Cornell and UVA - how do the academic atmospheres compare?

College Search & Selection
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My daughter is a JUNIOR - so not making a last minute choice today! We are helping her finish up her list of schools to apply to. So far two of her favorites are UVA and Cornell. I know they are selective and that means her chances for Cornell are best if she applies ED. I am trying to get more info on the academic pressures/atmosphere/stress level at Cornell compared to a school like UVA. She would be studying business. We want to make sure she would be comfortable at Cornell before suggesting an ED app.

So, does anyone have students studying business at either school that could comment on this? How stressed out are the kids? How much competition and pressure do they feel? I know it’s individual to an extent, but there is also a norm which is what I’m hoping to find. Some say Cornell is more high-stress but I’m not sure how true it is.

Thanks

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Cornell has a number of different colleges, each with a different culture as well as level of selectivity. You have plenty of time to visit; just be sure to go to campus when you can hear an overview of the particular college that interests you. Most undergrads apply to the college of arts & sciences, but there’s a lot more happening than just that college. It’s a gorgeous campus but the weather and the isolation don’t compare favorably to Virginia.

We thought Cornell was amazing, but our child was uninterested, largely bc of the competitive stress vibe/reputation. Pease don’t consider applying ED to a school your child hasn’t visited! It’s a serious commitment.

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I felt Cornell was a lot more high strung. I preferred the UVA atmosphere to it.

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I have two students at UVA, including one interested in the McIntire business school. While both have found the courses to be rigorous – as should be expected of a well-regarded public ivy – these public school graduates have also found that doing the reading, going to class, taking good notes, updating the notes, going to discussion, and meeting with the professor and/or TA when confused (and as many times as needed) yields really exceptional grades. Which, as you can imagine, takes the academic pressure off. Also, UVA students are notorious for being more competitive about “being involved” socially than they are about their classwork. In my guys’ experience, students do not talk much about their individual grades, are very collaborative, and in several classes my guys found themselves helping out their peers in courses solidly within their wheelhouse, while seeking aid from other students who excelled at a course that had them initially befuddled.

And my kids and I did share your concern. The other school in their “top two” did have a reputation – who knows if entirely warranted – of being quite intense and generating a fair amount of academic anxiety. Since my guys already care about their grades, they didn’t want the additional, unnecessary stress of competing with overly-intense classmates.

And as I mentioned above, the real trick to UVA first year is keeping your extracurriculars in check until you better understand your academic commitments. That can be exceptionally hard because there is just so much to do. My guys felt upon arrival that they would do nothing but study – they were a bit pessimistic about college life to say the least – but now they are active in club sports, improv comedy, clubs associated with film, media and politics, the school newspaper, intramurals and volunteer coaching for a local kids’ sports team. And outside of the organized activities, they go to a ridiculous (and wonderful) number of D1 UVA sports events, speakers’ events, apple picking, hiking, day trips to amusement parks, stops for wings and sushi at the Corner, etc. It’s been a really terrific year.

That being said, my husband went to the ILR School at Cornell. He LOVED the ILR school. He loved Cornell. He loved Ithica and found the entire campus to be gorgeous. And he felt Cornell prepared him very well for law school. His only negatives were that it is cold and dark. But he would have been happy to have his sons go there had they been willing to go to school that far from home. (They weren’t, so I won. I’m a UVA law grad!)

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We have visited both schools. My DD did a summer class at Cornell and loved it. She had a great experience. We also did the tour and info session. So she was leaning towards ED but now we’re not sure. I don’t know if we will be able to visit again to see it during a regular semester. If she likes both schools equally she could do RD to Cornell and EA to UVA. But her chances for Dyson without ED are small. That’s the dilemma.

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Chances at Dyson, even with ED, are very small. The acceptance rate is the lowest of all the Cornell colleges.

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Yes. I should have said her chances are even smaller if she doesn’t do ED for Cornell. Dyson acceptance rate is ridiculous. But if it’s the right place for her then at least ED gives her the best chance. My goal here is to help figure out if it’s really the best option since ED is binding.

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D18 just went through the Holistic narrowing process from a very Long List of { Schools Visited ( 30 ) & others Contemplated ( 10 ) }. And she Narrowed it to 15ish applied to.

In applying she had a subset of her Safty, her Likely and her Reach.

With a 5.22 GPA, 1500 SAT, 12 AP and all others Honors, Athletics and many EC’s it opens “some” doors. Many doors ? are very narrow to fit through however.

