Cornell Worth the Debt?

<p>Cornell is a world class university. The education that it can provide you is priceless. Its diversity in everything from academics to culture is wonderful in its breadth. Ithaca is also a beautiful place with so many things to do - the location of Cornell is perfect. The best part about Cornell are its people - they party hard but also study hard. They know how to be serious about school but they also know how to have fun.</p>

<p>If I was in your shoes, I would definitely pay - even if its a very a large amount of money with significant debt. The experience that you will have Cornell will be amazing. You have to take the incentive to be social and make at least some time outside your studies but in the end, its worth it. Many Cornell grads get very good jobs. If you do well in Cornell undergrad, you can get into any graduate program in any other top university whether it be a P.h.d. or an MBA (places like Harvard, MIT,etc..) The job you'll get with an MBA from places like MIT will come with a very nice pay and in the end, you will be able to pay off all your debt. </p>

<p>You'll be very involved at Cornell. Everything from academics to clubs to sports and other social events. You'll learn to grow not just as an engineer but also as a person excellent at communication. This is what prepares you best for the real world. My cousin graduated from Cornell two years ago and she said that the years she spend at Cornell were the best time of her life. She was in many clubs (latin dance club, debate, running, indian society,etc...). She also had to work harder than she ever worked in her life because the academics were very challenging. Today, she works for a top company and makes around 70,000$ (her starting not including a big bonus). All with just an undergraduate degree. She also has excellent business and communication skills. She can work very well under pressure and when asked why she's so good at what she does, she credits it all to the intense but well rewarding Cornell education she received. </p>

<p>UC Boulder is a great school but Cornell is without a doubt, better. I have yet to meet a Cornelian who has not been 100% satisfied with his college experience. Many people have also said that they purposely have taken debts and payed much more just to get the Cornell experience. And they have not regretted it.</p>

<p>I'm curious as to why you have to spend four years to get your degree though. The most that a typical transfer student has to stay is 3 years or less at their final college. I'm guessing that last year was your freshman year at Boulder. I've also read a story in the news not too long ago regarding Boulder. A mechE who worked hard a graduated from Boulder couldn't find a job for several months. He had to live in his friends house while hunting for a job. Finally, a company hired him but retrained him as more of a civil engineer. </p>

<p>Unlike the above situation, I can tell you that at Cornell, you will not have unemployment problems to worry about provided you graduate with at least an average GPA (the higher the GPA the better; grad schools care a lot about GPA).</p>

<p>Good Luck</p>

<p>I would be going for 4 years because Cornell has a "fast track Master's" program, where I can get my Master of Engineering degree in just one year once I finish the last 3 years of undergrad. It sounds like most people say no from a purely economic standpoint, and I agree, but the new experience (I grew up right by CU Boulder) and increased enjoyment of college is a huge factor too. I still haven't decided, and this is killing me, because I could end up regretting my decision no matter what I do. I could go to Cornell and have a great time, but not do so well and come out 100,000 in debt but without a better degree than if I did well at CU. Or I could go to CU and do well but regret the lost experience I might have had at Cornell.</p>

<p>no regrets, man. no matter which decision you make you will be in fine hands. think about what you really want out of your undergrad. experience. you've lived in Colorado all of your life, are you up for a change of scenery and people? would you be okay sticking around for a couple more years cuz there is always grad school and such....you have the rest of your life to have "new experiences"
you visited the campus, right?? what was your gut feeling? did your heart leap, clearly saying "i just have to come here...i can't see it any other way" or was it more of a "meh..this place is nice but i could fit in just as well at CU Boulder." whatever your reaction is, listen to it and make your choice...there's no use in dwelling!
Hope this helped a little...</p>

<p>I actually attended Boulder a year before transferring out to a top school in NY. Boulder's engineering department is very challenging - especially , EE or chemE or aerospace. I would say that Cornell is a little harder but not much harder. Both schools are tough but doable for engineering; you'll do just fine at Cornell if you did well at Boulder. Boulder is a competitive atmosphere with many intelligent students who turned down IVY and other top schools because their in state residency made it so much more affordable. </p>

<p>I feel this is one opportunity at Cornell you should not pass up. Especially if you can get your Master's in the next 4 years. </p>

<p>I'm actually taking summer courses at Boulder right now - the weather is perfect and Boulder offers advanced courses that your typical univ. doesn't offer in the summer. The kind of student who can get a 4.0 in engineering at Boulder is a very intelligent and a very ambitious student. I have seen few do this. The average EE and chemE GPA are both below 2.8 at Boulder. So if you can take the load at Boulder engineering, you'll do just fine at Cornell! I think that the current standards at Boulder engineering should give you an idea of how well you'll at Cornell. I assume your doing well in Boulder and I'm positive you'll do fine at Cornell. Cornell is top ten in overall engineering rankings but Boulder isn't too far behind - top 30 (out of several hundreds of schools). </p>

