Hello everyone. I hate making treads like this because for the longest time I thought they were unnecessary because both options are great so just pick one. However, I was wrong, and I need help.
I was accepted to Cornell (ILR) and Penn (CAS History) and I don’t know where to go. For the longest time (since Junior year in HS) I was so passionate about Penn - the campus, the “social ivy” idea (but Cornell has that too of course), the alum (Angela Lee Duckworth was hugely inspiring to my psychology research), and the program (Penn in Washington, etc.). But I slowly became more and more committed to Cornell. The campus is great, ILR is amazing and gives me options, it’s in the country (I’m from the country so I like country more than HUGE cities), etc. etc. I could go on forever.
I’m eventually going to go to Law School. I’m sure both of these colleges will give me great options for law schools and prepare me for the LSAT. I just want some people’s thoughts on their perceptions of the schools. For example, I’ve always heard that everyone not Wharton at Penn feels like a second class citizen. I’m currently at the University of Texas at Austin and I’ve had a very unhappy time here so ultimately I want the best fit for me. Can you all help tell me what each student body, atmosphere is like. (Please no generic “there’s 136487325982756 clubs you’ll find something.” I know, and I did even at UT, but I want to feel a part of the larger community where as UT was very subgroup oriented.)
Thank you in advance!
Bryce
" I’ve always heard that everyone not Wharton at Penn feels like a second class citizen"
I think that how you feel is up to you. However, you will be all mixed in and experiencing college with students from all four schools. The is more of a “Penn feeling” than a by school feeling. Many students I know in CAS and SEAS could have been in Wharton but chose not to be, and many of them think that their programs are significantly more challenging than the Wharton majors. I don’t think this is an issue.
Both schools will prepare you well.
You can also sub matriculate into Penn’s Law school. Not sure whether Cornell allows that, but I would check.
@Brycifer The comment about people who are not in Wharton feeling like second class citizens is not true at all. All students have access to the same resources whether it is research or recruiting for jobs and also can take classes in any of the undergraduate schools including some graduate schools too. For example you can take classes at Penn law as a ugrad and even Submatriculants at Penn Law. Also there is much more of university feeling and consciousness than a specific school feeling. Usually this is a stereotype perpetuated by people not familiar with Penn who have an agenda to promote, don’t buy into it. You ll not hear a Penn person saying this. It would be like saying that Cornell undergrads feel like second class citizens relative to the other Ivy League schools, which again is a stereotype and not true.
Now for you specific interests I think Penn has the slight edge in the sense that the kind of research the Angela Duckwotth does cannot easily be found at Cornell she is truly amazing. Also Penn has other specialized programs for research and job opportunities that are hard to fin me anywhere else. Also another practical consideration is that Cornell has more grade inflation than Penn and law schools really care about GPA a lot. Also the smaller size of the school will prob translate to more individualized mentorship for pre-law. Plus as I said you can take law classes at Penn as an undergrad and even Submatriculants as a law student while still in undergrad.
At the end of the day tho for is the most important aspect. If you feel you won’t be happy at Penn and Cornell fits you way more then got to Cornell.
Do you mean more grade deflation at Cornell compared to Penn?
You wrote inflation.
@Mothersv I think @Penn95 did mean deflation.
Lifestyle is totally different. My son loves the campus and he is in ILR. Many go to law school from ILR, great preparation. Philly is not the nicest city, but I do think the grads I have interviewed from Penn were amazing (and not from Wharton). I heard engineers at Penn take Wharon classes to get easy "A"s compared to Penn engineering. :-). There are similar stereotypes people write about different colleges in Cornell. Ignore that stuff and pick the one that feels right for you. Both are great, lucky to have the choice.
@blevine How would you describe the lifestyle of Cornell? I’m coming from the University of Texas at Austin, and Austin is known for having many homeless people and “weirdos” on campus. In fact a student was murdered by a homeless man this year. It’s not like I’m terrified of the homeless, I just don’t want to live in that environment again. That’s probably my biggest issue with Penn - location. So can you tell me how Cornell/Ithaca is?Thank you!!