In anticipating this I encouraged her not to apply ED at any of her Top Choice schools and in the end it made the most sense for her as having multiple options and seeing every financial aid package mattered in the end. For instance she was accepted by both UVA and The University of Michigan. Both OOS options. University of Michigan turned out to be $15,000 more per year.

The doors for OOS at both are Sub 20% acceptance rates…

Applying ED wouldn’t have limited her options and had she applied ED to the University of Michigan it would have been a $60,000 Error in Cost. The differences in acceptance rates from ED to RD wasn’t significant at her options as well.

IMO throw many Darts ? at a very large BullsEye and then take a second Holistic View of “Given” options after the fact before the commit. RD acceptances narrows it down to one decided choice with limited visibility.

That said D18 visited both UVA and Cornell and she Ultimately choose UVA in the long run after visiting the Campus and sensing the vibe of the Campus. D18 fits the profile description of 2kidstocollege18 as found at UVA to the T. Making UVA a perfect fit. She didn’t apply to Cornell after having visited the Campus and getting a sense of the Student Body. I personally loved Cornell.

Now looking back I noticed two schools in particular that had a significant enough difference in the ED acceptance rate where I would recommend applying if they were the #1 Top Choice school for the individual and money didn’t matter.

Cornell and John’s Hopkins. You significantly up your chances at these two schools ( I’m sure there are others ) to validate applying ED.

D18 didn’t apply ED to any school. She applied EA to more than 1/2 her schools and got accepted at all her EA schools except 2. She is on the Waitlist at Georgetown and NotreDame.

Her approach has been extremely satisfying and fruitful. Leaving the Decision in her hands. Many good options, my favorite and for awhile her Top Choice Boston College among many others. Having options is always good as even in a few month period of narrowing those options a certain sense of certainty takes hold in the applicant.

Enjoy the Journey before You

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I think visiting is key. My friend’s son just toured UVA (dad is an alumni and his older brother was rejected but loved the school). He didn’t like it at all. Felt totally overwhelmed and immediately crossed it off the list.

My niece went to Cornell (ED) and loved it! I asked her about the stress because D21 was initially interested. She said it’s stressful, but also that there are plenty of resources available. She said the key is being willing to reach out and ask for help when you need it, and you will get it. She worked extremely hard, and A’s aren’t just handed out, but loved her time there. They also hold a special place in our hearts after not charging her for her senior year when my sister (her mom) passed unexpectedly.

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Dyson is really hard to get into, these days.
And, don’t know if you are in-state, but from my area which is not in Virginia, U Va is also very hard to get into.
(though probably not as hard as Dyson). So presumably more options will be developed…

By repute, Dyson is not as demanding academically as some of the other parts of Cornell.
[Which does not explain why my D2, who said the course she took at Dyson was easy, got her lowest grade in that course !!.] I don’t think the whining is coming from Dyson students. Actually Dyson is supposedly a really good place to be. eg, read this:
http://blogs.cornell.edu/david/2014/05/02/6-reasons-why-aem-was-the-best-move-of-my-cornell-career/

If your D is interested, and has a realistic chance of admission, I think she should check it out for possible ED. I don’t think the workload should be a deterrent, not for Dyson. Not that it will be a cakewalk either.

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@J123D123 You don’t need to be swimming in money to apply ED to a school. If they don’t give enough aid, you are not bound to go there (nor in general will a college retaliate against kids who break ED agreements).

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Not the point…

Of course you don’t.

The idea is having a Best Case Scenario. I believe in Win Win Stratigies. I believe in having many options and then deciding.

So if one is fully decided and applies ED and gets in and “can’t” afford it… A Win Lose Scenario. Imagine the recovery|dilemma… the increased risk of making a bad economic decision out of some under pressure of not knowing any other option EGO satisfaction to go into debt for $300,000 Plus to go to an Ivy.

Yes I know someone who just made that same very bad decision. Imagine knowing it’s ED and you have to decide/commit and lock in and you know it’s a huge debt load.

So my advice is to have the money or explore all options.

You assume everyone is capable of being rational when locked in to a ED consideration that they can’t afford.

Tell that to the kid who just committed to X Ivy school at full cost… all on borrowed money.

So yes it’s often advised that one should apply ED typically when they know with some degree of certainty they can afford the school. Otherwise it’s often advised to go the EA and RD path and open up all options and see all financial aid packages ?. This is the prudent path allowing one the most time to consider all acceptances.