<p>Which one would you attend? Which is better?
Environment
Academics
Political
Campus Life
Workload</p>
<p>Which is better? Which has more recognition if you want to get a job?</p>
<p>Which one would you attend? Cornell, obviously
Which is better? My OPINION says Cornell
Environment - again, CU
Academics - I've heard iffy things about UCB's undergraduate academic experience.
Political - UCB, they seem to have a very politcal campus
Campus Life - Cornell - very vibrant campus with dozens of things going on every night
Workload - I've heard tough things about both. </p>
<p>Which is better? Which ever one you feel is a better fit for you. </p>
<p>Which has more recognition if you want to get a job? Probably UCB on West Coast and Cornell on the East, though both share a fair amount of reputation on both coasts and internationally as well.</p>
<p>What will your major be?</p>
<p>undergraduate: Cornell</p>
<p>graduate: UC Berkeley</p>
<p>If i was instate CA, i would likely attend UC Berkeley for undergraduate if i did not recieve generous financial aid from Cornell, as Berkeley is a great deal for instate residents. Both are excellent institutions.</p>
<p>On the Times Higher Education supplement, Berkeley is eighth in the world. Cornell is fifthteenth. And that supplement is like official. I want to study lots of things as an undergraduate, and Cornell would be better for that, I know. But the rankings say?.?.?</p>
<p>I wouldn't be basing any part of your decision on a ranking that most people have never even heard that uses who knows what as its criteria. Most rankings, or general consensus, would view Cornell as better than Cal/Berkeley for undergrad. Cost and logistics, those are legitamite considerations; a ranking that 90% of the people, even on CC, have never heard of, not so much.</p>
<p>yeah, dont worry about the rankings. Some schools change dramatically from one year to the next, yet has the school gotten that much better? Use it maybe for a rough reference, but not for counting the difference between a school that's 8th and 15th. </p>
<p>Overall, I'd say go with Cornell unless there's an obvious fit issue or UCB is substantially cheaper (like $3,500 a year vs. $45,000)</p>
<p>Other than engineering and computer, what else is Berkeley better at? what about biomed? premed? journalism? Those are what I'm interested in.</p>
<p>I would say cornell for undergrad and berkeley for grad!!!!
Those are two outstanding universities but very different apart!!!I've never been to Cornell but i went to Berkeley in 2002 when i was visiting frisco and i really enjoyied there.. it's wierd but full of bright professors and students.</p>
<p>cornell will probably be able to provide you with more resources given such high expenditure per student compared to uc berkeley</p>
<p>ridiculous...the schools are very comparable across the board in all departments. Academics are equal in my opinion (and I know both schools very well). Berkeley social life beats Cornell hands down. There are about fifty million more cultural and social opportunities in the bay area than there are in Ithaca. If Cornell was in NY city, there would be an argument, but it's not. Cornell does have a more cohesive campus atmosphere, but it's very different from Berkeley. At Cornell, the social scene revolves around (a) frats and (b) college town. At Berkeley, the social scene revolves around the city itself and San Francisco. Also, the types of students who attend the schools are very different. Both are sharp as tacks and very smart, I suppose it's something that has to be experienced (having grown up in the bay area, but gone to Cornell).</p>
<p>I personally like Cal's more urban environment. I loved Cornell and it's a beautiful campus, but I found myself wanting more out of Ithaca and the surrounding area. New York and Boston (Toronto, Montreal etc.) are accesible, but a bit of a drive (4 or 5 hours to NYC). The weather was bad, but not so bad that it was a deciding factor.</p>
<p>I hope this helps.</p>
<p>Cheers,
CUgrad</p>
<p>
[quote]
Which one would you attend? Which is better?
Environment
Academics
Political
Campus Life
Workload
[/quote]
</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Which one would you attend?
I attend UC Berkeley so I am biased, but back when I was applying, I would have attended Cornell.</p></li>
<li><p>Which is better?
This question is too all-encompassing. Both schools have their strengths and weaknesses, and some people like one better while others like the other better.</p></li>
<li><p>Environment?
