many cases, not caring at all and doing poorly in those classes.</p>

<p>I think it is wrong to label certain classes as a "waste of money." These courses are not a waste of money to those who take them, enjoy them, and draw a great deal of value from them. Simply because these classes do not conform to everybody's idea of a "solid, well-rounded education" does not mean that they are worthless.</p>

<p>in that case, I'll revise my labels. One might ask why these labels are so important, but I think that different requirements suggest different backing philosophies.</p>

<p>great books: a canon of literature</p>

<p>core curriculum: a class that is absolutely and undisputably required for all students</p>

<p>distribution requirements: a category for in which a student must choose a class.</p>

<p>Under these new definitions, Chicago's "core" is not a core, but rather a set of extensive distribution requirements, some which focus on great books and some which do not. There is no course at Chicago that is compulsory, though in the past I don't think that was the case.</p>

<p>In terms of addressing the OP, I think that great books have gone out of style because a) the standard "great books" canon is overwhelmingly, if not completely, male and Western, and b) some of the Great Books are of questionable relevance, not only intellectually but also to one's future. (i.e. What's a future doctor going to read Marx and Engels for?) It's a minor travesty to me that so few students want to read Great Books, but then again, I self-consciously chose a school where that wouldn't be much of an issue.</p>

<p>Read about controversy surrounding St. John's College (100% Great Books) here for more info and background. :St</a>. John's College, U.S. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>

<p>You can also read up on R.M. Hutchins, an Oberlin alum who left his mark on Chicago, for better or for worse:
Robert</a> Hutchins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>

<p>As far as distribution requirements go, I think that students just plain don't like them, the same way that students don't like early morning classes and the like. I sympathize with warblersrule who, as a classics major, had to take even more math. I sympathize with a friend's grandfather, who had to take German as part of core requirements as a chemistry major and almost failed out of German (despite going on to get his PhD in chemistry).</p>

<p>Question: do schools that have "ways of knowing" requirements or schools with standard distribution requirements have courses that are similar to the Chicago/Columbia/Reed/Whitman/Colgate/Lawrence "great books" programs?</p>

<p>Man, I hate Great Books curriculums. It ****es me off how virtually none of them include non-western texts, as if the west is the only source for great books, or that they claim to expand the realm of thinking for students without seemingly ever acknowledging the existence of thought outside Europe.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I'm not sure if we should be paying $30,000/year for such fluff.

[/quote]

Precisely. As paying customers, students should be able to choose their own classes. Having distribution requirements is like a grocery store allowing you to choose your own groceries as long as you choose some meat, fruit, and veggies. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>The nice thing about "great books" at Chicago is that it's relatively adaptable. I've read a good deal of 20th century works in great books classes, as well as poetry by contemporary women poets (Sharon Olds). For civilization requirements, one can elect to take classes that focus on non-Western cultures.</p>

<p>I think that "great books," instead of narrowing your understanding of what's "important" to intellectual history, expands your appreciation for what's out there by giving you the tip of the iceberg. Doing Plato and Aristotle made me more curious about other cultures, not less.</p>

<p>Let me put in my two cents worth if I may on the subject of Core Curriculums and Distribution requirements.</p>

<p>The earliest colleges in America had uniform - indeed, rigid - curricula. </p>

<p>Learning was in the traditional classical mode. There were no electives; every student took the same set of courses. The purposes were to train civic leaders and educated clergymen, and the prevailing view was that there was one and only one way to do that. This lasted for considerably more than a century. </p>

<p>But in the first part of the 19th century, demand for more practical education led to gradual change in college curricula. Practical subjects were added, and colleges began to allow students to take electives. The once-rigid curriculum was broken down. </p>

<p>This trend accelerated after the Civil War, especially with the development of the land grant colleges following the passage of the Morrill Act in 1862. But the electives movement got out of hand with a wild proliferation of courses (sounds a bit like customization). By the end of the century, curricula had lost their coherence and the wide availability of electives had resulted in OVER-SPECIALIZATION.</p>

<p>And so there was a reaction in the 20th century. Two lines of reform were followed. </p>

