<p>I'm just stunned by this news and the post that mini copied. It makes me wonder what could have been done - if anything. Clearly he had all the wisdom of youth. So very sad.</p>
<p>Read Pledged about Sororties, the pre partying that goes on is damn scary</p>
<p>How many deaths by pot smokers driving have there been, are there any statistics? Not that many, not that many deaths of any kind from just smoking a joint, not that many fights</p>
<p>No one should drive while doing drugs of any discriptionm but to think that pot smokers are creating havec on the roads is not factual</p>
<p>I didnt say I recommended people to go out and drive when they are high- in fact I didn't recommend that they smoke pot at all.</p>
<p>What I was saying that as a single factor- pot has not been shown as far as I have seen to cause death- and certainly not at a level that could be compared with alcohol related deaths</p>
<p>Of course anything that causes you to be impaired is going to negatively affect how you drive and that is going to put you at risk for an accident.
Sleeping pills, antihistamines, pain medication, a ringing phone, a crying baby- distractions are not good when you are going 60mph and are in control of a vehicle.</p>
<p>* if anyone is really interested*</p>
<p>Reading Lucifer's words is haunting...such promise lost. My heart goes out to his family.</p>
<p>Mini, this is a more recent post:</p>
[quote]
03-15-2006, 03:30 PM
lucifer11287
Just to be clear, and in case you didn't read my previous post, "normal" hazing is the kind involving booze/physical exertion (running, pushups, whatever)/mental or emotional toughness (talking trash to pledges, etc). Intelligently designed hazing is hard but keeps a solid saftey margin so as not to push anyone over the edge or anything.</p>
<p>03-16-2006, 09:22 PM #53<br>
Rileydog </p>
<p>Lucifer, you truly do scare me and only serve to reinforce my idea of who joins frats and why. Good luck to you and I hope your brothers turn out to be all that you wish them to be.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>reading the words of his friends in the guestbook is also haunting as they describe him.......how full of life he was and how friendly.</p>
<p>Another quote from lucifer11287:</p>
<p>
[quote]
I am ignorant? I can tell you, both statistically and anecdotally, that it is very rare and comparitively hard for someone to drink themselves to death. Me and my friends are all very experienced drinkers, and we all know exactly how we get when we drink too much, so we go by those signs. For those we don't know as well, we ensure that they throw up (so they don't absorb any more alcohol from their stomach) and are responsive and reasonably coherent to make sure they won't die. Given the huge number of teens who drink, and the amount that many teens drink combined with the risky drinking patterns inherent in teen drinking (chugging, taking lots of shots before you can even fully feel the first one, the list goes on and on), and the relatively small number of pure alcohol (i.e. stopped breathing) deaths compared to both the number of drinkers and the number of people who die from drinking and driving, it is clear that drinking is usually only problematic when combined with driving. Honestly, that's why I like drinking with experienced drinkers - it is MUCH harder for someone with a tolerence to drink themselves dead than it is for a drinking novice who has no idea of how to drink and also has no tolerence.</p>
<p>Don't try to intimidate me with medical facts; I know most any alcohol related fact backwards and forwards. I don't take blind risks, and I'm fully aware of the risks I take with drinking. In my mind, the benefits of drinking - the fun, the camaraderie, the burn of that first shot - vastly outweight the costs (I've paid my dues for drinking in a number of ways). I learned as much from drinking/partying during high school as I did from classes (and I took 14 APs), not to mention that while a lot of the things I learned in HS I'll never really use again (i.e. chemistry), I'll always use the skills I learned from drinking/partying (how to read a situation, a lot about people in general, etc.)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Parents, let's make a pact. Let's assume that a kid who posts self-destructive posts is a kid in trouble, not a kid who needs an argument. In hindsight, Lucifers posts seem like a huge red flag. No telling if he wouldhave heeded any advice...but he was posting his self-destructive thoughts again and again and again. What a tragic loss of a young spirited life.</p>
<p>Also, parents teach your kids to take their friends to the hospital if the friend appears unconcious.</p>
<p>Kids, if your friends appear unconcious, TAKE THEM TO THE HOSPITAL. Do not assume they will 'sleep it off' or that you know how to position them for a 'safe sleep'.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also, parents teach your kids to take their friends to the hospital if the friend appears unconcious.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually call 911..........don't take your friends anywhere if you are all drunk. Most specifically there are earlier signs to alcohol poisoning than unconscious.....</p>
<p>Good point. I modified my thread on the kid's cafe. </p>
<p>But, I have known of a half dozen instances where kids took friends to the hospital and, in doing so, saved their lives. It could be that the thought of an ambulance is too much for teens, I am not sure. </p>
<p>The important message is to tell them to TAKE ACTION.</p>
<p>The point is to get a plan before you need the trolley. Try to dispel the problems of calling a trolley.......911.</p>
<p>"Let's assume that a kid who posts self-destructive posts is a kid in trouble, not a kid who needs an argument. In hindsight, Lucifers posts seem like a huge red flag."</p>
<p>Denial of alcohol's impact, combined with heavy drinking, is a tell-tale sign of incipient alcoholism. Unfortunately, in my professional work, I deal with it all the time.</p>
<p>It has been shown in studies that this does not apply so much to college students. Heavy college drinking is not related to future alcohol problems. Much the opposite. That does not mean it does not lead to some tragic deaths.</p>
<p>False, again. (your batting average is very high.) BINGE drinking is not necessarily related to future alcoholism; heavy drinking (defined as two or more drinks per day over a period of a month) is strongly correlated. Among college binge drinkers, approximately a third become anywhere from abstainers to moderate drinkers as adults; a third heavy drinkers; and about a third alcoholics as defined by the DSM-IV. It's higher than the average for college students as a whole, but remember that roughly 20-30% of all college students are total abstainers. But among college "heavy drinkers", roughly half will become alcoholics.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, most of the standard surveys of college drinking do not ask questions related to heavy drinking, only binge. My alma mater - College #1 - does; it is roughly 30%. Combined with a cohort of binge drinkers who are not heavy drinkers who will nonetheless become alcoholics in the future, roughly 20% of the student body will at some point in their lives become alcoholics - higher for whites, males, and athletes.</p>
<p>"....the burn of that first shot".</p>
<p>The words of an addict, any addict. Oh how sad.</p>
<p>The strange thing about this whole situation is that I can look out my dorm room window and see the dorm where this happened, I know people who were involved, and I rushed that house.</p>
<p>Mini,prove it. My study by a well respected expert says "We have found no studies WHATSOEVER that show that drinking in college leads to later life alcoholism".
Your parsing of daily vs. binge drinking changes the subject as this case at hand is obviously binging. Nobody writes much about the daily moderate drinker in college. maybe a topic for another study.</p>
<p>I am thinking it would be more useful to discuss alcohol poisoning and the ways to recognize it and policies which encourage calling for medical intervention.</p>
<p>how did people find out {student's name} is lucifer?</p>
<p>Facebook and those of us who had PMd him during his time at Cornell..........memory and reading about the death we put the facts together.</p>