I’ve been fortunate enough to have been accepted to Cornell, Duke, and Brown, among other schools. I’m also fortunate that cost is an absolute non-factor amongst these schools.
Anyway, a quick background on me: I’d love to double major in CS and Applied Math with maybe an Econ minor, but the humanities are still very important to me; I’d want a school where top tech companies regularly recruit for internships; I love watching sports and playing them in informal settings; and I’d like a vibrant social atmosphere, but not one dominated by frats.
I guess I’ll assess each school individually now so you can get a sense of my pros and cons for each:
Cornell:
Pros
[] Great CS program, pretty good at applied math and econ
[] As a Tanner Dean’s Scholar, I have guaranteed funding for research
Cons
[] The weather, which is an especially salient factor since I’ve got asthma and get sick a lot
[] A bit too big for my tastes
[] Intense, cutthroat atmosphere in Engineering with everyone fighting to be above the curve (according to a grad who worked for my dad)
Duke:
Pros [ul]
[li] Probably the best econ program of the 3[/li][] Like I said, I looooovvve watching sports. So Duke basketball, obviously (as a side note, they’ve locked up 3 of the top 4 HS recruits so they might win the title next year). And Duke football was toying with the top 25 until they crashed and burned in the second half of the season.
[] Weather
[] Easy to double major
[] Especially strong alum network
Cons
[] Preponderance of rich, stuck-up fratboys
[li] Doesn’t seem to have amazing departments in CS and applied math[/li]
Brown:
Pros [list]
[] Probably the best all around academic experience. They’re great at CS, Applied Math, and alright at Econ. Because of the Open Curriculum, I’ll be able to concoct a customized academic path that’s got a healthy mix of the humanities and STEM courses. Lower competition and pressure b/c of Pass/Fail. I can drop/swap courses if I hate the profs/material because of their shopping period.
[] Providence is the chillest college town of the bunch
[] Great social scene for an Ivy. I know I’m likely to have the most fun here.
Cons
[] Brown’s image, especially in the Finance world. I want to explore the intersection of tech and finance for as long as I can, but eventually I’ll need to pick one. My dad works in finance, and he (and most of his co-workers) roll their eyes at mention of Brown. They think they’re lightweights. Maybe they’re not that well-respected in the tech circles, either?
[] The rampant liberalism. As a moderate, I wouldn’t want to be verbally attacked at every turn just because I don’t like Bernie Sanders, who in my book doesn’t understand basic economic principles (alright, I’ll stop politicizing things…but seriously, all these presidential candidates suck). I don’t like the image of batsht crazy chicks with like purple hair and dreamcatcher earrings screaming at me for being a bigot or chauvinist just because I didn’t express my thoughts in the most PC manner. I really hope I’m wrong, because if I am then I DEFINITELY go to Brown. If I’m right, I’ll probably pick Duke.
[li] Weather[/li][/ul]
Any input or additional information would be great, guys. Which best fits my academic needs? My desired social atmosphere?
Thanks in advance. Your thoughts, along with my final visits to these places, will be very influential in my ultimate choice.
Sounds like you want to go to Brown. I’d vote there then. The differences in opportunities afforded by these fine institutions is negligible. Brown actually does have pretty solid recruiting in the tech field – it’s just a smaller group of individuals. The liberalism at Brown is certainly there, but it’s not in your face. You don’t have to be involved in those discussions if you don’t want to. I was in Providence on a project for almost two years – it’s a nice city although weather definitely not as nice as North Carolina.
On Duke’s con list, though, I gotta take exception to “preponderance of rich stuck up frat boys.” I realize Duke has that reputation, but it’s a reputation from the past --Duke is extremely diverse and honestly more “nerdy” now than its ever been. Yes, there are some rich obnoxious people, but again, very very easy to avoid if you want to. You can associate with whoever you want and it won’t impact your social experience. In fact, I’d say you have to actively seek it out. If you think there are fewer rich stuck up people at Brown than Duke, then you’re sorely mistaken. Brown just has more from the Northeast, while Duke has them in larger numbers from the South, Texas, and California.
Overall, Brown has a really solid applied math program. Brown’s curriculum does have the reputation of being lightweight, but for whatever reason, doesn’t seem to impact its graduates’ ability to snatch great jobs and admittances to grad schools.
Duke is also a great choice – and I personally would choose Duke over Brown – but based on your post, if the only hangup on Brown is that it’s too liberal, I’d set that aside and just not join any political organizations in campus. It really shouldn’t impact your experience in the large scheme of things. But maybe your opinion on “fit” will change when you visit, so I encourage you to keep an open mind.
@bluedog Thanks for your comments. You’re mostly right in your assessment, but I don’t know if I’m sold on Brown… From the looks of it, I prefer Brown’s academic environment by a slim margin, but on the flip side I like Duke’s social atmosphere more. So like you said, it’ll come down to “fit” and those visits. I’ll definitely keep an open mind.
Have you been to see Brown? I thought the same thing about the ‘purple hair’. There was no more of that at Brown than at any other school…its an old stereotype from the 80s. I saw great diversity there and a TON of really preppy kids. Amazing Campus. Totally chill, and the open curriculum is fantastic.
If you’re interested in the intersection of CS and Statistics, Duke is a great place to be right now. We have tons of opportunities to get involved in data science, including Dataplus, Datafest. The math department here also seems to have a focus on high-dimensional/topological data analysis. I know that Brown has one of the best Applied Math programs in the country, but Duke Statistics is among the best Bayesian centers in the world.
@suzyQ7 I’ve briefly visited campus, but I’m going back for 3 days overnight for ADOCH. I’m also going to Blue Devil Days as well. I definitely loved the chill feeling it had, but only being there for ADOCH can really confirm if the fit is right for me or not.
