Cornell vs. Cal vs. Harvey Mudd - Biochemistry

College Search & Selection
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<p>I have been accepted to Cornell as a Tanner Dean's Scholar for the Chemistry & Chemical Biology Major (in Arts & Sciences), UC Berkeley to Letters & Sciences as a Biochemistry & Molecular Biology major (although I plan to switch to College of Chemistry - Chemical Biology major, if I attend; I also interviewed for the Regents scholarship but didn't receive it), and Harvey Mudd as a Biology & Chemistry Joint Major (and I will hopefully receive the National Merit partial scholarship at Harvey Mudd). I am also planning to minor or double major in Mathematics.</p>

<p>My major selection factors will be prestige & quality of the program, research opportunities, and quality of life. My parents are willing & able to pay for any of these choices so money is not a big factor in my decision. Environment+location is also a factor (I live in CA; Cal is nearest me, then Mudd, and Cornell is far away.) Dorms also factor into quality of life; I have visited Cal and Mudd and visiting Cornell this month; the Mudd dorms seemed pretty nice, the Cal dorm was nice but I only visited the most-desirable one, which, since I did not get Regents (priority housing) I may not be living in; so I'd like to know from students at these schools what dorm life is like.</p>

<p>Cornell - Pros: Tanner Dean's Scholarship (the money award is minor for this scholarship, but there are extra research opportunities available, it lends prestige, etc.), well-known (both for sciences and in general), diverse, good professors (I believe)
Cons: Difficult to travel to - on the East Coast, first of all, and Ithaca is pretty isolated. Weather - I don't mind the cold all that much but it is apparently dark there a lot, and is very very cold. I'm afraid that this might also affect the sorts of activities available - I'm not really an outdoor person that much, but I do like being able to take a walk, play sports, etc. when possible. Isolation - I prefer suburban environments the most; Cornell is rural so that level of isolation might be a little much for me.</p>

<p>Berkeley - Pros: Also well known, very strong for sciences, good professors (I believe), cost (even though it's not a big factor for me, it's not something to ignore)
Cons: No Regents, so research opportunities may be more difficult to come by. Classes - I will probably be able to skip most of the entry-level classes due to AP credits, so I should be able to avoid most of the really huge ones, but since I didn't get Regents course registration even for the higher-level courses might be a problem. Huge - lack of focus on undergraduates, or so I have heard. Urban - there are people and cars everywhere, it might get a little overwhelming, although the inner campus is pretty nice, but the dorms and a lot of things aren't over there.</p>

<p>Harvey Mudd - Pros: Research should be relatively easy to come by, especially since the percentage of students in Biology/Chemistry is relatively small. Small, undergraduate only - obvious focus on all students. Environment - Suburban, which I like; location is not too close but not too far from home for me. STEM-focused school. (If I get the national merit scholarship, that will be another Pro).
Cons: Not well known, and out of what it is known for that's mostly Engineering. Small - even when you look at all the 5 C's as a whole, the facilities and professors cannot match what world research universities like Cal and Cornell offer. (If I do not get the merit aid, cost will be a bit of a con, as the $61,000 sticker price is pushing it.)</p>

<p>So, I have put a lot of time and thought into this decision (even though I just got my final decisions yesterday, I somehow envisioned that it might come down to those 3). I have been waitlisted at my first choice school so if that comes through, I'll go there, but for now I am preparing for the eventuality that it does not. I have visited all but Cornell, which I am visiting this month, but even then I do not know much about student life not having lived there myself, which is why I'm looking for advice on this board. I do plan to get involved with extracurricular things but aside from research, I think those activities will be fairly similar wherever I go.</p>

<p>So in summary, what is your opinion on the best school for me, all factors considered.</p>

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<p>Also, I am considering UCLA or UCSD (regents) as well.</p>

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<p>Net cost of each after financial aid and scholarships?</p>

<p>Be aware that applied math majors tend to have significantly better job and career prospects than biology or chemistry majors. Applied math is a relatively light major in terms of requirements (at least at Berkeley), so it should leave plenty of schedule space to take electives in biology and chemistry if you desire (or need for pre-med requirements), without necessarily having to fill in every requirement for a biology or chemistry major.</p>