I did residency training at Penn and the West Philly area is not the best.Definitely a lot of crime.However that was more than 15 years ago.
I know that security is much better now.
Philadelphia is a great city and both my kids were born there but for my son I preferred the college town feel of Cornell.
@Mothersv it is indeed much better now but still of course not the safest place in the world hahah. But if you don’t go out of your way to be reckless and use common sense there is no problem at all.
@mothersv Thank you for your insight! I think you’ve made the decision infinitely easier for me.
Penn’s campus is very safe. Even the women feel safe. There are some minor crimes like stolen bikes or iPhones from time to time, but there are so many police and cameras on campus that you have to be an idiot to try to commit a crime there. You won’t have any problem. I would not walk 10 blocks west of campus at 3am, but if you have any common sense, you will be fine.
Ithaca has homeless too. Just walk around the commons and you’ll find they. They have aging hippies who came in the day and stayed. But so does Harvard.
Penn’s setting might be a bit like UChicago’s – if you are foolish and go looking for trouble, you are in a large city and you can find it. But if you avoid doing things like getting wasted and walking off-campus at 2:00am by yourself, you’ll be fine.
Common sense and the buddy system go a long way.
You won’t be the idiot making noise at 4:00am. So you very likely have nothing to worry about.
But if you wanted to compare the non-crime-related aspects of city vs. rural… and rural still wins… then Cornell is the play.
Both are outstanding. Congrats!
I have 2 girls who went to Cornell, the younger one is about to graduate this year. We live in NYC, so my kids appreciated spending 4 years at a beautiful campus like Cornell. They liked the fact that Ithaca was a college town and their life revolved around Cornell instead of going out of campus. I think students from urban schools, like Columbia, NYU and Penn, may have more of life outside of school. Ithaca has homeless people just like many cities, but not around too many around Collegetown or the Common where most students hang out. Over 9 years span my kids were in Ithaca I haven’t heard of students being attacked by “townies.” There is a very good relationship between town and gown.
My younger daughter is pre-law at CAS. She was accepted to many t14 schools, but is taking some time off for an internship at an US Attorney’s office. I think various internship she has had through Cornell helped her in getting the internship.
Both Penn and Cornell are great schools. It comes down to fit. Would you be happier at a more urban or rural place? One thing to keep in mind is it is more expensive to go to an urban school.
@Brycifer Cornell had the most scenic campus I saw in our travels around the northeast, visited many schools. My son hikes on campus and there are many places near campus for outdoor activity.
Upstate NY is a bit sketchy, Ithaca has it’s urban problems, but the campus is great and by comparison to Philly a much more relaxed and relatively rural look and feel. Just think, your professors are living in really nice homes a few minutes drive from work, vs in Philly they likely have long stressful commutes by comparison. How might that impact their demeanor ?
I think those who love the outdoors and want their non-academic life to center on campus would love Cornell. Those who prefer to go off campus and explore urban activities, Philly is certainly closer to that. Having lived in the northeast most of my life, I think Philly is the least desirable of the major northeaster/mid atlantic cities. I might have a tougher time deciding between DC/Ithaca or Boston/Ithaca but less so Philly/Ithaca.
My S1 transferred to Cornell from school in NYC. His comment was “I would love to live in
NYC when I have a job, with time and money to explore the city”. He seems happier as a student
in a scenic setting where the day to day stress is academic, not overcrowded subways, dirty streets, homeless on the sidewalk outside your door. Philly differs from NYC, less crowded but also
less to offer, as a place to live. Career wise there are advantages to being in a more central location
like Philly, closer to interview for internships or attend other off campus activities. Ithaca is very remote.
Academically I don’t think there is a wrong choice, comparing the schools,
but in your case ILR vs being a history major,
seems a much better route to standout when you graduate.
@blevine Thank you so much for giving me the example of your son also! I’ve decided to go to Cornell.
@Brycifer Congratulations! I recently visited Cornell and it was beautiful and such a lively place.