@MBVLoveless Wow, I didn’t know that about Duke Statistics. Thank you! The more I’m looking into things, the more the academic gaps are getting blurred and the more it’s coming down to fit. As I similarly said above, only visiting for Blue Devil Days can help confirm whether Duke’s atmosphere better facilitates me to thrive. Also, on a more embarrassing level, the inner sports fan in me is telling me how stupid it would be to pass up being a Cameron Crazy…
You can never see if a school is a right fit just based on one campus visit, so I suggest choosing based on more tangible factors. And haha if you end up choosing to go elsewhere, you’ll miss out on the amazing experience that is tenting for tickets + all the crazie things that go down in Cameron.
Duke doesn’t have more stereotypical rich kids than either Cornell or Brown. In fact, Brown was recently named the “douchiest” school in America. I don’t give much credence to these subjective lists but take that for what it’s worth.
Also, Duke’s computer science program is small but absolutely top notch. I’ll reproduce some material from a previous post for your benefit.
These are some of the people you will be taught by:
@NerdyChica That’s quite an impressive list you’ve hit me with; I’ll admit it. As for the LinkedIn ranking, everybody with a brain knows Stanford CS > Duke CS in the industry. I’ve also looked at employment breakdowns at certain companies that I’d love to work at (Google, Facebook, Jane Street, etc.), and Brown shows up on most of those lists; Duke does not. That’s given me the overall impression that Duke CS isn’t exactly top-tier, but I’ll need to talk to the actual students and professors there before I rush to judgment.
Well, fwiw, Brown (maybe Cornell) CS has more courses on programming than Duke. Duke CS is very theoretical and there are actually not a lot of classes that require you to program extensively (besides 101, 201, 308). I don’t know a lot about CS but all the big name companies recruit here at TechConnect, and the rest/getting employed is on you.
Pardon me, but you are the one who seems a little “stuck up.” I don’t mean to be harsh, but I just think it sounds mean-spirited to judge people you don’t know. Duke’s having “stuck up frat boys???” Do you know any “frat boys” at Duke? And to stereotype the women at Brown is just unseemly. You should approach college from what you can give to it and what you can give to your own education rather than on what the college will lavish on you. Also, Duke is more ethnically diverse than Brown. Duke has 50% students of color to Brown’s 46%. Cornell’s stats are confusing, but I think they might be the most diverse. I also think you are mistaken thinking that Brown isn’t as “competitive.” Maybe it’s not cut throat, but kids only take classes they want to be in so everyone is passionately engaged in the classes they take. In a sense it makes it more academic than the others-- the students are very intellectually genuine. And who cares if the old farts your dad works with roll their eyes. Where are THEIR kids getting in. Dude, I feel sorry for you. It seems like maybe you haven’t had the chance to learn to see colleges in a more in depth way. You really need to shift the way you are looking at this if you want to really thrive, grow and get the most out of your experience. You need to do a little soul-searching and figure out what you can do to be the driving force in your own education.
I don’t know about Duke but I suspect it is less frat/brat inflected than you suspect. I do know the Brown campus and it is by no means a predominantly hippie or lightweight place. Purple-haired Bernie supporters aren’t in huge supply and there are plenty of preppy/moderate students. Admission rate this year was less than 9%.
Perhaps you are operating from outmoded stereotypes?
It looks like you are leaning towards Duke for social/sports scene and Brown for academics. Cornell doesn’t seem to rise to the level of the other two for you, other than the scholarship.
@DartDart Whoa, hold up there. As I’ve admitted, I’m working with lots of misinformation and stereotypes here, so I’m not 100% certain about lots of what I was saying; that’s part of the reason why I’m asking for advice. The “Duke frat boy” comment is somewhat derived from the past, but also from my local area, where there are tons of rich legacy kids that go to Duke for the frats and basketball more than the academics. Those numbers overall have been dwindling over the years and Duke’s slowly shedding that stereotype, but in my vacuum of an area, not much seems to be changing. The Brown women comment is just some slight exaggeration of a stereotype that I desperately hope isn’t true – just look at how I worded the statement in my post. Also, exploring the semantics of diversity (x% PoC vs y% PoC) is almost a moot point: we all know they’re diverse and have an accepting atmosphere. As for the academics, I don’t think Brown’s competitive insofar as classes aren’t curved and grades are generally inflated. You’re free to, as you said, savor the learning and have genuine intellectual curiosity, which is the main selling point to Brown for me. And it’s unfortunate that the financial sector doesn’t see much value in that, but it’s these “old farts” who will be interviewing me for my first job, so their input has to matter some. I do know that I’m not “see[ing] colleges in a more in depth way,” but that’s because there’s not a whole lot of info out there about what the places are truly like. I hope you understand where I’m coming from now.
@mamaedefamilia Yeah, I do think I’m operating with outdated stereotypes, especially with Duke. Brown – I’m not so sure. The cool thing is that for ADOCH, which is a 3 day overnight admitted students event, there’s a “political debate”, so I’ll get to scope out the political landscape there. Also, you’re right about Cornell – a current student there essentially told me the Tanner Dean’s program is a ploy and that teaching quality in his major (one of my potential ones) is so abysmal that half the kids don’t even attend class. So you could say it’s souring for me, but then again its star was never all the
I am a current Brown parent. If you get As in Econ, Applied Math and CS at Brown you will have earned them with a lot of hard work. And if you don’t earn the A, it’s a B or a C, nothing in between.
It really shouldn’t impact your experience in the large scheme of things. But maybe your opinion on “fit” will change when you visit, so I encourage you to keep an open mind.