Cornell vs Claremont McKenna

College Search & Selection
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<p>I've also posted this on both forums, but I'd like some more opinions from a more general audience.</p>

<p>So, I was just taken off the waitlist at Claremont McKenna College, so now I have a bit of a dilemma: do I go with the southern californian LAC or the large northeastern university?</p>

<p>I'm looking at economics/possible finance work/possible tech business; CMC is directly focused on these types of programs, but Cornell's programs are probably of equivalent quality (and the specialization of AEM and ILR would both offer far more varied classes than could CMC and the Claremonts).</p>

<p>The weather question isn't really a massive matter for me, we can ignore that for now. </p>

<p>Aid/price is not a question whatsoever.</p>

<p>On the margin, I like the Claremont consortium's size, but I also kind of like Cornell's overall atmosphere.</p>

<p>I'm going to see if I have the chance to visit before I have to make a decision, but that's up in the air as of now.</p>

<p>Any opinions?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

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<p>I’d pick Cornell, I’ve been looking into it lately and like what I learned. If you are in CALS the population is only 4k. I find the CMC area very boring. I don’t like suburbs that much and it may just be my own familiarity. But as far as burbs go, Claremont is a little better than most, I suppose. Both really good choices, just pick what you like better. I suppose you remained on the W/L for a reason?</p>

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<p>I’m in CAS, not CALS.</p>

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<p>I think it’s going to come down to personal preference, which it should. They are equal in quality of education. Cornell will always be Cornell, but to most of the public, CMC is still an unknown, so Cornell probably has the more recognized name, but over the course of your career, CMC probably has more upside as it gets more publicity in future years.</p>

<p>I would take it to this level - which has a system of education in the area you want to study that you think you’ll do better in? One where you’re more comfortable and will do your best work. That is the school you should choose.</p>

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<p>both are fine for economics/finance. Thus choose the one with which you are more comfortable. Do not underestimate the feel or atmosphere of a college. It should be your choice and not someone elses. For example when my son went through his choices he liked Cornell’s campus but did not like the feel at CMC. Thus he crossed CMC off his list. A friend, however loved CMC.</p>

<p>Also I am in the finance field and regarding finance /economics both schools are highly rated and well known.</p>

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<p>@Glennu Sorry, but may I ask, what aspect of Cornell students make them equal or better than CMC finance students, in general? I’ve done tons of research on Ivy’s and top LACs regarding finance, because I am interested in it, but I have found nothing that stands out in Cornell. </p>

<p>OP, I already posted on your other post, but I reiterate, CMC has a better finance program, combined with access to Harvey Mudd, a top Science (and CS) focused LAC, making CMC an ideal school. Furthermore, Cornell’s so called Ivy name does next to nothing in the job market, unless you’re looking for the job of a small-time shopkeeper. CMC is AS well known as Cornell. More importantly, the smaller size at CMC makes a generally tighter alumni network, similar to all LACs, which bodes better for you in terms of both internships and long-term jobs.</p>

<p>Generally, people obsessed with public prestige, interested in Hotel Management, or did not get accepted into a top school (other than Cornell) should choose Cornell. Otherwise, you should have better choices. </p>

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<p>Go Claremont Mck. Go and don’t turn back. CMC>Cornell in terms of econ/finance, its one of the top in the country.</p>

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<p>@Woandering – two weeks ago you were posted general questions about all of the Ivies and now you are an expert?</p>

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<p>Perhaps for you. But this gets down to a LAC vs. research Uni – ignoring the weather. Some/many will thrive in a LAC. Others will HATE it and be bored. Some will grow into a major research Uni, while others grow out of a LAC.</p>

<p>So please, keep your sophomoric “research” to your personal opinion, and don’t make it as fact, such as:</p>

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</p>

<p>Sure, even if CMC is more ‘tight’, it is much, much smaller alumni network. So do your math, finance guy. Is it ‘better’ to have a small, tight network, or a large, less tight network for “both internships and long-term jobs”?</p>

<p>btw: that’ a rhetorical question, bcos of course, there are no numbers, so no answer is possible. Correct? </p>

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<p>@CT1417 Not an expert, but I have researched/listened to a lot of information regarding best colleges for someone wanting to go into the field of finance and technology business, because that is what I’m interested in. I was asking that question about the Ivies, because I wanted to find an Ivy that would fit me best (I was hung up on the whole prestige thing), but while Harvard is great for it, most of the other Ivies don’t have anything special regarding Finance. I guess it was a sort of turning point for me, to look at smaller LACs and generally unknown colleges that are equally great. </p>

