Cornell vs Tufts (vs UMich vs UCB vs UCLA)

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hey guys,</p>

<p>I'm an international student who was just accepted to the above colleges without financial aid. My family still might be able to fund me, but they see going to an Ivy League university as the only thing that justifies the cost. The problem is, the curriculum at Tufts is currently a lot more appealing to me than Cornell's (specifically, ties with the School of the Museum of Fine Arts (SMFA) and the Comm and Media Studies (CMS) minor), so I can't make peace with the decision, especially since I also have the option of staying in my own country.</p>

<p>In addition, I'm currently applying for a scholarship that only accepts those who are studying mass comm./media studies in university and another which only accepts arts-specific degrees (creative writing in my case), but they will only offer them in June. I've been accepted into mostly English majors though I'd like to keep my options open with regards to those, but it's not possible for every option. </p>

<p>I'm also very interested in taking art classes (particularly in graphic design) as a non-major, which is a major reason why Tufts is above Cornell for me.</p>

<p>This is a brief list of pros and cons I have for each college. If anyone thinks that I'm dead wrong for some of these or mixing up my priorities, it would be great if you could comment!</p>

<p>Cornell (CAS, English major)
Pros: English program, Performing and Media Arts program, Ivy prestige
Cons: Comm major is in another college and cannot be taken with majors from another college, art school is also in another college and doesn't offer design courses as far as I know</p>

<p>Tufts (CAS, English major)
Pros: English program, ties with School of the Museum of Fine Arts (with design courses) and open to non-majors, CMS minor
Cons: Not sure if I can convince scholarship agency that a minor will provide a good enough education in media, though I do have an email from the director of that program, not an Ivy</p>

<p>UMich (LSA, Residential College, mass comm major)
Pros: Creative writing major (for scholarship), mass comm major (for scholarship), RC program is cool and offers some arts practicum courses
Cons: School of Art and Design is very inaccessible to non-majors, school is quite under my parents' radar and also not an Ivy</p>

<p>UCB (English major)
Pros: Media studies major (for scholarship), my father absolutely loves California for some reason and would personally go to UCB himself, so this not being an Ivy does not apply
Cons: Creative writing minor only, everyone tells me not to go to the UCs because of financial troubles but my dad refuses to believe they exists</p>

<p>UCLA (English major)
Pros: Mass comm major (for scholarship), film school (in which I have a vague interest)
Cons: Everyone tells me not to go to the UCs because of financial troubles but my dad refuses to believe they exist, less prestige than UCB, very big</p>

<p>Cost doesn't matter as much, I think, since the one my parents are most keen on is the most expensive one <_< Location isn't as important to me either, but if anyone has anything to say about that (especially since I'm an international student), that would be great too.</p>

<p>Thanks so much!</p>

2

<p>So your dad likes the Ivies and the UCs. I like your dad… ;)</p>

<p>The UCs, especially Cal and UCLA, don’t have the financial crunch that the other UCs might have because they both have a lot of non-resident types – Int’ls, especially, as yourself, who pay full tuition, which helps both u’s directly fund undergraduate teaching. </p>

<p>My advice is to visit them if you can. If you didn’t apply to the CA campuses because of an attraction to the CA lifestyle, and are only keeping them on your list because of your dad, then maybe try stealthily to remove them from your list and concentrate on the others.</p>

3

<p>Oh, really? I’ve actually heard that for the UCs, they deliberately make their students stay longer so they can pay more.</p>

<p>I don’t have a specific attraction towards the CA lifestyle (though I didn’t find out that much about it since I wasn’t considering them too seriously; I got rejected from my first choices) but again, I’m pretty open in terms of location. I like the idea of a college town, but I also feel like I should be stepping out of my comfort zone, if that makes any sense.</p>

<p>Thanks so much!</p>

4

<p>augustday, the UCs, particularly the Cal and UCLA, are doing fine.There is no way the state will allow its top public universities to falter. </p>

<p>And I am not sure who told you that Michigan’s College of Art and Design is inaccessible to majors. The College of Art and Design offers a minor to eligible students. </p>

<p>[Minor</a> in Art & Design](<a href=“http://art-design.umich.edu/programs/undergraduate/minor]Minor”>http://art-design.umich.edu/programs/undergraduate/minor)</p>

5

<p>The Minor in Art & Design isn’t available to students in LSA, which is the college I got accepted to ><</p>

<p>Do you know how possible is it for non-majors and minors to take classes there?</p>

6

<p>You learn new things everyday! ;)</p>

<p>Unfortunately, I do not think you can take classes in the School of Art & Design. But, there is a double major option, but it requires 150 credits (5 years) to graduate. </p>

<p>[Joint</a> Degrees | LSA Students | University of Michigan](<a href=“http://www.lsa.umich.edu/students/academicsrequirements/lsadegreesrequirements/jointdegrees/artdesignjointdegreeprograminliberalartsandartdesign_ci]Joint”>http://www.lsa.umich.edu/students/academicsrequirements/lsadegreesrequirements/jointdegrees/artdesignjointdegreeprograminliberalartsandartdesign_ci)</p>

7

<p>

</p>

<p>No, that’s more of a private-u phenomenon. Don’t allow as many AP’s. Make those who transfer in retake classes. UC is pretty liberal wrt AP college-credits. One can use them to graduate early as social-science and humanities majors do, or use them as engineering students do to bypass breadth courses to enable them to take more engineering classes. (I don’t know if the first applies to you.) </p>

<p>Anyway, I didn’t see evidence of your being wanting to experience CA, eg, the weather, etc. Just write both off.</p>