<p>The only schools that can get really overwhelming are places like Cal-tech and MIT. MIT has had more suicides than any other school. These school are simply brutal at times but for a hard-working engineer, even they are doable. </p>

<p>So without further ado, get over to Ithaca, register, and tell you will be proud to be future Cornelian. Just so you know, the acceptance rate for engineers for this Fall at the Cornell school of engineering was VERY selective. Congrats on getting in and try and understand that many people don't get this chance. </p>

<p>Opportunity knocks once in a lifetime.</p>

<p>if this is an engineer, it might be worth it. However, for a history major or someone who doesn't plan going into a lucrative position, 60,000 in debt can really come to haunt you later in life (car payments, mortgages). Also, you realize, that engineers start with high salaries, but they level off and do not have the capacity to rise over a certain limit.</p>

<p>Not quite. Engineers can go back to school and get an MBA and come back. A Cornell undergrad can go to a place like Harvard or Yale (relatively easily) and get his MBA later in the future after some work experience. After that, your management career really starts and you can advance rapidly through positions (associate director, director, etc...) Your salary will increase greatly (especially with all the bonuses) and later on the future, it won't level out till it hits around 200K. Of course, it can be higher than that depending on what position you reach and in what company. I've heard that VP's in top fortune 100 companies sometimes make millions in just a single year.</p>

<p>The point is you have a choice later on. If you develop your communication and business skills and further your profile, you can have a fantastic future. Many engineers have become top executives this way.</p>

<p>Alright, I just found out that the total debt I'll have accumulated will be less than I first thought, now it's around 70,000. Does anyone have a changed opinion about whether or not I should go? Has anyone taken on this kind of debt themselves?</p>

<p>70, 000? what profession do you want to go into?</p>

<p>SqUirgleZQ- I turned down an "elite private" for Madison, along with money. While Cornell is ranked higher overall, Wisconsin has a highly ranked chemical engineering school (not to mention every other department) and top grades at Madison will give you the same post-graduation honors, for $50,000 less. It's a tough choice. You'll also be in the honors college in madison and be on the inside track for independent reserach and other things that will make you a stand out for graduate school.</p>

<p>madison is a great school. I would have no problem going there.</p>

<p>I have no doubt that Madison has a good academic program and that you can be successful wherever you go: Madison or Cornell. However, do you think you'd be happier at Cornell than Madison? Your going to be spending quite some time at these schools once you transfer (2-4 years). </p>

<p>Pick a school where you know you'll be happy at. Why don't you visit both campuses? Talk to undergrads in both the schools. Check out the towns in which both colleges reside in. Make sure that in the end, your truly secure about your decision. Ask yourself: aside from money and reputation (not that they aren't important), will I be happier at this place than other? </p>

<p>Or, does it honestly make no difference to you where you study at? When you make a decision, make sure your very secure about it.</p>

<p>I for one would never give up the opportunity to study in the New York, it has always been my dream and I wouldn't give it up for anything. However, not everyone is like me. Some people don't care too much about the location. I have seen people give up Berkeley to go to schools in Colorado. Now, they are still having a blast and doing well in college and don't regret their decision. I have seen people give up MIT to study at UC Boulder. Today, they still don't regret their decision and are happy and successful. My organic chem. TA gave up grad school at Berkeley to study at the UC Boulder grad school. All these people did this because of financial issues (they were middle class or lower). They were also somewhat apathetic to the location - my TA really has no regrets about not studying in Cali.</p>

<p>If your like one of these people and really don't care about location or popularity of the school, then it would be a better idea for you to save money and go to Madison. However, if you REALLY want to study in the beautiful city of Ithaca in the fabulous state of NY, choose Cornell.</p>

<p>Well duh, because Madison isn't in NY, and isn't in Ithaca, I too suggest going to Cornell University, if you want both of those :)</p>

<p>Its people like you who really get on my nerves. We don't need to get really picky about this but since your being such a smart-ass, I'll explain myself for now.</p>

<p>First of all; I put the adjectives, "beautiful" and "fabulous" before Ithaca and New york for a reason. That was to emphasize that I felt they were very exciting places, certainly more exciting than your average city or state. </p>