<p>What I post these days, is usually popular opinion about a school/set of schools and any specific material I’ve found. I have yet to hear that Cornell is a great school for finance from more than one person, yet I’ve heard much about CMC, regarding government, economics, and finance. So not an expert, just someone who finds it ridiculous that one would say Cornell and CMC are equal in finance. Here, I’m also seeking information. If someone informs me (instead of useless criticism) of Cornell’s strengths in Finance, I would be glad to change my tune.</p>

<p>@bluebayou Fine, I used some extreme language, but I doubt anyone takes anything on CC without a grain of salt. Perhaps CMC isn’t always an ideal school, but just looking at academics and the OP’s area of interest, it rates better than Cornell. </p>

<p>Regarding alumni network, small network, but also a small school. The entire world is a “large, less tight network” but no stranger will be offering you jobs. Again, I’m expecting everyone to take my comments with a grain of salt, especially if I say I’m a Sophomore. </p>

<p>Regarding the old LAC vs University fit question, the OP has mentioned he liked the Consortium size, despite also liking the atmosphere at Cornell. I was simply adding another argument to the Consortium side, to help him make a decision.</p>

<p>I will most certainly NOT keep my opinions to myself. I will say anything I think helpful to the OP. Of course, you may have your opinions, too. However, correct me if I’m wrong, but none of what you said has helped the OP in any way. If you’re going to go against my ideas, stop writing rhetorical questions and either prove me wrong with stats or a story, or show your side of the argument with a logical flow of ideas. I also resent your calling my ideas “Sophomoric opinions.” Sure, I may not have done as much research as the average CCer, but I’ve done plenty, and I have info to share that no one has mentioned so far in this thread. </p>

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<p>Sorry, I meant CAS 4,100 or so undergrads. </p>

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<p>Unfortunately, it’s hard to compare the quality of undergraduate econ programs at two such different institutions. For what it’s worth, US News ranks Cornell’s graduate econ program #18. The NRC ranks it #18-#32 for econ research and #20-#28 for “S-Rank” (“criteria that scholars say are most important”). I would be wondering whether Cornell delivers to undergraduates at least as much quality as those numbers suggest. See if you can find enrollment sizes for the econ (and other) classes you care about most. See if you can identify the instructor names, then look up their credentials. Compare this information to what you can find for Claremont McKenna. This would be a fairly tedious process, but as far as I can tell it’s just about the only way you can compare the quality of two undergraduate departments, unless you can find good data on post-graduate outcomes of econ majors (employment, graduate school admissions, etc.) Even if you can find reasonably extensive outcomes data, it probably won’t account for the qualifications of the students being tracked. One might prefer a program in which most classes are small and are taught by well-qualified professors (not grad students). Others prefer the broader course selection that research universities offer. </p>

<p>In other words, the evidence probably won’t justify sweeping conclusions that one school is better than the other, except perhaps with respect to specific, easily assessable criteria that you happen to care about.</p>

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<p>My comments are on OPs identical thread on the Cornell subforum, but just a few points:

  • the relevant faculty is not limited to Cornell’s CAS economics department. There are offerings that may be of interest in several of its colleges, most obviously (but not only) the Dyson school.
  • Most lower level econ/finance courses there will be lecture format, taught by by professors, Grad students are most usually involved in leading breakout recitation sections to go over homework, etc., in the larger of these courses. Not as primary instructors of the courses. For what they do, I personally found them to be fine.
  • On another thread, a Claremont student acknowledged that most econ/finance courses there will also be lecture format. It is an outsizedly popular area of study there. You can decide if you care how many other people are sitting there with you while you listen to the lecture. There will be fewer at Claremont. The classes will be much smaller at Claremont, across the board. But there will be fewer of them. </p>
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<p>To add to @monydad’s post….</p>

<p>The A&S and ILR Econ departments merged two or three years ago. ILR offers a variety of Econ classes.</p>

<p>I took five Econ classes at Cornell and all were taught by professors. Granted, this was a while ago…</p>

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<p>Economics programs and Finance programs are usually fairly different. While most Econ programs cover some basic Finance, it doesn’t go as in depth. Again, Cornell has no significant Finance program.</p>

<p>Another idea: Many economists are “researchers.” They’re academia who are trying to advance this field. Whereas, most finance majors are looking at a job in public accounting or corporate finance. Especially with the OP’s interest in tech business, I believe the OP is looking more for a business skill rather than research. Therefore, you could compare Cornell’s specific professors who teach Finance to CMC’s, but again, the overall program at CMC at least looks much better on the face of it. I don’t think anyone can make a perfect response to this thread (and indeed many others) unless they know every professor involved and the OP him/herself. </p>