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<p>Net cost of Berkeley: $33,000 for 2011-12, they haven’t released this year’s but I’ll assume around $35k. Cornell is around $60,000. Harvey Mudd is around $61,000 unless I get the scholarship which will bring it to about $50,000. So there is a pretty big difference in cost, but my parents are willing to pay for any of the three.</p>

<p>Had I gotten the Regents scholarship I might have picked Berkeley. The fact that I did not makes my decision harder.</p>

<p>Out of curiosity, what kind of jobs do you mean for applied math majors? I’m fairly sure I will stick to my biochemistry major, but just wondering.</p>

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<p>Compare the results of Berkeley’s career survey:</p>

<p><a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/AppMath.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/AppMath.stm&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/MCB.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/MCB.stm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Other majors:</p>

<p><a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Major.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/Major.stm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Thanks. I think I will stay with biochemistry, and math as a minor/second major (I plan to go to graduate school in pharmacology and then go into research in the pharmaceutical industry).</p>

<p>Should I consider UCSD regents and UCLA as well?</p>

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<p>Your biggest con to Cornell is Ithaca and the weather. This is a way overblown con of Cornell. Did you visit?</p>

<p>Ithaca is actually a great small city located in the Finger Lakes region. There are wineries galore in this region. The city has shopping, good restaurants, lots to do and a beautiful environment. The NY Times reccommended it as a place to retire.</p>

<p>The weather will not be bad for most of the fall semester,usually, and actually beautiful Sept. and Oct. People come from all over to this area during autumn. The “spring” semester is rougher. Feb. and March ( you would not be there most of Jan.) can be cold and cloudy. But there is nothing like a good snow storm or two. Many people actually missed it this year. There is skiing, skating, sledding, snowball fights, etc.</p>

<p>Cornell has a gorgeous campus in a great location. Do not eliminate it for the reasons you stated. Better to consider cost and programs/majors,etc.</p>

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<p>All of the schools you list are good; your choice basically comes down to personal preferences and costs if you consider that a factor.</p>

<p>You may want to browse the web sites of your proposed major and minor departments at each school to see if the courses and faculty research interests at any of them align more closely with subareas you are most interested in.</p>

<p>Note that at Berkeley, transferring from the College of Letters and Science to the College of Chemistry needs to be applied for. You may want to check the curricula for the Chemical Biology and Molecular and Cell Biology majors to see whether it really makes a difference in whether you will be able to take the courses you are most interested in.</p>

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<p>I know that and if my transfer was denied it would not make a huge difference. I’m not factoring that into my decision as the courses will be pretty similar between those 2 majors.</p>

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<p>I would not underestimate Mudd’s research opportunities and name recognition to those who matter. All are great options but my personal suggestion is to let $ decide this: Berkeley - Mudd - Cornell would be my order.</p>

<p>If the Mudd scholarship comes through:
Mudd - Berkeley - Cornell.</p>

<p>And Ithaca is pretty darn grey. Cold and snow not really a problem in my view (but I don’t mind either). The best week weather wise at Cornell will probably be worse than the worst weather week at Mudd in any given school year.</p>

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<p>I want to second the statement above that Mudd is well-known to those who matter. </p>

<p>There is a sense that Cornell is extremely intense, lots of “type A” people, lots of pressure.</p>

<p>I suspect that Berkeley could be very bureaucratically frustrating. And the city itself does not sound like your kind of place - it could be pretty stressful. </p>

<p>Mudd is very hard and, if I remember correctly, is lopsided in terms of male/female (more males), but I bet you’d have excellent access to research opportunities. </p>

<p>Please take everything I said with a grain of salt, but keep it in mind for your visits, & observe.</p>

<p>Besides Harvey Mudd, I also like the idea of UCSD for you.<br>
By the way, you have such wonderful choices - congratulations!</p>

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<p>Does this apply even to my major?</p>

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<p>Intensity doesn’t really bother me, nor Mudd’s ratio since the rest of the 5 C’s balance it out. I suspect all 3 will be pretty tough. Bureaucratically frustrating does worry me since I don’t have Regents.</p>

