Corporate Law

Graduate School Business School - MBA
1

<p>I am planning for the future and thinking about all possible options. First, what are the main differences between working as a transactional corporate lawyer or an investment banking anyalysist/associate? I know that ibanking usually is more quantitative and involves financial modeling but am unsure about the life of a corporate law associate? Which would allow me to have more free time, a nicer office, more money?</p>

<p>For after undergraduate, would it be better to try and get a job as a ibanking analyst? Do that for the 2 year program and then try and get into a top law school? Or at that point would it make more sense to try and get into a top bschool and go for the associate position at the ibank? Or I could try and apply to law school right after undergrad? Would 2 years as an analyst look good on a law school application. I know work experience is a necessary for bschool, but would i be too old for law?</p>

<p>Also, for undergrad trying to get into a top law school would it be better to go to a big school or a smaller liberal arts? I think i would have a better chance of getting an ibank job at an ivy or other top school but would a smaller college in general be better for applying to law right out of undergrad?</p>

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<p>I don't know if my last message was confusing but bascially I wan't to know what the differences are between applying to law school and applying to bschool. Which is easier to get into? Would the ibanking anyalist route be a good route into law school? Or would it be better to just try and apply to law right out of undergrad?</p>

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<p>I think you'd just need to go to law school. The only weird types of lawyers I can think of are tax lawyers, those people usually have some sort of undergrad accounting degree/experience before hand. But I think for corporate law you'd learn everything at law school. There's always combined JD+MBA programs though.</p>

<p>As for money, I think bankers in the end make more than lawyers. A Lawyer's hours might be a bit less, but not a whole lot.</p>

4

<p>I don't have any experience with this, but I'll summarize what I've picked up from other threads.</p>

<p>For law school, the main things that matter are your undergrad GPA, your LSAT, and not having a criminal record. Hypothetically, you could go into ibanking and then apply to law school after a couple of years. What matters is that when applying to law school, you had a high undergrad GPA and you scored well on the LSAT. Having experience as an analyst won't really have much of an impact on applying to law school. And no, you wouldn't be too old if you applied to law school after working for a few years. I'm sure people have gone to law school in their 30's. Bottom line: you can usually get into a good law school as long as you have your GPA and LSAT covered.</p>

<p>Getting into a top b-school for an MBA largely depends on your work experience. If you demonstrated strong leadership qualities or you had a genuine impact at your workplace, then you have a better chance of getting into a top b-school. Grades and GMAT's are important for b-school admissions to an extent, but having great work experience can compensate for a mediocre GPA or GMAT.</p>

<p>In terms of ibanking or corporate law, it really comes down to what you think you'd be more interested in doing. Both jobs are very demanding and will take up a lot of your time. You have to genuinely be interested in law or else law school and a law-related career will be difficult to get through.</p>

<p>With ibanking, the hours are brutal, and the work you do can become rather monotonous. However the compensation is quite good even for recent undergrads. If you're in pursuit of more money, ibanking is probably the answer, assuming you last through the grueling first few years.</p>

<p>Like dcfca said, getting a JD+MBA is always a possibility and would keep your options open in terms of going into ibanking or corporate law. However, you have to keep in mind that you usually need work experience do get admitted to an MBA program. Plus, an MBA and JD both cost a very pretty penny.</p>

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<p>If you want the JD+MBA, you should apply to schools where both are well respected programs, not just one or the other. If I'm not mistaken, you have to apply to both schools and get into both, like both NYU Stern MBA and NYU Law JD, to qualify for the joint-degree program.</p>

<p>This thread kind of made me question something about law vs. i-banking. I know there are corporate lawyers who do M&A. Then there are those i-bankers doing it. How are their roles different?</p>

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<p>"This thread kind of made me question something about law vs. i-banking. I know there are corporate lawyers who do M&A. Then there are those i-bankers doing it. How are their roles different?"</p>

<p>I have the same question. What is the difference? I always thought that ibanking is more about financail modeling and law was writing breifs but i could be wrong?</p>

<p>Also what are the exit opportunities for corporate law? How do they compare to ibanking exit opps? Do a lot of lawers switch over to ibanking later in their carrers? How does the money comapre as a partner at a top firm or vp or md at an ibank?</p>

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<p>
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I always thought that ibanking is more about financail modeling and law was writing breifs but i could be wrong

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<p>Actually, while Ibanking often times start out as quant-jockey modeling and spreadsheet crunching, as you move up, it becomes more like sales. As you move up, you will have underlings do all the numbers-crunching for you, and it will be your job to actually bring in deals. In that sense, you could say that high-end IB and high-end lawfirm jobs are somewhat similar in that both tend to evolve into sales jobs - i.e., who can bring in the most business into the firm. However, what you are selling will be totally different. Bankers will be pitching bigtime financial deals. Lawyers will be pitching legal services. </p>

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Also what are the exit opportunities for corporate law?