8

<p>Looks like your decision comes down to Cornell and Tufts.</p>

9

<p>Hm, maybe ._. UMich is still a pretty strong contender, though, depending on whether people from outside the major can still take Art & Design courses. (Incidentally, my dad also thinks UMich is a pretty good school. It’s just that Tufts is ranked the lowest out of all of them on the Times QS rankings, and I can’t really explain to him why rankings can’t always be trusted…)</p>

10

<p>Don’t choose your school based on rankings. Choose the school
whose programs and curricula most appeal to you.</p>

<p>But since your dad is concerned about rankings, here are
some other US ones besides the oft-quoted US News…</p>

<p>Forbes 2013:
Tufts#32 overall (#15 universities)
UCLA #45
UCB #50
Cornell #51
UMich #57</p>

<p>Parchment Student Choice Rankings 2013:
Cornell #22
Tufts #23
UCB #26
UCLA #39
UMich #44</p>

<p>PayScale College Salary Report 2012-2013:
UCB #31
Tufts #34
Cornell #34
UCLA #89
UMich #188</p>

<p>US News High School Counselor Rankings 2013:
Cornell #11
UCB #17
Tufts #22
UCLA #22
UMich #29</p>

<p>I believe Tufts “ranking” in the wonderful Fiske Guide puts it near or
at the top for academics and quality of life. </p>

<p>So you see, splitting hairs when it comes to broad rankings!</p>

11

<p>“It’s just that Tufts is ranked the lowest out of all of them on the Times QS rankings, and I can’t really explain to him why rankings can’t always be trusted…)”</p>

<p>Just show him the rankings listed above. It should prove to him that, “rankings cannot always be trusted.”</p>

12

<p>Hi! Sorry for not replying; I typed one out but my computer crashed and didn’t send it ><</p>

<p>Thanks so much guys! I showed my dad those and it’s proved to be a good springboard for discussion. I’m waiting on the scholarship agencies to get back to me on which of these courses would be suitable, too.</p>

<p>Does anyone know anything about the SMFA at Tufts, and whether it’s worth it to take classes from there? That’s my main draw towards Tufts right now, along with the CMS minor.</p>

13

<p>Payscale is garbage; we’ve discussed this before.</p>

14

<p>Ah, I see. What rankings aren’t garbage, though? I’ve heard a lot of views from a lot of people about several ^^"</p>

15

<p>august </p>

<p>IMO, one can get an excellent undergraduate education at any of the schools you’ve listed. Rankings are only one man’s opinion. At best, they are a reflection of the a schools reputation. For me – if a list ‘feels right’ for the schools I know, I assume (subject to verification) that it’s probably close for schools I don’t know.</p>

<p>Personally, I like USNWR (but don’t love it) – it mostly feels right (though there are biases in their system). Forbes seems weird to me, Example – Washington & Lee ranked higher than Penn, Cal Tech, Brown, Northwestern, Duke, Tufts, Vanderbilt, Dartmouth, UVa, Cornell, etc. seems just silly (No knock on W&L – good school, just not in the same tier as the others.)</p>

<p>Bottom line – on a National basis in the US. Cornell probably has a marginally better reputation than the others, followed closely by Michigan, UCB. Tufts is an excellent school and certainly in the same class for those who know it, but some mistakenly consider it to be a bit of a regional school. (which probably fits into your Father’s thinking – he’s not alone, btw). I honestly don’t know how Tufts vs Cornell is viewed internationally, if you’re going to return to your country after Graduation. </p>

<p>In your situation – one can easily justify Tufts as a first choice based on fit and curriculum. However, if your family will only support an Ivy, you won’t go wrong with Cornell.</p>

16

<p>Don’t know if OP has made his/ her choice, but here are 2 more
“rankings” according to highest SAT scores (accepted or incoming?)
in descending order. To consider if you believe this measures quality/
intelligence of student body?</p>

<p>Cornell, UCB, UCLA, and U Mich noticeably absent from both.</p>

<p>IPEDS (from CAPPEX site):
Caltech, H, P, Y, UChicago, H Mudd, MIT, Pomona, Columbia, Stanford, Olin, N’western, UPenn, Tufts, Vandy, Amherst, Dartmouth, Swat, Rice, Duke, Brown, Reed, Bowdoin, Haverford, Vassar, Carleton, Wash and Lee, Hamilton, Emory, Middlebury, JHU, CMU, Wesleyan, Oberlin, Wellesley, USC, Scripps, Jewish Theological, Barnard, Macalester </p>

<p>BUSINESS INSIDER, 4/1/13:
1 Caltech, 2 H, 2 Y, 2 P, 5 UChicago, 6 WashU, 7 MIT, 8 Columbia, 8 Stanford, 8 H Mudd, 11 Vandy, 12 Dartmouth, 13 Duke, 13 Northwestern, 15 Swat, 15 Pomona, 17 UPenn, 18 Rice, 18 Tufts, 20 Williams, 21 Brown, 21 Amherst, 23 Bowdoin, 24 Carleton, 25 Haverford, 15 UND</p>

17

<p>Cornell is certainly seen as more prestigious than Tufts on the int’l stage, but both rank below the others. </p>

<p>Overall, the prestige of the school internationally is as follows</p>

<p>UCB
UCLA
UMich
Cornell
Tufts</p>

18

<p>Tufts is a **much **smaller university than the others on the list (about 5,000 undergrads) and it does not have as much name recognition as the others. It offers a very different environment than anything else on your list - sort of a cross between a university and a LAC. This explains why Tufts has more flexibility in their programs.
If you had been able to visit these schools you would have a better idea of how to choose among them.
Tufts is an excellent school, but I wouldn’t turn down Cornell to go there.</p>