<p>1) First was the concept of the major with additional distribution requirements. The idea was that the distribution requirements would satisfy the need for breadth in the program, while the major would create depth of learning in at least one subject. Distribution requirements usually insist that a student take a certain number of courses from a variety of disciplines. </p>

<p>For example, at certain Christian Colleges ( e.g. Grove City, Wheaton, Thomas Aquinas, Francisan College at Steubenville) , and even colleges like Hillsdale, no matter what his or her major, a student must take several semester hours of laboratory science. </p>

<p>2) The second was the idea of the general education requirement, which was intended to provide every student with something like the FOUNDATION in liberal learning that had once been at the heart of the classical curriculum.</p>

<p>Again as an example, all students at the above mentioned colleges as I learned from some professors I know there, must take a series of humanities courses which introduce them to the seminal ideas of Western Civilization. Why Western ? because their reasoning is that WESTERN IDEAS ( e.g. those formed in the Rennaisance and the Enlightenment ) were the BACKBONE for the founding principles of the United States. You UNDERSTAND Civics and Understand the foundation of this country by UNDERSTANDING THE IDEAS THAT UNDERGIRD THEM. </p>

<p>It is no wonder that those colleges that have strong core curriculums always come out on top in terms of civics knowledge. This has been shown for two consecutive years by a study made by the ISI in conjunction with the University of Connecticut. See here :</p>

<p>Civic</a> Literacy Report - Rankings</p>

<p>As for this endangering colleges into harboring a parochial view that only the west has contributed to good ideas, that's NONSENSE.</p>

<p>These core curriculums ALSO study Eastern and Worldwide ideas but CONTRAST them to Western ideas and in classroom discussions and exchanges, attempt to investigate why Western ideas came to prevail in the 19th and 20th century instead of eastern ones. Why for instance, do most modern inventions and scientific discoveries come from the west ? Questions like these are discussed and debated in class with no fear or favor for one culture over the other as long as objective discussions are respected.</p>

<p>Both of these reforms, distribution requirements and general education requirements, have survived in various forms to the present.</p>

<p>There was an additional hiccup, recent enough that I lived through it myself. Many of you will recall the student unrest at the time of the Vietnam War and the pressures to revise college curricula that came with that. One main thrust was to eliminate or greatly reduce the number of required courses, to allow the students much more latitude in planning their programs. </p>

<p>This harks back, of course, to the ELECTIVES MOVEMENT of the 19th century and it had some of the same results - incoherence in the curriculum, over-specialization, poorly educated students as far as liberal learning was concerned. Since then, there has been some reaction to what came to be known as the "cafeteria approach" to higher education, with the emergence of core curricula and the like. Now, however, we are told that the pendulum is swinging back again, toward fewer requirements and more choice.</p>

<p>So, what do I think is the outlook for the future ?</p>

<p>Dealing with these demands will be a problem for us all. But even though this looks like more of the same, of history repeating itself, there is, I think, something different this time around. The pressure for customization is coming not from a demand for more practical education, as it did in the 19th century, although there are steady pressures for vocationalism in our colleges and universities. Even the programs of that period of the development of electives had some coherence. Customization did not extend to the individual student; the electives were designed to meet some reasonably well-defined and well-recognized need. Nor does the demand emanate from the rejection of authority by students strongly opposed to an unpopular war, as it did about Vietnam in the 1960s ( older folks will remember the chant --- HEY HEY HO HO, WESTERN CIVS HAS GOTTA GO !! ).</p>

<p>Now, it seems to me, the pressure for customization is rooted in changing social mores and the personal experiences of our young people.</p>

<p>That is one difference. The other difference is that the kind of customization that the keynoter had in mind is more feasible now due to the technological advances of the last decade. Certainly it is far easier now to share resources among institutions, to permit students to take courses that are produced at other colleges, even to put together courses that they themselves design. And this is happening. In many instances, it is developing not because of the demand for customization, but simply to take advantage of economies that can be had by collaboration. The teaching of foreign languages with small demand by internet is one example. The sharing of costly scientific instrumentation, using remote access, is another opportunity. And this will undoubtedly grow.</p>

<p>Furthermore, it is virtually certain that schools will, in fact, cater to the demands of the Burger King generation. </p>

