Cornell vs Caltech vs UGA

College Search & Selection
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<p>Hi, I'm a graduating HS senior who has gotten in all three. My goal is to pursue grad school in biological sciences (PhD or MD/PhD), and I'm currently having a tough time deciding between the three schools.</p>

<p>1) Cornell - I've gotten great finaid from Cornell. Its biology program is very good (or else I wouldn't apply at all). Although it isn't as good as Caltech, I suppose the difference wouldn't matter to me as an undergrad. Coming to Cornell, I have several concerns. Are Cornell bio major, a bunch of whom are pre-med competitive? Is it hard to get in a lab in ur first year and get involved in research right away in Cornell? Are there lots of students majoring in bio? Hence, would the profs pay lots of attention to undergrad or really provide helpful guidance? How feasible is it to aim for publication by the end of 1-2 yrs with a Cornell prof? Also, I heard that the workload is notorious, perhaps the worst among the Ivies, which makes me worried because I might not have the time to dedicate to research. However when compared to Caltech, I suppose it's not as bad.
2) Caltech - awesome science atmosphere. As a science nerd, this is an ideal environment to be in. However, I know the intense workload will take a toll. Research opportunities and access to world class faculties is great too via SURF. However, the finaid package isn't as great and I'm currently appealing it. The problem is, I know my GPA will be toasted in Caltech, and my major concern is whether working my %$# off in Caltech pays back with a messed up GPA, and since I'm surrounded by peers who are much more brilliant than I, I suppose the LOR from famous profs won't be as glowing since I'm not the top of the pack. Hence, I think that this raises several concerns.
3) UGA - I got a near full scholarship in an honors program with generous grants for travel study. Hence, financial matter is optimized here, plus, I get to stay near home. Research opp. is great. I've already gotten in a lab with a research topic that greatly interested me. And the workload, I suppose, won't be as bad as the above two. Hence I'll have more freedom and more time to pursue my endeavor in research. The major concern here is whether the rep of UGA will hurt me in the long run? The prof who I work with jst came to the current faculty after post-doc and was really enthusiastic in looking for undergrad students and has worked with well known graduate institutions in bio, and the research topic is very popular too. Tho he doesn't have extensive connection in his field beside his post-doc and collaborators, his research field is very promising and popular in top research schools. Working in UGA allows me more of a chance to stand out and a chance to aim for national scholarships. However, I won't have any LOR from famous profs who is leader in his/her field. Will this hurt me at all? </p>

<p>Any comments will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks</p>

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<p>I would go to cal tech. They wouldn’t admit you if you can’t handle the workload, and with a cal tech degree no one will ever think for a second about questioning your intelligence</p>

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<p>I can only comment on Cornell.
Bio is competitive. But then, bio is competitive at any school with lots of premed students. There are a number of bio-related majors, and many premed and prevet students. Undergraduate research is definitely available, though not guaranteed. It might be good to wander around the Cornell website, focus on the bio professors and check out what research they are doing. If there is anything that appeals to you, contact them with your interest in research.
You can certainly get good faculty contact and advising, but it will be up to you to make the most of it.
The workload is intense, but not impossible. As a parent, I’m thinking I’m getting my money’s worth! I have no interest in paying $56,000/yr. so my sons can party five days a week!
You have great choices–good luck with the decision. Norcalguy is a CC member who did premed at Cornell (he’s currently in med school). If you search his posts, you can probably learn a lot more.</p>

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<p>bump…anyone else?</p>

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<p>Even if CalTech will kill your GPA, you’re still significantly more likely to eventually earn a PhD coming out of CalTech than Cornell.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/nsf08311.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/nsf08311.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>It’s 35.2% of the students at CalTech vs 7.6% of the students at Cornell.</p>

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<p>Well, that’s because Caltech students are usually very self-selected on pursuing academia. Cornell, on the other hand, has its students going to professional schools and employment right away, thus only a handful get to go on and earn a PhD.</p>

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<p>Why do you have to major in biology to go to medical school? Don’t they accept math, history, or whatever majors as long as you pass their exams?</p>

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<p>^ Plz note, I’m not aiming for med school. My goal is grad school, and I would like a career in research, rather than being a doctor.</p>

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<p>

I would be very skeptical that these combined factors would result in a 400% difference. The gap between the percentages isn’t small.</p>

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<p>boomshakala is correct.</p>

<p>If I read it correctly, the chart you referenced is “baccalaureate-origin institutions in terms of number of S&E doctorates per hundred bachelor’s awarded in all fields 9 years earlier”.</p>

<p>Almost all Cal Tech baccalaureates are enrolled in S & E fields in the first place, of course their % is going to be higher! Moreover, people come to Cal Tech expressly for that purpose,and it is a select group who more uniformly have what it takes to get there. So even within that subset of undergrad science majors its % is inevitably going to be very high.</p>

