<p>Northwestern > Umich for ugrad. The student bodies at Umich are generally above average with a few geniuses. Northwestern kids are more at that level. Think of it as an SAT range where Umich is around 1900-2100 and Northwestern is more like 2000-2200. Sure you can find the 2100 kids at Umich and even the 2400 kids (if we're using SAT scores as a metaphor for quality of student body) but you'll just find more at NU.</p>
<p>Acceptedalready, the quality of the student body at Michigan is roughly equal to that at Northwestern. The SAT scores are roughly identical too, with the average Northwestern student outscoring the average Michigan student by 20-30 points on each section. For the class of 2010, here were some mid 50% ranges:</p>
<p>Critical reading:
Northwestrern: 650-730 (mean 690)
Michigan: 610-720 (mean 660)</p>
<p>Mathematics:
Northwestern: 660-750 (mean 710)
Michigan: 650-760 (mean 710)</p>
<p>Combined:
Northwestern 1320-1500 (mean 1410)
Michigan 1260-1480 (mean 1370)</p>
<p>Yes, Northwestern's numbers are slightly higher, but are they that much higher? Everything points to those schools having roughly equal student bodies and academics.</p>
<ol>
<li>University of Michigan at Ann Arbor<br></li>
<li>University of Wisconsin at Madison<br></li>
<li>Northwestern University<br></li>
<li>Pennsylvania State University<br></li>
<li>University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign<br></li>
<li>Michigan State University<br></li>
<li>Purdue University</li>
</ol>
<p>Wiscy is a GREAT school, but not better than NU....</p>
<p>UW's grad school>>NU. Nu may have better average students but UW has better average faculty and facilities, social life and school spirit.</p>
<p>Barrons,
I disagree that UW has a better faculty--in fact, that's a ridiculous assertion! I don't believe that it has better facilities--except for athletic facilities--however, I agree that it does have a better social life and school spirit.
And to say that UW's grad school is better than NU's--again, this is ridiculous. You'd have to evaluate program-by-program.
Clearly you went to Wisconsin... I appreciate your school spirit, and agree with you that it's a great school.</p>
<p>UW has far more NAS members (76 vs 38), wins more major faculty awards such as Guggenheims, they bring in far more competitive research grant money, and the rating by dept for faculty are better. Our library is much larger and our science facilities and labs are superior.</p>
<p>The Top 25 Research Universities in the U.S., 2002-2003 based on the depth and breadth of academic quality of programs
# of programs in
top 5 top 10 top 15 top 25
1.
Stanford University (66)
15
2
0
0 </p>
<ol>
<li><p>University of California , Berkeley (59)
12
3
1
0 </p></li>
<li><p>Harvard University (54)
9
5
0
3 </p></li>
<li><p>University of Michigan , Ann Arbor (49)
7
3
5
2 </p></li>
<li><p>Princeton University (48)
6
6
3
0 </p></li>
<li><p>Massachussetts Institute of Technology (43)
9
1
2
0 </p></li>
<li><p>Columbia University (40)
3
5
6
1 </p></li>
<li><p>Yale University (40)
5
4
2
5 </p></li>
<li><p>University of Chicago (39)
5
4
2
3 </p></li>
<li><p>Cornell University (38)
0
8
6
2 </p></li>
<li><p>University of California , Los Angeles (37)
1
5
7
4 </p></li>
<li><p>University of Wisconsin , Madison (34)
1
5
5
5 </p></li>
<li><p>California Institute of Technology (33)
6
2
1
0 </p></li>
<li><p>University of Texas , Austin (26)
0
2
7
6 </p></li>
<li><p>University of Illinois , Urbana-Champaign (24)
3
2
0
7 </p></li>
<li><p>University of Pennsylvania (23)
0
4
2
6 </p></li>
<li><p>Johns Hopkins University (22)
2
2
2
4 </p></li>
<li><p>Duke University (21)
1
2
3
5 </p></li>
<li><p>Northwestern University (21)
0
2
5
5</p></li>
</ol>
<p>LOL! I can't believe there's such a "debate". This is getting ridiculous.</p>
<p>Wisconsin is NOT under "CC Top Universities" but "Alphabetic List of Colleges"-->"W" on this site. ;)</p>
<p>I would like to assert that Wisconsin is a very good state school. But to say its professors are amazing is a misnomer since all big ten schools have stellar faculty. I have come to realize, just like one college professor once informed me, that the best education for undergraduate degree is a public state college since it teaches similar if not better concepts than presitigious colleges such as HYPS. This renowned psychologist, a graduate of Stanford, Illinois, and Illinois-Chicago told me that the only difference is when you get into graduate programs. So to compare Wisconsin with Stanford or Cal-Berekeley is useless for bachelors unless talking about grad. school.</p>
