<p>You're very very right..which is why I applied to both...and then I can make my decision later... (if it comes up to the two of them, which it may or may not).</p>
<p>Well my countdown came to an abrupt end this morning. I'm international, and I'm in.</p>
<p>shoebox, your comment that both are 'excellent schools' is completeing misleading. I don't know what your benchmark of excellent is, but regardless, if Tech is excellent, Virginia by comparision is an even greater Shakespearean superlative.</p>
<p>Tech is good at engineering and average at every other discipline.</p>
<p>UVA is one of the best schools in the country.</p>
<p>shoebox10, I find it hard to believe that someone would transfer out of UVA to go to Tech just because he has to take more non-engineering classes at UVA. That just sounds crazy.</p>
<p>Upoh, congrats on getting in.</p>
<p>lets not beat around the bush. tech is to uva what michigan state is to umich. its not that its a bad school, but it honestly is just a mediocre university, that happens to have a decent engineering department. If virginia tech was just a mediocre state university, yet had say a caltech or olin quality engineering department, it would be a different story--but it doesn't. The fact that legitimate top students don't really consider tech a viable option is testament to that. i.e. its in the same league as a uconn, a university of delaware, an NC state. </p>
<p>maybe i'm overly critical, but it has to be said...its kinda of annoying to hear people pine for virginia tech. its where the vast majority of people in virginia who don't get into UVa go--simple as that.</p>
<p>Thanks, Globalist.</p>
<p>Congrats Upoh!</p>
<p>OVERALL
1. Massachusetts Inst. of Technology 4.8
2. Stanford University (CA) 4.7
2. University of California–Berkeley 4.7
4. California Institute of Technology 4.5
4. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign 4.5
6. Georgia Institute of Technology 4.4
6. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor 4.4
8. Carnegie Mellon University (PA) 4.3
8. Purdue University–West Lafayette 4.3
10. Cornell University 4.2
11. Princeton University (NJ) 4.1
11. University of Texas–Austin 4.1
13. University of Wisconsin–Madison 4.0
14. Johns Hopkins University 3.9
14. Northwestern University 3.9
14. Pennsylvania State University–University Park 3.9
17. Texas A&M University–College Station 3.8
<strong>17. Virginia Tech 3.8</strong>
19. Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 3.7
19. Rice University 3.7
19. University of California–Los Angeles 3.7
19. University of California–San Diego 3.7
19. University of Minnesota–Twin Cities 3.7
19. University of Washington 3.7</p>
<p>AEROSPACE ENGINEERING:
1. Massachusetts Institute of Technology
2. Georgia Institute of Technology
3. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
4. Purdue Univ.–West Lafayette
5. Stanford University
6. California Institute of Technology
7. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
8. Princeton University
9. University of Texas–Austin
10. University of Maryland–College Park
11. Texas A&M University–College Station
12. University of California–Berkeley
13. Cornell University
14. University of Washington
14. Pennsylvania State University–University Park
16. University of California–Los Angeles
<strong>16. Virginia Tech</strong>
18. University of Colorado–Boulder
19. University of Southern California</p>
<p>BIOMEDICAL ENGINEERING:
1. Johns Hopkins University
2. Duke University
3. University of California–San Diego
4. Georgia Institute of Technology
4. Massachusetts Institute of Technology
6. University of Pennsylvania
7. Case Western Reserve University
8. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
9. Boston University
10. University of Washington
11. Rice University
12. Northwestern University
12. University of California–Berkeley
14. Stanford University
15. Vanderbilt University
16. Washington University in St. Louis
17. University of Wisconsin–Madison
17. University of Virginia
19. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
19. University of Texas–Austin</p>
<p>CHEMICAL ENGINEERING:
1. Massachusetts Institute of Technology
2. University of California–Berkeley
3. University of Minnesota–Twin Cities
4. University of Wisconsin–Madison
5. Stanford University
6. California Institute of Technology
6. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
8. University of Texas–Austin
9. Princeton University
10. Georgia Institute of Technology
11. University of Delaware
12. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
13. Purdue Univ.–West Lafayette
14. Cornell University
15. Carnegie Mellon University
16. University of California–Santa Barbara
17. University of Washington
17. Northwestern University
19. University of Pennsylvania
19. Pennsylvania State University–University Park</p>
<p>CIVIL ENGINEERING:
1. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
2. University of California–Berkeley
3. Georgia Institute of Technology
4. University of Texas–Austin
4. Stanford University
4. Massachusetts Institute of Technology
7. Purdue University–West Lafayette
8. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
9. Cornell University
10. Texas A&M University–College Station
<strong>11. Virginia Tech</strong>
12. Carnegie Mellon University
13. Northwestern University
14. University of Wisconsin–Madison
15. Pennsylvania State University–University Park