<p>Second; when I said, attend Cornell if you want to be in the beautiful city of Ithaca and fabulous state of NY - I didn't just mean attend it simply because of its location in NY. I meant, attend it because Ithaca and NY in general are more beautiful than your average place (which is why I specifically placed the adjectives on them). And for many people - including the author of the OP - the kind of place may be an important factor in making a transfer decision.</p>

<p>So please try and spare me the side comments. If you want to help, say something useful regarding the OP.</p>

<p>For me, Cornell reminded me A LOT of Madison...the earthy scenery, the lake, the cold, bitter winter. the only thing madison was missing was a waterfall or two. How is Cornell more exciting from your "average city," cuz it could just be me, but I thought Ithaca was a bit boring...
eternity--are you from the east coast?? for some reason you east coasters like to sell the ivies cuz my relatives seem to think that I'm making a big mistake by not choosing Cornell. ah well..decisions, decisions. must sleep on it another night.</p>

<p>eternity_hope2005, if you are as hardassed as the Cornell student body, I don't see why anyone applies there. I was just being a bit humerous and silly. I put a SMILEY FACE next to my post to point this out. Calm down, I didn't mean to offend or make you type a thesis explaining an OBVIOUS point.</p>

<p>I'm not prepared to do an analysis of Ithaca vs Madison but Madison has been ranked the top city to live in the United States and has many "natural" areas. No waterfalls though. Unlike Ithica, however, on the other side of campus is a city with 250,000 people in it, a state capital, and a more "urban" setting. You get the best of both worlds. You can live across from Starbucks, or you can live next to a peaceful lake under the stars on a clear, snowy, winter evening. Oh yeah, we don't have gorges to jump off and kill yourself. So take that into consideration... ;)</p>

<p>The only way you could call Ithaca exciting in a cosmopolitan sense would be the drive to nearby cities, or NYC. For that, Madison has daily bus service to and from Milwaukee and Chicago. I mean, it's hard to compare a school that has 40,000 students in one of the most intellectual cities in the country to one whose student paper refers to it as "Corn-Hell" (<a href="http://germain.umemat.maine.edu/faculty/hiebeler/papers/dailysun/99oct14.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://germain.umemat.maine.edu/faculty/hiebeler/papers/dailysun/99oct14.html&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;/p>

<p>You think Ithaca is boring? A lot of people in this world would disagree with you on that, not just me. Also, a lot of people would disagree with you regarding the fact that you think Ithaca is not more scenic or beautiful than the average location - it is ranked as one of the most beautiful campuses in the country.</p>

<p>On another note, your entitled to your own opinion. Just because I feel that the Cornell location is more scenic than Madison doesn't mean you have to. And no I'm not originally from the East Coast. I've spent the last 7 years in Colorado.</p>

<p>Read my edit.</p>

<p>Ithaca is very pretty. I totally agree.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/29/AR2005042900607_pf.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/29/AR2005042900607_pf.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>In Madison, Wis., the King of Quirks</p>

<p>By Cindy Loose
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, May 1, 2005; P01</p>

<p>The magazines and trade associations that rank cities for one thing or another constantly mention Madison, Wis. A visitors bureau handout lists 65 accolades from recent years, including "Best Places to Live in America" (Money magazine), "Best Walking Cities" (Prevention) and "Best College Sports Town" (Sports Illustrated).</p>

<p>According to America's list makers, Madison is also one of the friendliest, best-designed, healthiest, most literate, best-wired little cities in the country, with the best biking, canoeing and hotel rooms under $125.</p>

<p>It takes Michael Feldman, who hosts the public radio show "Whad'Ya Know?" from Madison's convention center, to put the boosterism into perspective.</p>

<p>"If you don't factor in the weather, Madison is number one for everything," says Feldman. "If you do consider weather, it's 159th."</p>

<p>My thoughts on first seeing Madison on a warm spring day: It's like an idealized New England town designed in Berkeley, Calif. The University of Wisconsin campus has stately buildings with wide green spaces for student lounging, and the downtown begins with a leafy square, from which streets lined with tidy old buildings branch off. And it's not one of those fakey old downtowns. It's a real downtown, where you can buy not only presents but also everyday items, like a notebook or ball of twine.</p>

<p>Feldman, whose humor/quiz show is broadcast over more than 300 stations nationwide, provides a bird's-eye view of the area that creates another more vivid mental picture.</p>

<p>"From the air, it looks like a giant sinus cavity," he says, "with Madison as the septum."</p>

<p>During the tour through Madison that Feldman agrees to squire, I never get an aerial view. But any map will show you he's right.</p>

