Could Someone Please Define Upper Midlle Class For Me

College Search & Selection
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<p>I'm hoping my daughter will choose a LAC or a small STEM college. I've been reading up on some of these schools, and the topic of preppiness and wealth comes up a lot.</p>

<p>I hadn't given much thought to the wealth of the students until tonight, but one post in particular got me really thinking about how comfortable my daughter would be at a school with a bunch of rich kids.</p>

<p>Even the term upper middle class worries me, and I realized that people might have very different ideas of what that means.</p>

<p>In a thread about Holy Cross, a student said that it was mostly upper middle class, white athletic kids there. In the northeast, where things are very expensive, a family income that might sound upper middle class to people in other parts of the country, might be just enough to scrape by here.</p>

<p>I guess what I'm really trying to figure out is what LACs and other small private schools would have middle class kids attending, whatever that means.</p>

<p>A thread about the University Of Richmond might have given me a good barometer. Someone mentioned that some of the kids there drive BMW's. That is definitely upper to me, and I'm pretty sure my daughter would feel uncomfortable in an environment like that. I'm not saying that the poster's characterization of UR is accurate - it's just an example. I would be interested in whether people think it is accurate, though.</p>

<p>Rather than try to define middle-class, upper-middle-class, etc, maybe the better question is this: what selective LAC's or small private colleges do you know of where the wealth of the kids is on the lower end for a LAC/small private college. My wife and I both have professional jobs, and we're both well educated, but I don't want to send my daughter to a school where the kids are all driving cars more expensive than the one I'm commuting in.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

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<p>If your student is able to make it into an elite LAC that meets full need/is need blind or close to it in its admissions decisions, then there will be students from all walks of life. True also for the Ivies andthe Top 20 universities. Yes, there will be people who want to only date guys who drive a jag (yes, a real girl in my dorm), but there will also be people who had a single mom who worked on a factory line (the guy upstairs in my same dorm).</p>

<p>I think it’s important to be open minded toward all of the other students. They all have something to learn from each other. </p>

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<p>@Picapole, thanks for your reply. You make a good point.</p>

<p>I guess my challenge is to find a LAC that is need blind, academically rigorous, and also gives merit aid to a large percentage of students.</p>

<p>I’m not sure if that exists, but I’ll check it out. </p>

<p>Pretty sad about that Jag girl :-)</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

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<p>Many people have suggested the book “Colleges That Change Lives” (whether this may or may not be true is up for debate, but it does contain some good LAC options) for smaller schools that give good merit aid.</p>

<p>In addition, I think it’s important to remember it is your daughter that will eventually be selecting a college. While it is perfectly fine to make suggestions, I think it is a good thing to expose her to a wide variety of environments so that she can select one that is good fit for her. This may come from one that might not be in line with what you are originally expecting. </p>

<p>There’s a lot to be said about a college with diversity, but you shouldn’t necessarily rule a college out based on class assumptions alone. Similarly, it is important to note that you shouldn’t believe everything you read on the internet. The BMW comment was likely a hyperbole. Statistically speaking, usually students that attend LACs are of slightly higher income levels than students that don’t.</p>

<p>For what it’s worth, from where I am from, UVA and University of Richmond do have the reputation of having students from more of the upper middle class, but that doesn’t mean they are bad schools or that a lower income student wouldn’t be comfortable there, just that they are different.</p>

<p>A good measure of the socioeconomic diversity of certain schools would actually be to look at the need based aid of different schools (for instance, how many students receive pell grants). But again, you shouldn’t let that weigh too heavily in your decision, especially if the school may appeal to someone like your daughter for academic or environmental reasons.</p>

<p>Explore, have fun, and good luck with college apps</p>

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<p>I think looking at the college culture is better than thinking about who is ‘rich’ or not or calling people ‘rich kids’. I has someone warn me that Brown would be ‘rich’ kids but I know that the students I met on quite a few visits were unpretentious, although that could just have been my kid’s friends. But she was also on scholarship at a boarding school so was used to kids that had more than her. But that was a very California casual style school. Also a lot of kids don’t have cars at college, it can be too much hassle depending on location. I can’t really imagine factoring kids cars into picking a college.</p>

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<p>@BrownParent, thanks for the reply. I agree that culture is what really matters, but let’s be honest, money affects culture. </p>

<p>Let’s take high schools, for example. If you visited two high schools - one very poor high school, and one very rich one - I guarantee the cultures there would be very different.</p>

