Cornell -- BEST of the Ivies

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
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<p>We have all seen many posts suggesting that Cornell is the “worst” of the Ivies. I reject this characterization. I reject the very premise upon which it is based.</p>

<p>First we must agree (or agree to disagree) on what is meant by “best” or “worst”– I readily admit that based on criteria such as GPA-SAT-Acceptance Percentage, other Ivy League Schools are more selective in their admissions process. This is unarguable. However, it is also unarguable that the gap is small, and that the overall and that the overlap in qualifications of student bodies is far greater than any difference.</p>

<p>I further concede that if you were to ask the man in the street “which is better, Harvard or Cornell” that the most common answer would be Harvard. If that is your criteria for measuring which school is best – so be it, you’re entitled to your opinion.</p>

<p>Ezra Cornell stated: “I would found an institution where any person can find instruction in any study.” This is Cornell’s mission. This is what Cornell strives for and this is the standard against which Cornell against which I judge Cornell.</p>

<p>Using this standard, how do Cornell ‘s undergraduate schools match up. With its 7 distinct colleges, Cornell offers a broader range of educational opportunities than any Ivy League School. Make fun of “aggies” (are they still called this today) if you will. CALS is a world-class institution. Best of the Ivies. </p>

<p>Let’s look at the other schools. Though I hate comparisons because I’m not sure I know what ‘best’ means but I’ll take a shot.</p>

<p>Architecture – most admired undergraduate programs – Cornell #1.
Engineering – Best in the Ivies (only Princeton comes close).
Hotel – Best in the Nation.
IL&R – Best in the Ivies (in the nation?)
Human Ecology – Best in the Ivies (in the Nation?)</p>

<p>This leaves Arts & Sciences (my alma mater). Top 10? Top 15? Based on SAT-Grades. Somewhere in that range surely, based on grades/SAT-ACT. If you can explain to me what the difference between say #15 is and what #10 is in any way that has any meaning, I’ll listen. Until then, I would maintain that the diversity in academic excellence that Cornell University has provides an intellectual environment for CAS students that is unavailable in any other Ivy.</p>

<p>In many ways, Cornell is an anomaly in the Ivy League. It is larger than the other schools, and it offers broader educational opportunities. Cornell's mission is likely not the same as these other institutions.</p>

<p>However, Cornell is true to ITS mission and IMO is best at what it does. This is what Cornell does and this is why Cornell has greatness.</p>

<p>Cornell is not Harvard or Yale and it does not try to be. But then again, Harvard and Yale are not Cornell.</p>

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<p>Great post. I think people are just caught up on the idea on which ivy league school is the best, and quite honestly it doesn’t matter. No matter what ivy league school you go to (or Stanford if you count that as well) you will have opportunities in life others would KILL to have.</p>

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<p>I think that people are just caught up with the term “Ivy” often not fully thinking about what a school’s educational philosophy is.</p>

<p>But that’s a rant for another day!!!</p>

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<p>Zephyr 15,</p>

<p>Yes indeed, great post!</p>

<p>I would like to add in terms of ranking that Cornell is always listed as 5th or 6th in nation for Computer Science under either Arts and Sciences OR the Engineering School.</p>

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<p>How is the politics department? Graduate school rankings have Cornell at 20th…</p>

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<p>Great post, zephyr15. I will concede that the students at Cornell are on average marginally lower achieving than the “top” schools, but I don’t think that has any sort of negative impact relative to HYP. To me it’s like, do you want a $90,000 Mercedez or an $85,000 Mercedez. And that’s when you narrowly look at just the aspect of student body academic achievement. </p>

<p>@Saugus: I would be skeptical of political science graduate rankings since generally they are small departments at school (small sample size bias in any sort of rigorous methodology will be suspect). Further, it will depend what area of politics you are interested in studying. At the graduate level, you are probably going to be focusing on some specific area like political philosophy, comparative politics, international politics, international political economy, or any number of things. Harvard could be #1 in one area and #50 in another. Cornell does NOT offer a Masters in Political Science, only a PhD at the graduate level, so I’m not sure how that helps/hurts Cornell’s rank. </p>

<p>It’s also unclear if graduate program strength is meaningful for assessing the undergraduate program. Something rankings can’t account for, but is arguably most important (esp. in undergrad) is quality of teaching. If you’ve ever done any teaching, you know being good at something and teaching it are wildly different skills. For example, I regularly teach karate. I have a good amount of experience yet there are people who have been training half as long with a lot less knowledge who are better at making students “get it.”</p>