<p>It is my experience that you can achieve that goal from Cornell, if you want it and are good enough. Many of my freshman dorm-mates from there went on to graduate studies, in fact last I heard two bio majors are now biology Profs at the same leading university. I actually know more bio majors from there who went on to PhDs that MDs. But of course Cornell is one of the most academically diverse schools around, and many people will have different goals. To a far greater extent than Cal Tech.</p>

<p>That same linked study says:
“The top 5 baccalaureate-origin institutions of 1997–2006 S&E doctorate recipients are: University of California Berkeley, Cornell University, University of Michigan Ann Arbor, University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, and Massachusetts Institute of Technology.”</p>

<p>So Obviously quite a few students from these schools are achieving science PhDs. Just not the same %, but not the same % want one, or are capable of getting one.</p>

<p>Assuming they really mean “bachelor’s awarded in all fields” as they say, Cornell has colleges of : Industrial and Labor Relations, Hotel Administration, Art, Architecture and Planning, how many science PhDs are likely to come out of these colleges? There are programs in Colleges of Engineering, Agriculture, Human Ecology and Arts & Sciences that generate future science phds, but only some programs at each college, and only some students within these programs, will be so oriented. How many French majors in the Arts & sciences college should go on for PhDs in STEM majors? It is a very diverse place.</p>

<p>But my classmates who were so oriented, and had what it takes, accomplished those objectives.</p>

<p>In terms of coursework, I find it utterly implausible that classwork at Cal Tech will be easier than at Cornell.</p>

<p>I would say that if you are passionate about that one objective, and think you have what it takes to survive and thrive at Cal Tech, it would obviously be an outstanding choice. Great research opportunities from the outset are probably a good deal more certain there, I would imagine. though you should check. Cornell offers a more traditional college experience in a college town. As the above numbers indicate, a large number of your classmates will share your goals and objectives, and later achieve them. But to a far greater extent many will have interests and objectives that are vastly diverse. </p>

<p>So for example my friend Paul majored in engineering, he was interested in science. But the woman he met and married there was not interested in engineering at all, she was a nutrition major in the Human Ecology college. And had no interest in a STEM PhD. Still I don’t think Paul minded that she was there too, as it turned out. Ditto my friend George, now that I think about it, who married a government major he met there who did not want a STEM PhD. Or my friend John, who married a future doctor he met there who did not want a STEM PhD.</p>

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<p>^ Cornell offers great financial aid. Thus, it has some elements of financial security. In terms of research, potential for success in research and grad school admission, I think Caltech is a fine choice, and the collaborative atmosphere is a biggie.
Since there are lots of bio majors at Cornell, I’m concerned about the competitiveness and the mentorship of the faculty in research. I have to get something out of Cornell that is worth the extra $9k investment in all 4 yrs. Namely, are undergrad students working with Cornell faculty successful in aiming for publications/ joint publications? Are bio profs attentive to undergrad students? Since a major portion of Cornell bio are pre-meds, I really dislike it. In UGA, there are lots of premeds as well, but I don’t care much about the competition, since I’m in the upper top of the pack and got endorsement/priority registration in virtually everything. However, the profs connection isn’t as good as Cornell, and I’ll have to maintain perfect/near perfect grades</p>

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<p>Not being in bio there, much less being there now, I’ve no idea.</p>

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<p>bump…anyone else?</p>

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<p>bummp…</p>

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<p>boomshaka, both Cornell and Caltech are among the best in the biological fields and generally in the sciences and engineering. Both will be very competitive and rigorous. But isn’t that what drives a student to learn more in college?</p>

<p>the main difference here is the size of the schools and location</p>

<p>Cornell has 14,000 undergraduates and Caltech about 900 undergraduates. Cornell is in upstate NY which tends to get a little cold. Caltech is in beautiful sunny Pasadena. Cornell offers a wide variety of fields to study in and frankly will allow you to be surrounded by many non-science students - something which is desired by many students.</p>

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<p>japanoko shakes his head lightly and continues to be amazed as he sees another example of the many brilliant high school students that consider not attending a great university because it might be too rigorous and might require them to study a little too much compared to other schools and might have too many fellow students that are also very brilliant…</p>

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<p>bump… anyone else?</p>

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<p>bump…</p>

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<p>If you have a lab waiting for you at UGA, and a new professor who needs LOTS of publications so that he/she can get tenure, I put your chances at getting a publication as first or second author best for UGA. Do not discount this option. Does this project interest you? </p>

<p>At Cornell, I’d advise you to get out of CAS as fast as possible, and find a lab group in CALS or HumEc. There is a lot of research going on in those divisions. Depending on your specific field of study, Cornell may be a better place for you than CalTech.</p>

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<p>

Thanx for ur opinion. Indeed, that is the reason I chose that particular lab and that particular prof., the research topic is really exciting too, tho it’s computational. I really like laboratory experience since it would prepare me well for grad school. As for research, I’m interested in molecular/mol. genetics/ cell biology.</p>