<p>Taking the sinus cavity perspective, the campus sprawls just above the bridge of a large nose. The lively downtown stretches down an isthmus -- a nose-shape strip with shops, restaurants and a spiffy performing arts center in the midst of a $200 million expansion.</p>

<p>The State Capitol is in the nostrils area. Drainage, namely Lake Mendota and Lake Monona, sit on either side of the nose.</p>

<p>I meet Feldman in the Capitol rotunda. Easily as impressive as the U.S. Capitol, which served as its model, the Wisconsin version looks brighter and better, probably because of the $145 million renovation project completed a few years ago.</p>

<p>On this day, blind people representing various organizations are spread in a circle at tables beneath the Capitol dome. I approach Ralph Barten of Ladysmith, Wis., who is representing the Wisconsin Coalition of Blind Hunters. Sure, people who are blind can hunt in Wisconsin, Barten tells me. In fact, he says, last year the state legalized the use of laser pointers on guns and bows for blind hunters.</p>

<p>What you do is take a sighted companion, who describes where the animal is, and you shoot it. With a laser, it's a lot easier for the sighted person to know when you've got your shot lined up right.</p>

<p>"Some companions just say, 'There's a deer to the right,' " says Barten. "But good companions can make it really exciting, with great descriptions of what's happening."</p>

<p>Barten also mounts antlers and makes stuff from them, like hat racks and toilet paper holders. He calls his Ladysmith shop Ralph's Rack Shack.</p>

<p>This month a referendum passed that would allow hunters to shoot stray cats. How can hunters identify which cats are fair game? "You know they're strays when they don't respond to pleasantries," says Feldman. The governor has said that if a bill passes the legislature, he'll veto it.</p>

<p>As we walk through the Capitol, Feldman tells me to look for fossils embedded in the walls. "Not former members, real ones." And right there, on the grand staircase, fourth step from the bottom, is a starfish fossil, estimated to be 400 million years old. Turns out that dozens of ancient ammonites are set into the massive stones used to build the Capitol.</p>

<p>Volunteers give tours hourly, but Feldman has arranged for us to meet Democratic Rep. Spencer Black. "He might be the last remaining liberal in the Wisconsin State House, and a really nice guy," Feldman says.</p>

<p>"Is he your representative?"</p>

<p>"Well, I thought he was and complained to him for years," answers Feldman. "Finally he found out what side of the street I live on and gave me the name of my real rep."</p>

<p>Black is in a closed room, fighting to open the hearings on a bill Feldman recognizes and calls a "pro-pollution bill." Black pops out long enough to tell us that the Capitol is a great place to see government in action.</p>

<p>"With the exception of the closed hearings," interjects Feldman, a middle-aged guy with dark, unruly hair who mentions that he used to be 5 foot 11 inches but is down a quarter-inch.</p>

<p>From outside the Capitol, we get a good look at the majestic statue atop the peak of the dome. It's the gold-plated figure of a woman with a "W" on her chest, an ear of corn behind each ear and a badger perched on her head.</p>

<p>By law, no structure can be taller than the Capitol, so the badger's butt is the highest point in Madison -- facts noted in the book "Wisconsin Curiosities," co-authored by Feldman.</p>

<p>I'm beginning to realize that this quirky guy comes from a quirky state. And despite all of the trendy, arty sophistication of Madison, the state's quirks shine through.</p>

<p>The ultimate arty side of Madison is within view of the Capitol: the Overture Center for the Arts.</p>

<p>Madison was already a Midwest center for arts and culture when native son W. Jerome Frautschi and his wife Pleasant Rowland, creator of the American Girl dolls, decided to donate a record-breaking $200 million to expand the downtown center.</p>

<p>The completed first phase includes a 2,257-seat, state-of-the-art performing arts theater with walls and panels that shift and move by computer, to maximize acoustics for various types of performances. When the second phase is finished next spring, the center will house nine resident arts groups, including an opera company, a ballet company, a symphony orchestra, a chamber orchestra and theater companies.</p>

<p>The addition, designed by architect Cesar Pelli, comes highly acclaimed. According to the Chicago Sun-Times, Chicago Symphony Orchestra musicians who performed there proclaimed it better than any hall they'd ever played.</p>

<p>I return to the center that evening and during a performance of Carl Nielsen's Fifth Symphony by the Madison Symphony Orchestra, I hear and feel in my bones the results of world-class acoustics. The well-regarded resident companies do full seasons at the center, which features seven performance and five visual-arts spaces.</p>

<p>Most of the seats in the center's main hall are 19 inches wide. People of extreme girth may request the section with seats that are 22 inches wide. No extra charge -- just reveal your backside needs when reserving tickets.</p>