<p>I took a variety of classes at Cornell, and I found overall the Government Department to have the strongest instructors. They are accessible and engaging. All of them are well-accomplished in the field. Prof. Katzenstein basically founded International Political Economy. Prof. Kramnick is a heavyweight in the political philosophy field. Of course my favorite instructor was my advisor, who is an up-and-comer in the field. He’s relatively young (early 30s), but he’s done significant field research in the Middle East and widely cited.</p>

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<p>Selectivity doesn’t correlate with educational quality. Johns Hopkins and Vanderbilt demonstrate that - maybe even take foreign universities in this picture. In terms of selectivity and educational quality, those of Cornell CAS and Engineering is comparable to those of Penn. As for individual programs, Cornell leads the world and many of the ivies in business, architecture, engineering, psychology, sciences, math, and the niche majors such as hotel management and labor relations. Cornell education epitomizes breadth and is ample in depth.<br>
Extracurricular wise, there is a wealth of clubs, internships, externships, research, positions, and any other form of opportunity available on campus, off campus, and around the world. In terms of grad school placement, Cornell is known for placing many students in top grad school across all fields. It’s vet school is rated number 1 in the nation, and its other programs are not too shabby either - many are in the top 10, and cornell lets many undergrads interact with the graduate dept. and professors. Its large class size also allows those interested in the greener side of things to get all of the network they need to secure top jobs at top firms upon graduation.</p>

<p>As for the idea of “best” of the ivies, I don’t believe that there is one. Each ivy is best at its own areas. What are those strengths? That is up for you to research and not for me to take lightly and overgeneralize, because i think each of them is amazing in their own ways. Since each ivy can be best in individual things, they can be worst at individual things - they are probably not best for everything. I just mentioned some of the best for Cornell (I am sure to miss a few), and yes there are some fields that Cornell does not do so well on - that is for you to find out, and for you to consider when you decide between cornell and a school that is better for that purpose (not just by ranks - but by extracurricular opportunities in the related field). As for the term “worst ivy”, that would depend on the individual and the field that they’re interested in. Cornell would be the best ivy in the fields I mentioned here, but it can be worst in many other majors. It’s up to the student to define with his field of interest. As for prestige, Cornell is admittedly not up to par with HYPSM, but it is comparable to Penn and Columbia (perhaps slightly lower for domestics those who actually know and can name the ivies individually because of its marginally higher acceptance rate, but equal to the eyes of people around the world) and above that of Brown and Dartmouth (Difference in size of school - brown and dartmouth are comparable to lacs, particular areas of strengths and focuses, and plainly name recognition). However, realize that prestige will not get you far at all. You define yourself, not your college. A Brown, or not even, a state school student may do better than a Cornellian in the long run depending on what those individuals do with their education and their time in their schools. As for employment, it isn’t the prestige that gets you the job, it’s your connections - as said, Cornell is pretty darn ample in that.</p>

<p>For future potential undergrad students - here’s a tip. Don’t just choose a school just because of how it appears on USNews ranking or because it has an ivy label on it. Choose it because you think you will excel in the next four years of your life there and see if the college is right for you. That means starting your research early and not coming to regret your choices a little too late. There are many undergraduate students in all colleges who are discontent with the choices they made in high school, but changing their college now is much harder to do than before, socially and academically. This is something you want to do your homework early for.</p>

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<p>@Colene, post #7</p>

<p>Excellent post Colene. I really appreciated the well rounded thought you put into it. Thanks.</p>

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<p>I agree. I love Cornell!</p>

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<p>Also the teaching staff at Cornell is amazing. (I’m a physics major so I’m going to focus more on the sciency classes). When I went for my first visit to the campus I was told a story about how there were 2 profs who were heading the mars rover project. One left the room to answer a call and the kids were getting upset because they weren’t allowed to use phones in the class. The prof came back and told the class they were about to witness pictures of the surface of Mars before NASA would even get to see them.</p>

<p>Carl Sagan and (my all time favorite physicist) Richard Feynman were both professors at Cornell and that is one of the reasons why I chose Cornell out of every school to ED to.</p>

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<p>Great post @zephyr15 and thought it well worth bumping so the ED and RD current hs seniors can see it
{bump}</p>