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<p>Starting your own law firm. Joining some other law firm. Working as a corporate attorney. </p>

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How do they compare to ibanking exit opps?

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<p>Completely different. Burned-out Ibankers often go work for hedge funds or private equity firms. Either that or they take a job in the Finance department of some big company. </p>

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Do a lot of lawers switch over to ibanking later in their carrers?

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<p>This is practically impossible. There really are only 2 opportunities in life to get into IB - right after undergrad and right after graduate school (usually B-school, but sometimes also law school or Phd). It is extremely difficult to get into IB otherwise, and especially if you've been working in another field for awhile. You can't just decide one fine day that you don't like what you are doing so you want to get into investment banking. It doesn't work that way. </p>

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How does the money comapre as a partner at a top firm or vp or md at an ibank?

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<p>The top money in IB almost always dwarfs what can be made by the top lawyers. The only exceptions I've seen are those big tort cases where a lawyer wins a percentage of some gigantic civil payment. </p>

<p>For example, according to American Lawyer magazine, the average compensation for partners in the top 100 law firms in 2003 was about $930k. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.law.com/jsp/law/amlaw100.jsp%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.law.com/jsp/law/amlaw100.jsp&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>While that's obviously a lot of money, that's chump change compared to top Managing Directors at the top IB's. For example, in 1999, Managing Directors at the Bulge Bracket were pulling in anywhere from 400k-20million. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.careers-in-finance.com/ibsal.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.careers-in-finance.com/ibsal.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Obviously things get even better if you can rise above Managing Director to become Department Head. Basically, the best Department Heads can make more money in 1 year than most law firm partners can make in their whole career. Which supports what I've always said - if all you care about is money, don't go to law (or medicine or anywhere else). Go be an investment banker.</p>

<p>Now obviously the money is what's good about IB. There are many things that are bad about IB. First off, if there is anything more grueling and time-consuming than trying to make partner in a law firm, it's trying to make it in IB. IB represents the lunatic fringe in terms of workload, especially during the first few years. Secondly, a lot of ex-bankers say that they left the field because they don't find it fulfilling. All you're doing is trying to land financial deals. As a lawyer, you may find intellectual stimulation and even perhaps a sense of social justice depending on the cases you get. IB is all about money and closing the deal and a lot of people find that off-putting and boring. That's evidenced by all the ex-bankers who are now doing other things having nothing to do with finance. Lawyers may get sick of the grind of trying to make partner, but they don't usually completely quit law entirely. A lot of bankers completely quit the world of high finance entirely.</p>

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<p>hi guys.this is teh time when admissions in b schools has done and we have to make teh final choice.can anyone please guide me....rutgers, vtech(pamplin), or baruch(zicklin)???pleaseeeeeeeeee</p>

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<p>So what would be the best way to prepare for law school if you don't think ibanking would be good? What are the best ugrad schools to get into the best law schools?</p>

<p>At the lower levels how do the jobs differ? For example how would ones life as a corporate law associate differ from that of a assocaite at an ibank? Are the starting pays about equal? </p>

<p>Would it be easier to get a corporate law job coming out of top 30 law school or an ibank job coming out of a top 30 undergrad or bschool? Basically i wan't to know which is more of a sure thing, being able to land a good law or ibanking job, assuming you have similar credentials.</p>

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<p>One more thing regarding the above post. I have read that ibanks recruit at top law schools. But if you are a corporate m and a lawer at a top firm, is it possible to switch over to ibanking? If you knew you were not on the partnership track? </p>

<p>Do partners every switch over to ibanking? I have read on cravath and other law firm websites that they have alum at comanies like goldman? does that mean that those people work in the ibanking department as md or vp?</p>

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What are the best ugrad schools to get into the best law schools?

