Cornell Pre-Med Intro course selection

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
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<p>I've heard cornell's pre-med courses kill. I'm going to base my question under the assumption that it is harder to get As in honors courses than normal intro courses... please tell me if that is wrong.</p>

<p>I'm wondering for the pre-med route, whether I would want to have a higher GPA and do the intro courses (I will have taken 2 years of each science and calc bc, most likely with 5s on all), or challenge myself with the honors courses. I'm the sorta guy that gets incredibly bored if I'm relearning stuff I knew already... but I'm wondering if the difference in gpa between intro and honors, given the pre-med route, will trump any boredom I may suffer. If you all can share specific commentary on the comparisons below (difference in enrichment, atmosphere, average GPA, intellectual satisfaction) that'd be great :) Any advice in general would also be appreciated. Thanks! </p>

<p>chem 207/208 compared with chem 215/216</p>

<p>bio 101/102 compared with bio 105/106</p>

<p>phy 101/102 compared with phy 207/208</p>

<p>math 105/106 compared with math 111/112</p>

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<p>Also, how do AP credits work with these courses (A&S)? Can 4/5s be used to skip these courses?</p>

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<p>Wow, it's been so long since I've logged onto CC, but I can give you some advice that's worthwhile (hopefully).</p>

<p>I took AP biology and AP chemistry in high school and scored a 5 and a 4, respectively.</p>

<p>This year (as a freshman at Cornell) I took/am currently taking Chem 207-208 as well as BioG 105-106, the autotutorial version of introductory biology which is arguably referred to as the "honors sequence."</p>

<p>I can tell you firsthand that you will not be bored in either course. In fact, you'll find that the majority of students [in intro bio especially] have received 4s and 5s on their AP science exams. That being said, honors chem (215/216) is ONLY if you're REALLY interested in majoring in chemistry. While the mean grade is higher than 207 (B+ versus a B-), this doesn't necessarily mean that a better grade is guarenteed; my friends who are ridiculous when it comes to chemistry are dying right now in 216. Like you, I took AP chem in high school, and I'm really enjoying 207-208. It's not exactly hard to get a good grade either. First semester, I did a lot of supplementary practice problems in the book, went to double-0/TA/lab/professor office hours, and ultimately got an A+ in 207.</p>

<p>The amount of biology that you will learn, if you opt to re-take intro - will blow you away, in both a good way and a frustrating way. BioG 105, with the constant deadlines and long laboratory reports/unreal practicals, was definitely my hardest course first semester, but I managed to receive an A-. It's definitely doable if you put in the effort and REALLY love biology (again, it's a weed-out course for premeds). I liked the deadlines because I was constantly forced to be on top of my game, whereas it's very easy to slack off and fall dangerously behind in the lecture-based 101/102 sequence. I've also made some of my closest friends in the autotutorial course, as you're almost forced to find groups of kids with whom to study. The TAs are awesome as well, and the professor is very kind and personable.</p>

<p>I used my AP calc AB credit and took Math 112 - calc 2 - my first semester. Again, utilize all of the resources provided (double-0 classes, office hours, etc), because it is a tough course taught by TAs who probably don't speak English - my TA didn't. The 00 course for 112 saved me, and I did very well in that class as a result.</p>

<p>So bottom line: don't take the honors chem course, and between the biology courses, I would recommend autotutorial (105/106) as opposed to 101/102. If you have any math background at all (AP calc in high school, for instance), then take Math 111 at least - calculus 1.</p>

<p>Good luck with course-scheduling! I was in your shoes this time last year, and I remember what it feels like. Time flies...</p>

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<p>Thank you so much for the long and informative reply! I'll be taking chem 207-208 for sure then. </p>

<p>Do people with 4/5s on Calc BC still take 111/112 sequence or do they skip it and something else?</p>

<p>I'm interested in 105/106 now :). Are the courses incredibly hard and filled with people who specialize in bio (with entrenched readings), or will people who get 5s on the AP exam do just dandy in it?</p>

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<p>You can retake calc even if you took the AP test but you won't get any AP credits for it. Your other option is to take Math 213 (multivariable calc) which allows you to get AP credit for calc.</p>

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<p>I see. Do medical schools require us to take one year of physics or calculus? I just want to do half a semester.</p>