<p>I realize that two LAC’s might not be as different as two high schools on opposite ends of the socioeconomic spectrum, but I wouldn’t be surprised if two different LAC’s had very different cultures, due in large part to the wealth of the typical student.</p>

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<p>I guess my point is that kids can be very well off and nice and normal too.</p>

<p>This might interest you
<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/economic-diversity-among-top-ranked-schools”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/economic-diversity-among-top-ranked-schools&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>A lot of people think of USC as ‘University of Spoiled Children’ but 25% are on Pell Grants, interestingly.</p>

<p>Maybe your student would like LAC with social justice types. Like Pitzer, Hampshire, Oberlin, Reed. Or colleges where students are really academic and social life is lower key. Or colleges without large Greek systems. I don’t see students driving fancy cars at any of the Claremont colleges but there must be some, the students are well off but they give a lot of aid too.</p>

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Sociologists and demographers pretty consistently consider the UMC to be self-directed professionals such as doctors, lawyers, professors, architects, etc.</p>

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Ditto this. Like all elite colleges, there’s lot of UMC kids at my alma mater; the average income for the families of white students was a whopping $230K at last reporting. Meanwhile, I came from a family making a little under the national mean at the time (~$58K). It was fine. I didn’t have a car, I dressed casually in jeans and a t-shirt or sweater, and I spent many of my breaks working full time instead of heading off to NYC for an unpaid internship like most of my friends. I never felt at all uncomfortable or out of place due to my background.</p>

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Glancing over the list BrownParent posted, Smith sticks out. It has a high percentage of Pell Grant recipients for a private college, and it has long had an excellent reputation for churning out female scientists and engineers. The other relatively economically diverse LACs are rather predictably the most selective (Williams, Swat, Amherst, Pomona, etc.) and the wealthiest (Grinnell). A Pell Grant percentage above 10% is pretty respectable for a selective private college. </p>

<p>Another useful benchmark is the percentage of students on financial aid and the average amount of financial aid awarded. You can find that information in Section H of the Common Data Set. (Google the CDS for each college or look for a college’s Office of Institutional Research.) Needless to say, you’re going to find a lot of UMC kids at colleges with $60K price tags and only about 40% of students on financial aid. </p>

<p>The Work Colleges tend to recruit a lot of lower income students and require them to work as part of the financial aid package. Warren Wilson may be worth a look as a possible safety school if her interests lie primarily in biology – students do everything from taking care of the cows to plumbing to working in the forest, and you couldn’t ask for a more liberal, friendly, and live-and-let-live place. Needless to say, you’re more likely to see a WWC student driving a tractor than a BMW! :wink: The campus is extremely green and lovely, and the facilities are all very nice and well-maintained. It’s not terribly far from Asheville, which is a very nice, artsy/hippie-ish town. It’s unfortunately gentrifying and becoming more expensive, but it’s still a fun place for a college kid. Warren Wilson is particularly strong in creative writing and environmental science/studies. </p>

<p>Look for colleges like Swarthmore that make events on campus free for students – plays, musical performances, movie screenings, athletic events, etc. One of the things I dislike most about UCLA is the nickel and diming of students for such things; it’s one reason I’ve gone to far fewer student events than I did as an undergraduate. Also factor in the cost of living in the area; it can be a lot more expensive to spend a night out on the town in a big city than in a college town. Many NYU posters have complained over the years about how NYC night life forces a social stratification among students. </p>

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When it comes time to get a job, whom one knows can be at least as important as what one knows. Wealthy/powerful families may seem intimidating or off-putting as a prospective student, but they may be useful resources later down the road…something to consider. The networking that comes with selective colleges is something that draws many students to them. </p>

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<p>I define upper middle class as having enough money for everything you need and some money left over for wants. A typical upper middle class family has decent (non-clunker) cars, gets takeout for dinner when things are busy, goes out to dinner occasionally, and takes a nice vacation each year. Their kids have iphones and Uggs (or whatever is in) - some of those kids worked for that stuff themselves, some got it for Christmas, and some got it from Grandma, but their kids all have it. These families are not independently wealthy and they still need to work to maintain their lifestyle. Upper middle class people can afford their state flagship.</p>

<p>If you consider the lifestyle I’ve described as too intimidating for your child, then you might have a problem finding a suitable merit granting LAC. The reason upper middle class people send their kids to merit granting LAC’s is that they don’t have 240 grand to throw at an undergrad degree. They’re willing to cut out or cut back their vacation and their dinners out, but they’ve mostly worked too hard to go back to Ramen Noodles and Mac n Cheese - and that’s what it would take for them to pay a non-merit granting LAC. That, or they’d have to take on debt and after paying off their own med, law school, or other educational loans, the upper middle class don’t wish to thrust heavy school debt upon themselves and their children.</p>