<p>70 Academic departments in the top 10 nationally. Over 100 departments in the top 20. So ridiculous that thousands of students from the state of Wisconsin and Minnesota turn down those "top CC schools" ... and many out-of-staters as well. Including myself.</p>
<p>Sam Lee, so ridiculous that you responded with.... no substance. So... :) yourself.</p>
<p>Since you, and others in this thread seem to quickly forget the stats thrown your way, I'm going to repeat it again:</p>
<p>70 Academic departments in the top 10 nationally. Over 100 departments in the top 20.</p>
<p>No, not all Big Ten schools are about equal in faculty. UW and UM bring in over $750 Million per year in research each. The rest are over $150 Million less. UM and UW each have over 70 NAS members and Illinois is next with 55 with the rest under 40. UW and UM average over 40 major faculty awards a year. The rest are under 30 except NU.</p>
<p>Michigan above Princeton, Yale, and MIT; Texas above Duke and Penn--in research; however, barrons, research does not equal "academics," nor faculty quality, unless you're changing the definition. :)</p>
<p>For example, I do not see Dartmouth on that list; will you argue, on the basis of this list, that UTexas and UIllinois have better "academics" and faculties than Dartmouth? Or perhaps these are just larger, more research-oriented universities? </p>
<p>NUs strengths lie largely in it's specialty schools, and programs like theater, etc. I.e. in programs that specialize in instruction rather than research.</p>
<p>Last time I checked Dartmouth, MIT etc were not in the Big Ten and have nothing to do with this. Dartmouth is a small school with few grad programs--NU is not.
I did not use the term academics--I said faculty and facilities and by most legit factual indicators the data speak for themselves. NU's President even said a few years ago that the faculty needs to compete better for research funds. If you are saying NU is great in Theater and Music, I'll agree.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So ridiculous that thousands of students from the state of Wisconsin and Minnesota turn down those "top CC schools" ... and many out-of-staters as well.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Stop kidding yourself if you think Wisc is even anywhere close in cross-admit battle if money isn't an issue or is better than Penn and Duke for undergrad. I bet Wisc has lots of NU rejects anyway. Oh, by your logic, I guess Dartmouth must be a poor school.</p>
<p>barron, as much as i have respect for Wisconsin (a bunch of my family attended and are successful), i feel like ur being nutz for even trying to say that Wisconsin is up to par w. Northwestern</p>
<p>look at Harvard Law, there are like 22 from Northwestern, from Wisconsin, 6</p>
<p>Wisconsin is like at least 3 X the size of northwestern......how do u account that northwestern beats it like by 4 x in terms of just students??????</p>
<p>Barrons, should I believe you don't know about the following stats? They are for UNDERGRADS.</p>
<ol>
<li>Undergraduate Recruiting at Vault's Top Six Consulting Firms
<a href="http://www.vault.com/nr/newsmain.jsp?nr_page=3&ch_id=252&article_id=14364421&cat_id=1223%5B/url%5D">http://www.vault.com/nr/newsmain.jsp?nr_page=3&ch_id=252&article_id=14364421&cat_id=1223</a></li>
</ol>
<p>Northwestern: 4 out of 6.
Wisconsin: 0 out of 6.</p>
<ol>
<li><p><a href="http://www.law.harvard.edu/admissions/jd/colleges.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.law.harvard.edu/admissions/jd/colleges.php</a>
Northwestern sent 22 students to Harvard law school for year 2005-06. Wisconsin sent 5 even though it's has a lot more students.</p></li>
<li><p><a href="http://www.classroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.classroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf</a>
Northwestern: 21st
Wisc: out of top-50</p></li>
</ol>
<p>What about closer to home: UChicago/Northwestern law (thanks to Alexandre for the data)?</p>
<p>University of Chicago Law:
Northwestern 29 (ties with UChicago as the most represented)
Wisc-Madision 11</p>
<p>Northwestern law:
Northwestern 18 (the most represented)
Wisc-Madison 4</p>
<p>Note: Wisc ug population is almost 4x bigger.</p>
<p>Sam Lee, in fairness to Wisconsin, you cannot compare Wisocnsin's enrollment data to Northwestern's when it comes to NU and Chicago graduate programs. They are each other's #1 and #2 feeder schools. Not even Harvard can compete.</p>
<p>I agree with Barrons post #46. You guys have been drinking the private-school Kool-Aid. What's next, a pair of Nikes and cutting off your....</p>