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<p>1 year of physics (either Phys 101-102 or Phys 207-208) is absolutely necessary. Most med schools don't require any math. Some require 1 sem of calc. Harvard Med School requires 2 sem of calc (but will accept AP credit for calc). Generally, 1 sem of calc and 1 sem of stats will be sufficient for any math requirement.</p>

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<p>Calc BC students typically take Math 112 - you'll still get 4 credits for Math 111 and you'll have been exposed to most of the concepts presented in 112 (e.g. surfaces of revolution, volumes, differentials, Taylor/MacLaurin/Power series, etc). Math 213 (calc iii) is a little too intense, as it's filled with math, chem, and physics majors. I would either take Math 112 or take all of the 8 credits for calc 1 and 2 (if you have a 4/5 on calc BC).</p>

<p>The science courses aren't especially difficult. The competition can be overwhelming at times. I, for one, had an inexperienced AP biology teacher and subsequently had little laboratory experience. My AP chem teacher was equally awful. Yes, there will be kids with 5s on APs who do, in fact, know all of the material. However, the prelims in the premed classes are geared to specifically test what is taught in lecture and the assigned readings, often with a "twist." So your grade in the class with closely correlate with the amount of time you spend learning the material and getting help when you need it. Good AP classes in high school can help, IMO, but they don't guarentee an A in Cornell's science classes, necessarily.</p>

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<p>Physics 101/102 = autotutorial, non-calc based</p>

<p>Physics 207/208 = lecture, calc based</p>

<p>Both will satisfy the premed physics requirement. I'm signed up for 101/102 next year (along with organic chem, OUCH), because I'm not a fan of calculus and physics isn't covered in as great-a-depth on the MCAT as it is in 207/208 (honestly, why suffer through CALC-based physics?!). I wouldn't worry about it too much until your sophomore or junior year.</p>

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<p>ahhh okay. thanks a bunch :) :)</p>

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<p>whats an autotutorial course?</p>

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<p>Autotutorial course is self-taught course. There are no lectures so you basically read the textbook, understand the material and then take quizes every week or so!</p>

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<p>for physics with non-cal, on exams and stuff will the teacher allow you to use calculus? cause in high school teachers just go no cal allowed -_-</p>

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<p>The exams are multiple choice so you can use calculus if you want to solve the problems. They're not going to check your work.</p>

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<p>I see. Another question, what are "double-0" hours?</p>

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<p>Ah, I'm sorry I didn't elaborate. "Double-0" classes parallel the large, introductory premed science courses, such as chem, organic chem, biology, and calculus (e.g. the "double-0" for chem 207/208 is 007/008, respectively). You can enroll in the class for 1 credit pass/fail, but this isn't necessary in order to attend the lectures or go to the specialized office hours with amazing tutors (I will be one for general chemistry next year, so come check it out!). The 00 classes themselves typically meet weekly and consist of very helpful reviews that are much SLOWER-paced than the real lecture and allows one to ask individual questions. Definitely go to 00 classes - best decision I ever made in chemistry and math. They're the secret to keeping up with the "hardcore premed" reqs and doing well on the prelims.</p>

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<p>Thank you again. This was what I was looking for. So I'm guessing there is a specialized double-0 course for bio 105/106 and math 112?</p>

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<p>do u pay for tutoring in cornell?</p>

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<p>There is no 00 course for Bio105/106. If you sign up for an autotutorial the idea is that you don't want/need any outside help. (That said, if you run into trouble in 105/106 I guess you can try to attend the 00 lectures for 101/102, but there'll be no guarantee that you're covering the same material at the same pace/at the same time. Anyway, if you anticipate wanting/needing outside help in Bio, you're not gonna want to take autotutorial).
There is a 00 course for Math 112 which I HIGHLY recommend! 112 is killer without it. You should also know that 112 is not merely a continuation of 111; 112 is a noticeably HUGE step up in difficulty and speed from 111, probably because many people take 111 to satisfy the arts requirement for one math class. By the way, there is an honors version of 112- 122- but stay far, far away unless you're a math, physics or astronomy major, which I'm assuming you aren't.</p>

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<p>Actually most people I know though 112 was pretty easy. It's basically high school calc (AB) with taylor series.</p>

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<p>I took high school calc and 112 went way beyond what I learned....<em>shrug</em></p>