I would say Berkeley is better, but I'll give you both sides. Berkeley's city is very vibrant and diverse. There are tons of things to do on/off campus, and great food too! Students also visit San Francisco often, which is nearby. The weather at Berkeley is also a lot nicer. Cornell, in comparison, is pretty isolated and the weather is harsh (lots of snow). The downside to Berkeley is that there is more crime (bike-theft, in particular), it's a little dirtier (hey that's urban for ya), and my personal opinion (one that many people share) is that Cornell has a prettier campus.</p></li>
<li><p>Academics?
This really depends on what you study. 35 of 36 of Berkeley's departments were ranked top 10 by the NRC (#1 university for top ranked departments...I believe Harvard came in 3rd at 26, for comparison), so Berkeley's departments are strong across the board. Of course, this mostly refers to grad programs, and you have to consider how much of this quality leaks down to undergrad, and my response is: to an extent. Cornell is also pretty strong across the board, with noticible strengths in engineering, agriculture, etc. I'd say you can't go wrong with both universities, in all honesty. I'd like to add one more thing: it's tougher to switch majors / colleges at UC Berkeley than at Cornell, so something to watch out for.</p></li>
<li><p>Political?
What do you mean by this? UC Berkeley's campus is probably more politically involved. That could be a good thing or a bad thing. (some people don't like the occasional protest...I never understood why)</p></li>
<li><p>Campus Life?
This was covered a bit in my response to environment. But like I said, Berkeley is more urban and close to San Francisco, so there is probably more to do. It also boasts over 600 clubs, I believe, so there are plenty of ways to get involved. One noticible difference I observed is that Berkeley is low on Greek (10% of the undergrad population) while Cornell's campus life focuses a lot more on the Greek system. Sometimes it can be hard to find parties at Berkeley, and alcohol seems to run more rampant at Cornell. Again, this depends on your personal preference.</p></li>
<li><p>Workload?
Again, this depends on what you study. At UC Berkeley, some majors are easier than others, and workload varies. At Cornell, most people seem to have a hefty workload. General rule of thumb: if you are majoring in the sciences, be prepared for a lot of work at either institutions.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Hope this helps. :)</p>
<p>A few more comments:</p>
<p>
[quote]
On the Times Higher Education supplement, Berkeley is eighth in the world. Cornell is fifthteenth. And that supplement is like official. I want to study lots of things as an undergraduate, and Cornell would be better for that, I know. But the rankings say?.?.?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There are many different rankings, each measuring different criteria. The THES rankings focuses on graduate programs and research (that's why you don't see LACs and Dartmouth is ranked below #100). Like I said previously, Berkeley has very strong graduate programs, but Berkeley's undergraduate program, while pretty strong in its own right, isn't as good as its graduate programs. The same discrepency occurs at Cornell, as it is also a large research university, but to a less extent. Currently, U.S. News and World Report's rankings, while not perfect by any means, is probably the most accurate measure of undergraduate education.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Other than engineering and computer, what else is Berkeley better at? what about biomed? premed? journalism? Those are what I'm interested in.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Like I have said before, Berkeley is quite strong in all departments. It has an undergraduate business program that is consistently ranked in the top 4. Its English department is ranked #1. It has a strong psychology department. Its Chemistry program is consistently ranked #1. Biomed is also very strong if I remember correctly (I'll look it up later). I could go on and on.</p>
<p>Premed: I don't remember the statistics exactly, but I believe around 57% of Berkeley's pre-med students are accepted into at least one medical school (that means about 40% don't get into any), while around 73% of Cornell's pre-med students are accepted into at least one medical school. These are very rough figures as my memory isn't so great; I apologize. But there is a difference of 10-20%. One explanation for this is simply that Berkeley accepts more students, so it accepts more weaker students, and so with more students applying (and inevitably more mediocre students) the rejection rate goes up. Still, medical school admissions focuses primarily on GPA and MCATs, and while both schools are not very grade-inflated, the average GPA at Cornell is a bit higher. So, edge goes to Cornell if we are talking purely about med school admissions.</p>