<p>They will have little choice in the matter if they wish to compete, to survive. Even so, the extent of individualized study will always be limited by cost. It has been in the past, and what we see today reflects in part the reductions in costs that have occurred as the result of the technological revolution.</p>

<p>So the future of higher education will be shaped in part by these two factors - </p>

<p>1) the lower costs of personalized instructional programs; and
2) the growing demand for them. </p>

<p>Cost reductions due to technological change appear to be inevitable and generally desirable. It is the changes on the demand side - or, more accurately, what those changes reflect about American society and its future - that are of deeper concern.</p>

<p>Here I make reference to a new study of the history of the 20th century by a someone at the Hoover Institution in Stanford, the esteemed historian, Robert Conquest. </p>

<p>The book is called Reflections on a Ravaged Century, and it's well worth reading. In it, Conquest looks back on the bloody century just concluded and attempts to understand the root causes of its catastrophes - the two world wars, fascism, communism. What does he find? For Conquest, it is fanatical dedication to an idea, an ideology whose adherents brook no dissension, that is at the root of the world's suffering during the century.</p>

<p>If intolerant, fanatical dedication to a single idea has been the cause of these sufferings, the flip side is that a democratic and free society must be tolerant and pluralist - but that pluralism MUST REST ON A SOLID CONSENSUS.</p>

<p>Conquest argues that such consensus preceded British democracy and that it could not have been otherwise. The same was true for America - consensus on the nature of the society existed before the Constitution, indeed before the Revolution. The Federalist Papers can be seen as an effort to strengthen that consensus by persuading people who had differing economic interests to support the Union. If there is no consensus, democracy is hollow; it may be no more than the dominance of a majority group over the minority, one set of interests in power by election rather than by other means. </p>

<p>We have been able to maintain a consensus regarding the central values of our society for more than two centuries. If the consensus were to break down, the basis for a democracy in which the rights of minorities are protected against the tyranny of the majority could be lost. What is this consensus? What is its basis?</p>

<p>This is not the time for political philosophy and I am not a philosopher. But I think we would all agree that our nation is built on the ideals of FREEDOM. </p>

<p>Surely it is dedication to those ideals that led our forefathers to come to this land, that was responsible for the War of Independence, that was at the heart of the Constitution, that has been the central principle governing our political life ever since. And, in a sense, the Burger King society reflects an element of this notion: that we are free to do what we want, as long as what we do doesn't interfere with the freedoms of others. </p>

<p>But there is something more to be said. Our ideas about freedom are - and were at the Founding - ROOTED IN SOMETHING DEEPER. </p>

<p>At base, they are rooted in the Judeo-Christian tradition and its central values. Whether we like it or not IT IS WHAT IT IS. Now some inthis forum who read this might be turned off by this statement, but YOU CAN'T CHANGE HISTORY and no amount of ignoring it is going to change that fact.</p>

<p>It is in that tradition that the value of the individual human being is most strongly expressed, that the relationship between the person and the Creator is understood, that the basis for thinking that every individual is important is laid down. Without that, there is no basis for arguing that individual freedom matters.</p>

<p>For that reason, it is crucial that the consensus about the great tradition that is at the heart of our freedom be maintained. Until fairly recently, the elements of the tradition could be taught in the schools. The values connected with the Judeo-Christian tradition, if not the religious practices themselves, were emphasized. But few of our public schools can deal with these topics any longer, as we all know.</p>

<p>Nor are these things popular in higher education. Quite the contrary. Much of higher education seems dedicated to destroying these ideas, to convincing students that all values are relative, that none stands ahead of others, that it's all a matter of choice, which is, perhaps, the most malevolent manifestation of the Burger King society.</p>

<p>So, if we want college students to understand the foundation of the United States of America, I can't see why taking a core curriculum that views the great writers, philosophers, artists, historical developments and other elements of the liberal education can be bad or obsolete. </p>

<p>What's wrong with giving college students an education that provides a solid understanding not only of freedom itself but also of its fundamental sources and rationale ?</p>