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<p>No surprise, it would be places like HYPS. </p>

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At the lower levels how do the jobs differ? For example how would ones life as a corporate law associate differ from that of a assocaite at an ibank? Are the starting pays about equal?

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<p>You're both working like dogs. The road to partnership is typically a 7-8 year track, and your salary does increase every year, but not by that much. IB is far more ruthless and based on star power. You're expected to either advance every few years, or leave the firm. Hence, IB pay rises very quickly for those who are able to stay and get promoted. However, the competition for promotion is stiff and relentless. </p>

<p>Starting pays tend to be higher as an IB associate than as a first-year corporate lawyer, and the pays tend to stay higher. Keep in mind that most IB associates have MBA's. Relatively few have just a law degree. </p>

<p>
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Would it be easier to get a corporate law job coming out of top 30 law school or an ibank job coming out of a top 30 undergrad or bschool? Basically i wan't to know which is more of a sure thing, being able to land a good law or ibanking job, assuming you have similar credentials.

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<p>The former is easier. It is darn hard to get an IB job coming out of anything outside the top 10 or 15. </p>

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But if you are a corporate m and a lawer at a top firm, is it possible to switch over to ibanking? If you knew you were not on the partnership track?

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<p>That's almost impossible. Like I said, there are really are 2 chances to get into IB - either right after undergrad, or right after graduate school. IB's do not generally take experienced people. The only exception I could see is if you really make a name for yourself in securities litigation. Then you would be very hirable in an IB - but generally only for a job as inhouse counsel. You will almost never be given a straight IB associate's job. </p>

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Do partners every switch over to ibanking? I have read on cravath and other law firm websites that they have alum at comanies like goldman? does that mean that those people work in the ibanking department as md or vp?

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<p>Again, these are usually people who got into IB right after law school. I would venture that a lot of them never even bothered to take the Bar, because they had no intent of actually practising law. They just used law school as a means to get into IB. </p>

<p>Of course you also have those people who get their JD/MBA's and then get into IB.</p>

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<p>That all sounds good. But I still don't understand what the work is like for a corporate law associate? What would I be doing? </p>

<p>Assuming you are working corporate law but the firm decides you are not geting promoted to partner, can you switch to another firm and become partner there? What are the other opportunites to still stay involved in M & A assuming you don't want to start your own firm? Basically what other options, beside law are availble for people who worked in corporate law but did not make partner?</p>

<p>What kind of grades and lsat scores are nessicary to get into a top 10 law school coming from a state school (Arizona State or Univesity of Arizona) compared to coming from a top 20 undergrad school (BC, Notre Dame, Tufts)</p>

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<p>There is a thread in the Parents forum being responded to by a number of current/ex attorneys:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=78046%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=78046&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Its a great discussion in and of itself to get a realisitic picture of the pros and cons of law as a career. But also, possibly one of the posters could help you understand what it is an M&A lawyer does as distinct from an Ibanker.</p>

<p>From what I have observed, in an M& A transaction, the law firm is going to be securing the best possible situation for its client, be it seller or buyer. And the safest. It is going to negotiate and draft as lock-tight a basic agreement and all sorts of ancillary agreements as possible , to cover all bases, to provide for good tranfer of assets (tangible and intangible) and proper assumption of liabilities. </p>

<p>In an acquisition deal, it is going to ferret out and evaluate all the potential risks of taking on an existing company by thorough examination of everything from about the target entity, internally, externally, historically. It is going negotiate the terms of payment and provide for modification of the purchase price in the event of certain contigencies, to carefully specify exactly what is and is not being acquried, help determine what kinds of unexpected new information along the way will make or break the deal. It is going to make the sorts of filings and notifications necessary to provide for a seamless, immediate transfer of the business upon closing of the acquisiton. It is going to negotiate and draft many of the documents required to secure the funds for the acquisition. It will involve purely corporate lawyers, real estate lawyers, commercial lawyers, tax, securities, intellectual property and employee benefits lawyers. </p>

<p>The corporate practioner representing a seller is going to evaluate the proposed deal for its merits and the viability of the purchaser, and negotiate the very best situation for the shareholders, directors, officers and employees of the selling business, procure the information demanded by counsel for the buyer, review and negotiate modifications to the purchase agreement and other documents in the best interests of the seller.</p>