<p>One comment on campus life: it seems like you are from California. If you are considering Cornell, consider the likely cultural shock you will experience if you plan to attend a college in the East Coast vs. a college in California. Also, if you are an Asian, you will be a small minority at Cornell vs. a majority at UC Berkeley. On the other hand, if you are an URM, you will find more people of your ethnicity at Cornell than at UC Berkeley. From my experience, college students are more comfortable hanging around their own ethnicity groups, so take that into consideration.</p>
<p>Overall, I would agree that Cornell probably has a slight edge in undergraduate education while Berkeley holds an edge in graduate education. However, also consider fit and environment. Many students focuses too much on one thing (like...one school is slightly better for pre-med) and forget that they have to spend the next four years of their life there! I would definitely encourage you to visit both schools, if you can.</p>
<p>i think vicissitudes posts are very accurate and encompassing, from my impression of both schools</p>
<p>
[quote]
if you are an Asian, you will be a small minority at Cornell vs. a majority at UC Berkeley
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It is clearly true that there are fewer Asians as a percentage of the student body at Cornell than at Berkeley. But I don't know that I would classify it is as a 'small minority'. Asians still constitute the single largest non-white racial group at Cornell, at 16% of all undergrads (and 14% of all students).</p>
<p>"students of Asian descent comprise the largest single community of color at Cornell, at 14 percent of the total student body, 16 percent of all undergraduates and 55 percent of all international students, "</p>
<p>While that's obviously lower than Berkeley's roughly 50% of Asian undergrads, 16% is still a pretty sizeable chunk.</p>
<p>Put another way, I believe that the percentage of Asians at Cornell is roughly similar to that at Harvard, and I have never heard anybody classify Asians at Harvard as a 'small minority'. Far from it, in fact.</p>
<p>Based on posts to CC, I'd say if you are interested in liberal arts go to Cornell.
I've seen a Berkeley grad on CC post contemptuously of liberal arts students and studies, and say these people at Berkeley have to fight tooth and nail to get job interviews. And a number of them wind up working in malls after graduation.</p>
<p>IMO Very few Cornell students, if any, would express such views of the liberal arts after experiencing a Cornell education. The liberal arts subjects and students of same were highly respected at Cornell. At least that's what I perceived.</p>
<p>Recruiting at Cornell was also a good deal more effective than Berkeley's situation, as reflected in these CC posts.</p>
<p>It seems very clear to me from these posts that whatever's going on at Berkeley in the liberal arts is not at all comparable to Cornell. I would stay far away from it, frankly.</p>
<p>As I recall, the post that was contemptuous of humanities at Berkeley was by a disgruntled former student who was not a student of the humanities. In fact, Berkeley boasts world-class offerings in the humanities: the English, Classics, German, Comparative Literature, History, and Music departments, to name a few, are among the best in the country, routinely viewed as on a par with Harvard, Yale, Princeton. Berkeley also offers an astounding number of foreign languages, including Hungarian, Finnish, and Dutch, which are offered in few other universities. I would discount the vitriol on collegeconfidential about Berkeley -- especially in the humanities, where the classes are generally small and congenial, taught by the same faculty that teach the graduate courses (except in freshman writing and lower division language classes) and there are no "weeder" classes to complain of.</p>
<p>The only reason I'm responding to this post is because I know 2 kids at Cornell who hate it and one kid at Berkeley who loves it. My Cornell friends think there are way too many Joisey kids there and the Berkeley kid loves the weather and thinks the girls are gorgeous. That's my input. Probably dumb reasons to pick a school, but go look at studentsreview.com.</p>
<p>
[quote]
IMO Very few Cornell students, if any, would express such views of the liberal arts after experiencing a Cornell education. The liberal arts subjects and students of same were highly respected at Cornell. At least that's what I perceived.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Funny you should say that, because a few weeks ago, I ran into a Cornell English grad who was tending bar at a pub local to where I am. I asked her why she was doing that, and she gave me the rather standard liberal arts reply: she can't exactly do a whole lot with her degree and so she's going to tend bar while applying to grad school (she didn't apply as a senior, so she's applying now). Then she started talking about all of her friends who are in similar situations. </p>
<p>Look, the truth is, liberal arts people at any school tend to have problems finding jobs relative to the people who get more marketable degrees. True, at the elite schools, the recruiting from consulting and banking firms tends to somewhat mitigate this issue, but those firms don't have room for everybody. In fact, they have room for only a small minority of the people who want to get in. </p>