<p>Thanks to all. Does UCSD compare to any of the 3 in prestige or will Regents really be that big a deal to bring it up? Should/can I appeal the Regents decision at Cal?</p>

<p>Also, does Tanner Dean carry a lot of prestige/recognition?</p>

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<p>Remove Cornell from the choices. It’s a good school but not better than Berkeley, especially for chemistry. </p>

<p>Be careful in choosing Harvey Mudd. It sure is a great school academically. But from what I’ve personally seen it, the students’ social life is kind of dead compared to Berkeley’s.</p>

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<p>Your questions are now leading to rarefied territory, which only those immersed in these sciences can answer well. Do you know where you hope to end up? Because that might help answer which train to board. That’s where I would take it at this point: think about where you want to be in 10 years; then try to talk to whoever is there now about which institution to hook yourself up with.</p>

<p>I have heard nothing but good things about UCSD, especially for sciences, but being a UC, it may suffer from the CA budget situation - another thing to research. </p>

<p>For many, the large universities are often better when the student specializes more intensively, such as in grad school, and the smaller colleges sometimes provide a more stable foundation. But this depends on the student’s personality, too.</p>

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<p>You’re talking about Cornell UNIVERSITY, correct? Cornell has a great program despite what some of the people in this thread have said. Ithaca itself actually is a thriving college town - ranked the top college town in the US. And I like in the US and it’s not that cold and the weather is way underrated. It gets cold, but not for that long! Also, the campus is gorgeous, and it is right on the lake providing for a lot of beautiful views. Not saying you should choose it, but don’t count it out.
that being said, all three are great schools. I would severely suggest visiting all three before you make a decision! You learn a lot by just being able to talk to current students, see how friendly they are, and sit in on a class. Congratulations on your superb acceptances and accomplishments! I’m sure you would be happy at any of the three schools.</p>

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<p>This looks like a Harvey Mudd decision at the end of the day</p>

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<p>I don’t think you’ve been given any good reason to eliminate Cornell (if the weather and especially the cost don’t take it out for you). The NRC/Chronicle and USNWR graduate chemistry rankings do rate Berkeley higher, but Cornell gets good marks, too. And even if Berkeley does have a stronger chemistry faculty (which would not necessarily translate to a better undergraduate education), there are other considerations. </p>

<p>Cornell (arts & sciences) seems to be slightly more selective than Berkeley, with a more diverse student body (drawn from all over the USA, not just CA and especially the Bay area and surrounding counties). It is hard to get good data for Cornell that includes only the CAS, but I think you are likely to get smaller classes, less bureaucracy, and generally better resources at any Ivy League college than you would at any large state university (including Berkeley) … though that may not add up to $25K/year more value for you. </p>

<p>Whether the research opportunities in your presumed field are better for undergrads at one or the other (or Mudd), I don’t know … this is something you may want to investigate in the Berkeley/Cornell/Mudd forums, or on your school visits.</p>

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<p>I have a son who is a frosh at Mudd this year and he loves it. There are lots of social opportunites from parties (Mudd is reputed to have the best parties at the 5C’s) to outdoor clubs, obviously lots of science/math relted clubs but also lots of opportunities to see concerts, bands, plays and visit museums. The school offsets the cost of tickets to many of these events. </p>

<p>Don’t underestimate the amount or research and attention an undergrad gets at a school of only undergrads either. It is enormous as there is no competition from grad students and the profs want to do research and need your help and input. Employers in math and science know Mudd so name recognition there is where you need it.</p>

<p>Student ratio at Mudd has been improving over the past few years. Last year’s class was almost 45% female if I recall. Can’t seem to find the stats now as I look. Good luck with your decision, they are all great schools.</p>

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<p>Yes, Cornell University.</p>

<p>I know Berkeley is basically #1 or tied for #1 for chemistry/biochemistry in graduate schools, but does that translate to undergraduate as well? And is Harvey Mudd really that strong in biochemistry, as well? I was under the impression that engineering and maybe math/physics were the strongest at Mudd.</p>

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<p>Wait until Mudd release financial aid packages next week before making the decision.</p>