16. Johns Hopkins University
17. California Institute of Technology
17. University of Washington
19. University of Colorado–Boulder
19. University of Minnesota–Twin Cities</p>
<p>COMPUTER ENGINEERING
1. Massachusetts Institute of Technology
2. Stanford University
3. Carnegie Mellon University
4. University of California–Berkeley
5. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
6. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
7. Georgia Institute of Technology
8. University of Texas–Austin
9. Cornell University
10. California Institute of Technology
11. Purdue University–West Lafayette
12. Princeton University
13. University of Washington
14. University of Wisconsin–Madison
15. Duke University
16. University of California–Los Angeles
17. Northwestern University
17. University of Maryland–College Park
17. Johns Hopkins University
20. University of California–San Diego
21. Texas A&M University–College Station
21. Rice University</p>
<p>ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING:
1. Massachusetts Institute of Technology
2. Stanford University
3. University of California–Berkeley
4. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
5. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
6. Georgia Institute of Technology
7. California Institute of Technology
8. Carnegie Mellon University
9. Purdue University–West Lafayette
10. Cornell University
11. University of Texas–Austin
12. Princeton University
13. University of California–Los Angeles
14. University of Wisconsin–Madison
15. Northwestern University
15. Rice University
17. University of California–San Diego
17. Johns Hopkins University
17. University of Southern California
<strong>20. Virginia Tech</strong></p>
<p>ENGINEERING PHYSICS:
1. Cornell University
2. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
3. Stanford University
4. Harvard University
4. Princeton University
6. University of California–Berkeley
6. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
6. California Institute of Technology
9. Yale University
9. Pennsylvania State University–University Park</p>
<p>ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEERING:
1. Stanford University
2. Massachusetts Institute of Technology
3. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
3. Johns Hopkins University
5. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
6. University of Texas–Austin
6. University of California–Berkeley
8. California Institute of Technology
9. Cornell University
10. University of Florida
<strong>11. Virginia Tech</strong>
11. Northwestern University
13. Carnegie Mellon University
13. Duke University
15. Rice University
15. Pennsylvania State University–University Park
15. University of Wisconsin–Madison
18. University of California–Los Angeles
18. Yale University</p>
<p>INDUSTRIAL ENGINEERING:
1. Georgia Institute of Technology
2. Purdue University–West Lafayette
3. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
4. Pennsylvania State University–University Park
5. University of California–Berkeley
6. Texas A&M University–College Station
<strong>7. Virginia Tech</strong>
8. Northwestern University
8. Stanford University
10. University of Wisconsin–Madison
11. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
12. Massachusetts Institute of Technology
13. Cornell University
14. North Carolina State University–Raleigh
15. Columbia University
16. Ohio State University–Columbus
17. University of Florida
18. University of Southern California</p>
<p>MATERIALS:
1. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
2. University of California–Berkeley
2. Massachusetts Institute of Technology
4. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
5. Stanford University
5. Northwestern University
7. Cornell University
8. Pennsylvania State University–University Park
9. Georgia Institute of Technology
10. University of Florida
11. Carnegie Mellon University
12. Ohio State University–Columbus
13. University of California–Santa Barbara
13. Purdue University–West Lafayette
15. University of Texas–Austin
15. University of Pennsylvania
17. University of California–Los Angeles</p>
<p>MECHANICAL ENGINEERING
1. Massachusetts Inst. of Technology
2. University of California–Berkeley
3. Stanford University
4. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
5. University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
6. Georgia Institute of Technology
7. Purdue University–West Lafayette
8. Cornell University
9. California Institute of Technology
10. University of Texas–Austin
11. Pennsylvania State University–University Park
12. Carnegie Mellon University
13. Princeton University
14. University of Minnesota–Twin Cities
<strong>15. Virginia Tech</strong>
16. Texas A&M University–College Station
17. Northwestern University
18. University of Wisconsin–Madison
19. University of California–San Diego
19. Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute</p>
<p>Now, tell me again that VT engineering sucks. Because from what I see, UVA is on here once, for their best engineering program probably: biomedical. That program at UVA is incredible, and if I had more interest in bio, i'd be fighting to get into that program. But look at the types of schools VT ranks above (in certain categories, im not saying overall): CMU, Northwestern, Wisconsin, USC, Rice, UCLA, Duke, Yale, Texas A&M...heck, in industrial engineering, VT even ranks above Cornell, MIT, and Standford.