<p>I believe that a core curriculum that provides future voters with an APPRECIATION of the PHILOSOPHY behind the founding of this country is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL in developing good citizens.</p>

<p>Let's not turn our back on this and support those colleges that strive to have them.</p>

<p>RE:</p>

<hr>

<h2>As paying customers, students should be able to choose their own classes. Having distribution requirements is like a grocery store allowing you to choose your own groceries as long as you choose some meat, fruit, and veggies.</h2>

<p>Hey, as long as parents and students are happy with such courses as How to be Gay 101 and are willing to pay good money for attending it, I guess there will be a market for such courses.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Hey, as long as parents and students are happy with such courses as How to be Gay 101 and are willing to pay good money for attending it, I guess there will be a market for such courses.

[/quote]

I'm not sure what that has to do with a core curriculum. Nobody is forcing a student to take that class- (s)he could take American Lit or physics instead.</p>

<p>I'm irritable because I've had a devil of a time trying to fit in two majors and meet ridiculous curriculum requirements. I suppose it does vary from school to school, and my school is stricter than some because it doesn't allow AP credits to count. I got a 5 on an AP language exam; why should I have to take a language? I took advanced math in high school; why should I have to take it now? There are so many courses I'd like to take, and every required course means one less I can take.</p>

<p>Since the OP asked about other top schools with Core programs, here's some more info on Scripps' three-semester "Culture, Knowledge, and Representation" sequence (mentioned by mini):</p>

<p>Scripps</a> College : Core Curriculum in Interdisciplinary Humanities</p>

<p>"Some students call it the toughest learning experience they've ever had. Most admit it lays the foundation for every subsequent college course."</p>

<p>US News also profiled the program not too long ago. From the Scripps website (the link to the article is outdated, but it may still be online somewhere): "Within the issue, Scripps' signature Core Program in Interdisciplinary Humanities is highlighted in a feature story "Back to Classics," with quotes from Professor Marc Katz and Scripps sophomore Sarah Sullivan. Along with Columbia University and St. Johns College, Scripps is noted as a college that fosters an intellectual community by giving students a shared, broad base of knowledge and skills."</p>

<p>I found a website for the Association of Core Texts and Courses. Scripps is not a member, but Chicago, Columbia, Shimer, Whitman, St. John's College, Colgate, and others are.</p>

<p>I have no idea what the implications of being a member of this group is, aside from promoting a "core." This school might be a good place to start for a list of options (some more selective than others), but it by no means an end-- I think each school on this list needs to researched pretty carefully.</p>

<p>[url=<a href="http://coretexts.org/inst_members.htm%5DACTC%5B/url"&gt;http://coretexts.org/inst_members.htm]ACTC[/url&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p>

<p>My son is considering a small Catholic college, even though we're not Catholic and I just got a list of their required core classes and it seems quite extensive.<br>
College Composition 3 Credits
Critical Analysis and Composition 3
History of the West and the World 3
Introduction to Sacred Scripture 3
Introduction to Philosophy 3</p>

<pre><code> One Choice from Philosophy Series 3
One Choice from Theology Series 3
One Choice from the Literature Series 3
One Choice from the Fine Arts Series 3
Another Philosophy or Theology Choice 3
One Choice from Social Sciences 3
Senior Seminar or Approved Capstone 3
</code></pre>

<p>This just seems like quite a few classes. What do you think? My son will be a physician assistant major.</p>

<p>toledo -- Most of the Catholic universities have extensive core curricula or required general ed requirements. It is one of their characteristics.
To the OP -- I think you have your question backward. MOST schools have some sort of distribution requirements. The ones that have none at all are the exception (Amherst, Brown, etc.)</p>

<p>
[quote]
But first, I think it's important to sort out often conflated terms. For argument's sake, let's call them "distribution requirements" and "core."</p>

<p>Core: implies that the course is focused on the Great Books. (Part of the reason Core is unpopular, I imagine, is that there is a lot of controversy over the "Great Books" and their tendency to exclude non-Western and non-male lines of thought). I would argue, though, that there's no formal definition of a "Great Book," and works by Betty Friedan and Confucius are as "great" as works by Plato and Aristotle. Some schools have retained the "dead white guys" as part of core more than others.</p>