<p>All of us can keep saying, it’s up to the OP to see his/her fit for the LAC size or University size, so assuming indifference, I’m talking completely about the academic resources of each. I think we all know that both CMC and Cornell have amazing econ programs, and I’ve already supported my belief that CMC has a better finance program. With regards to tech, I just wanted to emphasize Harvey Mudd’s high profile in the sciences and computer science, specifically. At CMC you do get a chance to take courses at Harvey Mudd, so this is a big plus. </p>

<p>OP, if you do like Cornell’s feel much better than CMC, then by all means go to Cornell. @monydad raises a few good points, but those are also mostly about fit. Like I said, I’m also interested in finance and tech business. My current dream school is CMC, and I hope to double major in Econ-Accounting and CS. Your interests just seemed so similar to mine, so I posted some of the reasons I like CMC. The only thing I don’t like is the hot weather, but those are environmental preferences which aren’t involved in this thread. I just don’t see what’s great about Cornell’s finance courses, but again, your choice. Good luck with choosing.</p>

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<p>I second Claremont Mckenna. Cornell’s hardly a shabby choice of a university, but CMC is an elite liberal arts college with a huge focus on economics and finance, as well as a peer group that’s also highly-focused on these things. </p>

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<p>“Again, Cornell has no significant Finance program.”</p>

<p>???
I don ;t know “program” means, per se, but I just took a quick glace at one page of Dyson offerings.and I see:
AEM 3500: Investments in the Global Economy (F) (replaces AEM 4200)</p>

<p>AEM 4000: Practitioner’s Overview of Securities Markets and Investment Banking (F, S)</p>

<p>AEM 4010 : Commercial Bank Management (F)</p>

<p>AEM 4050: Agricultural Finance (S)</p>

<p>AEM 4060: Risk Simulation and Optimization (S)</p>

<p>AEM 4210: Derivatives and Risk Management (S)</p>

<p>AEM 4230: Contemporary Topics in Applied Finance (F)</p>

<p>AEM 4260: Fixed Income Securities (F)</p>

<p>AEM 4280: Valuation of Capital Investment (F)</p>

<p>AEM 4290: International Finance (F)</p>

<p>AEM 4570: Advanced Corporate Finance (F)</p>

<p>AEM 4620: Technology and Financial Markets (F)</p>

<p>AEM 4940: Financial Institutions (S)</p>

<p>that’s besides the full range of accounting courses, including financial accounting of course.</p>

<p>Then there’s this:
<a href=“https://www.hotelschool.cornell.edu/academics/ugrad/concentrations/finance.html”>https://www.hotelschool.cornell.edu/academics/ugrad/concentrations/finance.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I’m not sure but i imagine qualified people may be able to take some of these courses too, you’d have to check on that though:
<a href=“Departments & Fields of Study: Johnson Graduate School of Management| - Cornell University - Acalog ACMS™”>Departments & Fields of Study: Johnson Graduate School of Management| - Cornell University - Acalog ACMS™;
I see quite lot relevant here too, anything that says “banks”, “monteray, finance” is relevant:
<a href=“http://www.economics.cornell.edu/courses”>http://www.economics.cornell.edu/courses&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I imagine there’s more. I didn’t look more than a few minutes.</p>

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<p>This comment was so ridiculous I actually logged in for the first time in what seems like a year or two just to comment. OP, don’t get brainwashed by this CMC ■■■■■. Even in its own state of California, CMC is virtually an unknown school. Nationally and especially internationally, Cornell and CMC aren’t even in the same league in terms of name recognition and prestige. </p>

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<p>Name recognition and prestige are a little different. Cornell has both. CMC (like nearly all LACs) does not have nearly the same name recognition. Among those who do know it, it is very respected.</p>

<p>Here is a list of departments with links to courses available to CMC students for Fall, 2014:
<a href=“Portal”>https://portal.claremontmckenna.edu/ICS/Course_Schedule&lt;/a&gt;
Class sizes are listed in column 4 of the econ department course listing.
I count 90 econ courses with at least 1 student registered, and an average enrollment of 21 students. Only one course has an enrollment limit of more than 50 students. Many have limits of 20 students or less. Note: The econ course listing is for the whole Claremont consortium, not just CMC.</p>

<p>You can look up CMC faculty credentials here:
<a href=“Faculty Directory | Claremont McKenna College”>http://www.claremontmckenna.edu/academic/faculty/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I’d pick Cornell, but I’m biased towards research universities.</p>