<p>But hey, you don't have to take my word for it. Look at the data and see for yourself. You will see that plenty of Cornell grads are, frankly, not getting paid all that well. </p>
<p>For example, take the 2005 mean salary for the grads of the Arts and Sciences School of 39k. Obviously this would include some people who graduated with relatively more lucrative natural science degrees (such as the BA program in CS within the Cornell Arts and Sciences School), which means that those who graduated with humanities/soc-science degrees are probably making around 35k or so. Frankly, that's not much higher than the salaries that equivalent grads from all schools are making nationwide. or example, CNN reported the NACE salary figures today, and the percentage increase from what they got last year, and from that you can infer that humanities/soc-science grads nationwide got around 31-33k in 2005. So Cornell humanities/soc-science grads aren't doing THAT much better than the nationwide grads.</p>
<p>Let's look at English specifically. While for some reason Cornell doesn't report 2005 data for specific majors, the 2004 data indicates that the mean salary for Cornell English grads was about 29.7k. Granted, in 2003, the salaries were higher at 35.3k, but in 2002, the salaries were substantially lower at 25.7k. Compare that to the salaries of nationwide English majors in 2004 which, repoted by CNN, "Starting pay for English majors rose to $31,113". Hence, Cornell English grads were actually making LOWER than the average English grad in 2004.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.arts.cornell.edu/career/careersafter/english04.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.arts.cornell.edu/career/careersafter/english04.pdf</a>
<a href="http://money.cnn.com/2004/09/21/pf/college/starting_salaries/%5B/url%5D">http://money.cnn.com/2004/09/21/pf/college/starting_salaries/</a></p>
<p>I also see within the Cornell data that one grad reported that he/she took a job at a wine company as an office manager/assistant. Let's dispense with the euphemisms and say what this job really is - it's working as a secretary. Poking around, I also see that one Cornell government grad reported working as a barista for Starbucks - in other words, one of those counter workers at Starbucks who are slinging coffee. I see a Classics grad who is working as a file clerk. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.arts.cornell.edu/career/careersafter/government04.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.arts.cornell.edu/career/careersafter/government04.pdf</a> <a href="http://www.arts.cornell.edu/career/careersafter/classics04.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.arts.cornell.edu/career/careersafter/classics04.pdf</a></p>
<p>The point is not to pick on Berkeley or Cornell specifically but to simply point out that liberal arts grads IN GENERAL often times have problems with employment. The point is that even graduating with a liberal arts degree from even a prestigious school does not guarantee that you are going to have a good job waiting for you. Frankly speaking, you can get a job as a Starbucks barista or as a file clerk right out of high school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
As I recall, the post that was contemptuous of humanities at Berkeley was by a disgruntled former student who was not a student of the humanities. In fact, Berkeley boasts world-class offerings in the humanities: the English, Classics, German, Comparative Literature, History, and Music departments, to name a few, are among the best in the country, routinely viewed as on a par with Harvard, Yale, Princeton. Berkeley also offers an astounding number of foreign languages, including Hungarian, Finnish, and Dutch, which are offered in few other universities. I would discount the vitriol on collegeconfidential about Berkeley -- especially in the humanities, where the classes are generally small and congenial, taught by the same faculty that teach the graduate courses (except in freshman writing and lower division language classes) and there are no "weeder" classes to complain of.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Again, I am not 'contemptuous' of humanities AT BERKELEY, or rather contemptuous of anything at all. I am making the simple point that humanities majors IN GENERAL are not as marketable are not as marketable as other majors are, as demonstrated by my above posts. IN GENERAL, humanities students do not get jobs that are as well-paying as students of other majors get, and this seems to be true whether we are talking about Berkeley, Cornell, or any other school. </p>
<p>You don't have to believe me, you just have to believe the data. I have no problem with people wanting to study humanities. Rather, I think they ought to understand that they are going to have a less marketable degree, on average, than people who majored in other subjects, and if they don't understand that, or CHOOSE NOT to understand it, then that's going to be a problem.</p>