<p>Distribution requirements are a set of, well, distribution requirements. The difference between a core science class and a distribution science requirement would be the difference between reading Ptolemy and Harvey and "Rocks for Jocks," or the difference between reading Jane Austen and "Physics for Poets"

[/quote]
</p>

<p>In post #3, unalove drew this nice distinction drawn between "core" and "distribution requirements." A bit later in the thread, it's noted that a classical core is not necessarily a Great Books course, but that it's still something quite different from a set of general ed requirements. My school, for example, had a three semester classical core as well as a set of general ed requirements, the latter of which *included<a href="but%20was%20not%20limited%20to">/i</a> a breadth requirement (one course in each of a number of different disciplines). Neither "core" nor "distribution requirement" fully described the set of required courses, so the distinction is important.</p>

<p>The OP himself has not returned to clarify his intent, but presumably, his question was neither backwards, nor dealing with the type of core (gen ed) about which toledo is asking. In my experience, the distinction is difficult to grasp by those who aren't already familiar with some sort of classical core program (and these are pretty rare), mostly because of overlap in terminology.</p>

<p>A final thought re: fluff courses...</p>

<p>Invaluable. Entertaining to read about? Sure. Seemingly useless? Also true. Yes, college is about learning, preparing for a career, growing up, narrowing focus, and so forth. But it's also about embracing a period of time in which one is required to do nothing more than learn. It's about exploring, dabbling, broadening one's horizons, and opening one's mind. It's about getting the chance to learn about things that interest you, but that you might not get another chance to really explore. If that means that the engineer takes a course in poetry, then great. If the financial analyst wants to explore blackness, where's the problem?</p>

<p>First of all, these crazy sounding courses will never make up the majority of a student's transcript. It's unlikely that a student will have more than the very smallest hand-full of them, if that. The courses generally fill up quickly, require special permission to add, have traditional pre-reqs, or are special-interest (and probably upper division) in nature...or they're just fun ways to spice up something like Freshman Composition, in which case, as long as the lectures still include stuff like how to write a thesis, how to structure an essay, and so forth, there's no reason a student can't practice with Cyberfeminism! In other words, when it comes to these classes, it's most likely that either the course does serve a real academic purpose (even if it's a tiny little niche), or it's just a way to add appeal to a drab (but still useful) requirement.</p>

<p>Interestingly, it's been my own experience that outside of the most self-explanatorily named courses, the catchy-ness of a class title is directly proportional to its difficulty. Courses usually have to go through an approval process. They have to be taken seriously by other professors, they have to be able to stand up to accreditation committees and trustees, etc., so if the class sounds totally ridiculous, it's a good bet that it's actually pretty intense, academically speaking. Professors don't want to teach to a room full of students who are just looking for an easy blow-off course.</p>

<p>"Analysis of Rock Music" remains one of the most difficult courses ever taken (and loved!) by a number of my friends. Other big challenges I heard about included both Human Sexuality and Psychology of Close Relationships. This is all anecdotal, and I've no doubt that there are exceptions (that is, crazy sounding courses that really are just that), but the important point is that there's often more to these classes than the titles would suggest. Don't be too quick to judge.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Distribution requirements are a set of, well, distribution requirements. The difference between a core science class and a distribution science requirement would be the difference between reading Ptolemy and Harvey and "Rocks for Jocks," or the difference between reading Jane Austen and "Physics for Poets"

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This, as written by unalove a while back, is somewhat unfair, but I skimmed through this thread so I apologize if this has already been addressed. </p>

<p>Distribution requirements have some very big benefits, and going to a school that has them, I have come to realize it. </p>

<p>For example, my schedule is very oppressive at times because I not only have to fulfill the requirements of my major, but I also have to fulfill the requirements for admission for as many veterinary schools as possible in the US, which is a big undertaking. That means I have to take 4-5 extra courses that I would not take if I were just to complete the requirements for my department. On top of that, my school runs on a semester system, which allows for less courses total than a quarter or trimester system. Therefore, distribution requirements help me take courses off of my track, and allow me to explore other areas of study without being stuck in the confines of a core system, which does not allow substitutions of any kind.
Lets say I have to take two courses total in the "Social Analysis" distribution. I can look in my schools course listing for that distribution, and I have the choice of all of those courses. So instead of taking a large lecture course like Microeconomics, I can take a smaller course that is more interesting for me...Introduction to Comparative Politics. Or for "Literature and the Arts", instead of taking a course on Shakespeare, I can take a course on "Victorian Poetry", or "Contemporary Art since 1950". </p>