So, yes, UVA is the better school overall. But i've had professors/deans at UVA-SEAS look suprised when I say I want to transfer to UVA's engineering. One Dean actually told me flat out that I should know i'm moving to a much smaller, much less ranked, and less funded engineering department.</p>
<p>And for those of you that are going to say "Well rankings are peer-assessed". Okay, so every other school in this country thinks VT is a great engineering school. But comeon, its fairly easy to admit VT is the lesser university. But in terms of engineering, VT has the upper hand.</p>
<p>Then again, UVA's engineering dept is still very good, and is on a huge rise. I think in 5 years, it'll be in the top 20 maybe, as long as it stays on its current path. Hopefully i'll be there when it happens =)</p>
<p>My friends say say University of Arizona isn't a good school (solely based off the fact its easy to get into) but its math, science, and business programs are top notch. While people say VT grads make less on average compared to UVA, look at the student bodies coming in. Obvioulsy a school that accepts only top students is going to have more successful grads. It all comes down to the individual and if the individual is more hard working then he or she will do better.</p>
<p>Interesting thread contrasting VT and UVA - my S applied to both (engineering). I don't know what his final decision will be (haven't found out UVA decision yet) - he applied to UVA b/c his grandfather and uncle practically shoved it down his throat. Although he really liked UVA alot when he visited, he liked the fact that VT offered more major choices in the engineering field. Sometimes, your choice of major is the deciding factor between two obviously great schools.</p>
<p>It really is too bad that so many people like to bash other schools for whatever reasons - academics, location, male/female looks, the party scene or lack of it.....the list goes on and on. Ultimately there is a school for everyone so live and let live.</p>
<p>Zimmer 07, your comments are well taken... Many ppl also forget that the same students who get into UVA and VT decide to attend elsewhere. There are other fine schools out there that can offer students great opportunities.</p>
<p>shoebox,</p>
<p>i don't believe i or anyone else ever said that virginia tech had a bad engineering department. It doesn't. It has a good engineering department. But lets not be naive here. And it certainly is a viable option if you wish to go into engineering. However, you're deluding yourself if you think that people are picking virginia tech over "CMU, Northwestern, Wisconsin, USC, Rice, UCLA, Duke, Yale...heck, in industrial engineering, VT even ranks above Cornell, MIT, and Standford" unless they can't afford it.</p>
<p>shoebox, thank you for your level-headed, well supported, honest replies. Your comments about the well roundedness of a UVa engineer versus the specificity of a Tech engineer were quite similar to what I was saying.</p>
<p>jags, all I can say is that I am sorry you feel that way about such a strong program, and that you embody the stereotypical UVa student. After visiting the school and talking with a bunch of people there, I didn't get the pompous, elitist attitude that I had been so warned about, but its good to see that UVa still has people keeping that alive. :-)</p>
<p>feel what way? i think virginia tech is an average school...and it is. whats there to be sorry about? it has nothing to do with being elitest</p>
<p>ehiunno, jags isn't being pompous or elitist at all. It appears that you and shoebox are not familiar with academia, job recruiting or what rankings really mean. It's also obvious that you haven't been in college. </p>
<p>Look, VT has a very strong engineering school, but the rankings you see are for their graduate programs and are based primarily on faculty research and size, inter alia. VT produces many fine engineers at the UG level, but you don't have a leg to stand on if you're going to try to claim that VT produces better engineers than schools like UVA and Duke or that the education there is better at the undergraduate level. It's indisputable that students at UVA and Duke are more talented. It's also indisputable that class sizes are smaller and there is more faculty attention at UVA and Duke. So how exactly is VT better? Does taking a 500 person statics class with a well-known professor at VT give you a deeper knowledge of the subject than a Duke student who took a 50 person statics class with a professor who has a PhD from the same school as the VT professor? I think what you're failing to understand is that rankings for departmental areas are <em>huge</em> at the graduate level but significantly less meaningful at the undergraduate level. </p>