<p>After a quick tour of the center during our day together, Feldman and I stroll up State Street, which connects the Capitol and the campus.</p>

<p>Feldman, who grew up in Milwaukee, arrived at the Madison campus as a freshman in 1967, just in time for the last panty raid. Within months, the antiwar movement exploded. Feldman points out Bascom Hill and remembers when National Guardsmen violently clashed with student protesters.</p>

<p>"Today, it's where kids nap between classes," says Feldman. "We're in a period of student rest. Actually, Madison is a hotbed of student rest. There's still an occasional protest, but it's usually about beer permits."</p>

<p>Feldman has been here so long, he says, that he's beginning to see members of his class return for retirement. During his years here, he's driven a cab, taught at an alternative high school and did a volunteer gig on a Friday night radio call-in show for "the undateable, bedridden and geriatric" -- Feldman's description. One thing led to another until 1985, when he launched "Whad'Ya Know?" Twenty years later, he says the show is about everything he knows how to do: free-associate, use a microphone, write jokes and take phone calls.</p>

<p>We walk into the Rathskeller in the student union, where student agitators used to hatch their protest schemes. The walls are a sooty, nicotine brown.</p>

<p>"They thought the walls were stained with cigarette smoke, but they cleaned them and found out the paint was actually that color," says Feldman. "You used to be able to smoke pot here; now you can't smoke cigarettes."</p>

<p>We gather lunch from the student union cafeteria line and sit at brightly colored metal tables that stretch to Lake Mendota. It's one of the prettiest places in Madison -- a scene that Washington Post associate editor David Maraniss described as "a little splash of Paris set down in the American Midwest" in his book "They Marched Into Sunlight," about the division the Vietnam War brought to America.</p>

<p>Feldman says some student protest leaders never left Madison. Well-known organizer Paul Soglin, for example, was mayor for a while, but is now an investment adviser. Two farm boys, brothers Karl and Dwight Armstrong, returned to Madison after serving years in prison for using fertilizer bombs to blow up a math research building in 1970.</p>

<p>"Dwight drives a cab. Karl owns a restaurant and a smoothie cart. The cart sells things like Angela Davis Banana Smoothies and Dick Gregory Mochas," says Feldman. "The kids have no idea what the names refer to."</p>

<p>Famed architect Frank Lloyd Wright is another Madison guy. The home and studio he built for himself, Taliesin, is 38 miles away and open to visitors. Two Wright houses and a church are within city limits. Additionally, Wright designed before his death the Monona Terrace Community and Convention Center, where Feldman holds his live show Saturday mornings. City leaders weren't always keen on Wright, and it took 60 years to get the center built along the shores of Lake Monona.</p>

<p>"The best view is from the water," Feldman says. "From Madison, all you see is the back of it. It's like he's mooning the city."</p>

<p>The next day, on my own, I take Feldman's advice to check out the university milking barns to see cows that have portholes in their stomachs so that students can study their digestive systems. Seems cruel, but the cows appear content and perfectly normal, except for the see-through stomachs. A pre-vet student says that if I wait while she returns some foals to pasture, she'll open the porthole and give me a closer look. Really, I've seen enough.</p>

<p>I head back downtown to the Wisconsin Historical Museum, across the street from the Capitol, and encounter a life-size rendering of a cow that is standing on nuts, bolts and rivets. A card explains that the display "is a reminder that manufacturing has been as vital to Wisconsin's economy as fields of grass filled with milk-producing Holsteins."</p>

<p>On the next floor, behind a glass wall, is an exhibit of a typical Wisconsin family room in the early 1990s. The next exhibit is a typical Wisconsin kitchen from the same period. Cupboards are open so you can see what kinds of things people in Wisconsin ate in the 1990s. Clearly they had a varied, high-salt diet, judging from the cans of Hormel chili, Hunt's tomato paste and Campbell's chicken noodle soup.</p>

<p>Feldman, when I later check back to report on my solo adventures, laughs, but can explain.</p>

<p>"We badgers get nostalgic very quickly."</p>

<p>Yet another quirk in a charming, quirky place.</p>

<p>Also:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.burnsphotography.com/stockuw.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.burnsphotography.com/stockuw.htm&lt;/a> Has some great pictures of the campus.</p>

<p>Ok I'm a little drunk so I didnt read everythign but Cornell is a lot like Madison. I spent a summer there (madison) and the atmosphere reminded me a lot of cornell. Granted it's not beautiful like Cornell but the two places are very simialr. Also I didn't read that last post because it's really long.</p>