<p>Although the courses I choose may not be the academic canon, I think they hold just as much merit. Most importantly, I enjoy the idea that my university entrusts me with the ability to judge the value of my own education.</p>

<p>I didn't mean to belittle distribution requirements by giving them the humorous fluff titles-- I intended to demonstrate that the realm of courses that are "core" is smaller than the subset of courses that would be considered "distribution requirement." The difference between core and distribution requirement is most recognizable in a science course. In a core science course, students read Harvey and Newton. In a distribution science course, students learn about Newton and glance over Harvey, because Harvey is factually wrong.</p>

<p>The primary difference between a core course and a distribution requirement course is that secondary texts are not discussed in the former. You read Smith and Marx, not what other people have to say about Smith and Marx. The distribution requirement class could be just as hard, or even harder-- it just has a different aim.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The primary difference between a core course and a distribution requirement course is that secondary texts are not discussed in the former.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Actually, I don't know if that is always the case, and I don't see your reasoning as to why a distribution requirement course can't use primary or secondary sources. I thought the designation of "core" curriculum and otherwise applies to the organization of the courses within the curriculum, their compulsory enrollment, and the usage of what is considered to be the academic canon. </p>

<p>At my DR university, a course called "Evolution and Genetics" uses Darwin's * On the Origin of Species *, Jean Baptiste Lamarck's papers, and Jacques Monod's works, among others. These are all primary or secondary sources...and yet its not part of a core.</p>

<p>tokyorevelation: Core can mean a number of different things. I suspect that you and unalove are understanding the term in different ways. For that matter, I think that unalove and I are understanding the term in different ways, but at least there's some overlap. </p>

<p>To add on to unalove's last post, I want to bring back a point made earlier, which is that a core course doesn't have to be a course in the great books (nor is a great books course necessarily a core course). A core course, however, is probably more likely to discuss great books, "ways of knowing," or a history of ideas (in an analytical sense, not just as a timeline).</p>

<p>I think that one of the things that's become clear in this thread is how many different things get labeled "core," and how difficult they are to distinguish by those who haven't experienced all of them. Reading through, I know that my own experience with a core (Scripps) was different than what many posters are thinking of, but it's difficult to place my finger on exactly how it was so unique. I don't want to compare it to a freshman seminar or writing course, because many schools have those and they're usually quite different. I don't want to call it a great books course, because again, not really its focus. It wasn't something like a "core science" course because it was interdisciplinary. That said, it was in many ways a freshman seminar, it was based on classical primary-source readings, and hey, there was some science in there. </p>

<p>In Claremont, we had 5 undergrad schools right next to each other, and more than just Scripps talked about a core, but we all meant different things. It always had to be distinguished: Scripps' core, Mudd's core, etc. It wasn't just that the courses themselves were different, it was that the word was used to refer to totally different things across the various campuses. Same trouble we're running into here, but without the benefit of being able to easily see what we each mean! The best thing I can think to do is refer to a "classical core," but that's rife with problems, too. </p>

<p>I suspect that mini might be able to make some helpful distinctions, having had experience with multiple core programs...</p>

<p>Way back in Post #14, M's Mom wrote:</p>

<p>"I suspect core courses, which are usually huge lectures of the 101 sort, are a way for schools to cut their costs. The more requirements that force students to take elementary level classes (often with inexperienced and non-tenured faculty), the better their bottom line."</p>

<p>I don't think so... At Chicago, the Core courses are small discussion classes, designed to teach students how to think. They are taught by both young and highly experienced faculty who interact with the students on a highly personal level.</p>

<p>For a pro-core view and guide to colleges, check out Choosing</a> the Right College, with the caveat that the word "right" also describes the book's political leanings.</p>