<p>There's this notion out there that schools like VT produce more "pure engineers" while schools like UVA and Duke produce engineers with broad, less focused talents. Do you really believe that's true, or are you just repeating something that a (clueless) guidance counselor or (clueless) teacher told you? The courses engineer takes at any school are more or less the same. It's true that VT likely produces more career engineers, but UVA engineers tend to do other things because they can. </p>
<p>So let me ask you: would you rather take those courses at a school with smaller class sizes, more faculty attention, smarter peers and better, more broad job recruiting? Or would you rather follow graduate rankings and end up with a suboptimal outcome? It's a nice feather in the VT student's cap to say that UVA's good in "liberal arts" but VT is better in engineering (and that may be so if you want a PhD in EE or mechE), but at the undergraduate level, you should always choose based on school prestige and personal factors.</p>
<p>Sorry to talk down to you like that, but someone had to do it. And please, don't come away from this thinking that we're being "stereotypical UVa students" with "elitist attitudes". Try to bring a similar argument to any other top school's forum on CC and you'll probably get a similar response. </p>
<p>edit: I used Duke as an example because it's another university that is much more highly regarded than VT but has a lower-ranked engineering program. I could have also used Yale, Harvard, Dartmouth, Vanderbilt...</p>
<p>I thought this was supposed to be the Countdown Thread...I'm so nervous!!</p>
<p>^ I know lol</p>
<p>Cav,</p>
<p>I must say that the students in VT's engineering program are often 'more talented.' I know a number of very talented engineers that have chosen VT engineering over UVa engineering, but I have not met a single one that has gone the other way around. I do, however, know many UVa engineering students that had no interest in engineering before they got there, even some that are supposed to be their best who only applied to eschool at UVa and not at any other school. I haven't seen that passion for design or research at UVa that I have at VT.</p>
<p>For a student like myself, who plans on pursuing a PhD after college, the popularity of professors in their fields and the amount of well funded, well known, important research projects that I can get involved with at the UG level are very important, especially when applying to a top PhD program. In a sense, the quality of the grad school is then key for getting good research as an undergrad</p>
<p>"It's true that VT likely produces more career engineers, but UVA engineers tend to do other things because they can. "</p>
<p>I disagree, I know many strong engineers that coudl easily do other things but don't because of the aforementioned passion for engineering that they have. They scoff at becoming engineering managers and would gladly give up the possible salary increase to do what they love. In fact, almost every good scientist could do just that, but they don't.</p>
<p>"but at the undergraduate level, you should always choose based on school prestige and personal factors."</p>
<p>I hate to say it, but UVa is not as prestigious as tech for engineering. It just isn't. Even for the sciences I have heard that they are treated about equally. For anything else, UVa has the clear upper hand and the vastly more talented students.</p>
<p>Saying you should go to school only on prestige would like saying your better off at Yale for engineering than Georgia Tech. Yale's engineering program is sub-par, and every serious engineering college or firm knows that. Georgia Tech has an absolutely fantastic engineering program at the grad and ug level, but their English program and overall prestige aren't nearly that of Yale, so why would anyone want to go to GIT? There is more to college decisions than prestige.</p>
<p>but yeah, your right, I do want a PhD in EE, so I probably approach the decision differently than a lot of people who are interested in engineering. So I will give you that one.</p>
<p>You all want to see something really scary:</p>
<p>its amazing how clueless some people are.</p>
<p>"Saying you should go to school only on prestige would like saying your better off at Yale for engineering than Georgia Tech. Yale's engineering program is sub-par, and every serious engineering college or firm knows that. Georgia Tech has an absolutely fantastic engineering program at the grad and ug level, but their English program and overall prestige aren't nearly that of Yale, so why would anyone want to go to GIT? There is more to college decisions than prestige."</p>
<p>anybody who chooses georgia tech over yale for anything with regards to undergrad (and imo, grad also) is a moron--and shouldn't have gotten into yale.</p>
<p>I'm willing to guarrentee you, that when it comes to getting a job out of college, a crappy yale graduate will get a superior job to a crappy virginia tech graduate, an average yale graduate will get a superior job to an average tech graduate, and a top yale grad will get a better job than a top tech grad.</p>