<p>As far as BMW’s, by which I take to mean distastefully showy wealth among college kids, I wouldn’t worry about it. The majority of kids are not going to be that way anywhere. Are there going to be jerks at college? Yup - rich and poor ones. I’m not saying it’s not hard to be surrounded by people who have a lot more. I grew up that way - it sucks, but once you hit high school you realize your parents’ income is no reflection on you personally. A well rounded person should be able to make friends from all socioeconomic groups. Since you’re looking for merit and not financial aid, I’m assuming you’re upper middle class yourself. Statistics dictate that there will be far more people intimidated by your D’s wealth in this life than there are rich people by whom your D will be intimidated.</p>

<p>All that said, check out Ursinus. They offer great merit. I know several kids who go there (we’re local) and they are all very happy. Not a BMW owner among them. In fact, two of them don’t even live in single family homes. All the Ursinus kids I know are smart, with parents who earn too much for meaningful financial aid. </p>

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<p>The truth is…Most lower and middle class kids do NOT go away to college. They simply can’t afford it.</p>

<p>Even at my kids’ flagship, there are a good number of kids whose parents rather indulge them…nice cars, nice clothes, etc.</p>

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<p>Merit aid to a large percentage?? Merit if often directed to the upper 25% at the school…not most students. The range of merit can range from $5k to large amounts. </p>

<p>Keep in mind that merit just gets applied to NEED, so it may not make a school affordable.</p>

<p>Do you have safeties that you KNOW that you can afford for your child? These would be schools that you know FOR SURE that you have all costs covered with ASSURED merit or aid.</p>

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<p>These are great ideas. Thanks. And thanks for the article. I’m amazed at those percentages of Pell grants.</p>

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<p>Very true. Those are the rich kids I think my daughter would be comfortable around, as opposed to the kids at a University of Spoiled Children type school :slight_smile: I’m not saying it’s true about USC. I don’t know the school or the area at all, but that’s funny.</p>

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<p>I try to remind myself about that every day :slight_smile: Thanks for the reminder. I’m trying to use my experience in college and what I’m learning here to guide her, but I have no interest in convincing her to go to a school she’s not comfortable at.</p>

<p>I’ll check out that book. I’ve seen it mentioned before on here. Thanks.</p>

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<p>I’m going to use this approach. I’m not that concerned about it. I just don’t think she’d like it if a majority of the kids were from very wealthy families.</p>

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<p>I think I’m from a newly emerging class known as CSUMC - “Cash-Strapped Upper Middle Class” :slight_smile:
Most of the families around where I live probably make more than the median for the country, even after adjusting for the cost of living here, but nobody seems to have any money.</p>

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<p>Thanks, This is helpful. Grinnell keeps popping up when I’m looking at things different ways. I’m just not sure she’ll like the location.</p>

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<p>This is a great point, and something that I told my daughter early on. I think a good balance of kids would be best for her.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the reply. You make a lot of very good points. The lifestyle you describe as UMC sounds very much like the way people live in my area.</p>

<p>I’ve seen Ursinus mentioned a couple of times, but I haven’t looked into it. I’m going to add it to my list. Thanks.</p>

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<p>@mom2collegekids‌, you’re scaring me. Are you saying that my daughter won’t be eligible for merit aid if our EFC is equal to the whole cost of the college? That’s really bad news if that’s true.</p>

<p>Yes, I do have safeties in mind. It’s still very early, but I’m assuming she’ll have the grades to get into one of the better state schools in our state.</p>

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<p>Students driving late model BMW’s are just tools IMO… There is nothing impressive or intimidating about them since they likely didn’t purchase their cars with their own hard-earned money.</p>

<p>I don’t think your daughter will have a hard time fitting in anywhere she goes. It’s been my experience that college kids tend to be very liberal with regards to class differences (meaning it matters very little, if at all). </p>

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<p>No, you misinterpret what mom2 is saying, if you are full pay then merit helps. If you get need based aid, merit replaces need aid most places until all the need aid is gone. Except, they will usually let you reduce student loan first.</p>

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<p>Probably due to its past reputation before the relatively recent push to “upgrade” its students in an academic sense.</p>

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<p>National median household income is around $50,000 per year. For those with high school or college age kids, it is probably somewhere around $70,000.</p>