Course Rigor Question

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Michigan
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<p>The guy with 2/2 could have self-studied APs, he could have taken local CC classes, he could have taken classes online, but he didn’t. It’s not reasonable to expect that someone who goes to a high school which offers 12 APs can really take all 12. Many schools only allow them to be taken junior and senior years, and that would mean 6 a year, which is an extrememly heavy courseload. </p>

<p>By your logic, someone who took 0 APs and 0 honors classes at a school that didn’t offer any would have the upper hand over someone who was unable to take every single AP their school offered due to a schedule conflict. Just not reasonable. Schools in addition to wanting to graduate most of their students, want most to go to college. If it would increase their students chances of going to college, they wouldn’t offer any APs or honors classes. They’d make everyone take the same stupid classes. Since they don’t do that, it clearly doesn’t work that way.</p>

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<p>^ thank you for that response. That’s what I’ve been trying to explain.</p>

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<p>Entertainer wrote:</p>

<p>"So what happens when a school offers 20 or more AP classes?</p>

<p>Are you supposed to take 20/20 AP classes in order to be on par with a student that only took 2/2 AP classes?</p>

<p>I’m just wondering if you can clarify these questions for me. The principles are the same. "</p>

<p>Qwertykey replied:</p>

<p>"So what happens when a school offers 20 or more AP classes?</p>

<p>Are you supposed to take 20/20 AP classes in order to be on par with a student that only took 2/2 AP classes?</p>

<p>I’m just wondering if you can clarify these questions for me. The principles are the same. "</p>

<p>Followed by Entertainer’s:</p>

<p>“^ thank you for that response. That’s what I’ve been trying to explain.”</p>

<p>Classic example of people who only a part of college admission and think they know everything and a perfect example of ignorant people here on CC giving advices. </p>

<p>Now allow me to answer Entertainer’s question and crack down Qwertykey’s argument:</p>

<p>“So what happens when a school offers 20 or more AP classes?”</p>

<p>I thought you said you knew that counselors send a HS profile. In that profile, many schools explain their course-selection policy. A school that offers 20 APs but only allow students to take 9 APs explains this in the HS profile. In that case, a student who has 9 APs will received the “most rigorous” check, and competes on common ground against someone with 2/2 APs. However, if the student took say, 5/20 when the school puts a cap at 9, he may get the “very rigorous” check and is at a disadvantage relative to the 2/2.</p>

<p>Now Qwertykey,</p>

<p>“The guy with 2/2 could have self-studied APs, he could have taken local CC classes, he could have taken classes online, but he didn’t.”</p>

<p>We are not talking about self-studying APs (even if we are, I can use this argument to say that the person with 9/12 can also study on his own). We are assuming everything else is equal.</p>

<p>"By your logic, someone who took 0 APs and 0 honors classes at a school that didn’t offer any would have the upper hand over someone who was unable to take every single AP their school offered due to a schedule conflict. Just not reasonable. Schools in addition to wanting to graduate most of their students, want most to go to college. If it would increase their students chances of going to college, they wouldn’t offer any APs or honors classes. They’d make everyone take the same stupid classes. Since they don’t do that, it clearly doesn’t work that way. "</p>

<p>That is not my logic. If a student took 0 honors/APs, then everything comes down to whether or not he exhausted the resources available to him. For example, if his school has 15 math courses, did he exhaust the school’s math resources?</p>

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<p>To yosup: that’s not what you said before. Having an advantage in the course rigor section is NOT the same as having an advantage in admissions, as you stated. 2/2 having an advantage over 9/12 in course rigor is obvious, but you originally stated that 2/2 has an advantage in ADMISSIONS. That is a huge difference, the former I agree with and the latter I don’t. There’s obviously no changing anyone’s opinion, so I’ll leave it at that.</p>

<p>And to Number, if you read what you quoted from me, you’ll see my point was this: yosup hasn’t gone through the whole process. This isn’t the time between mailing the app and getting a response. This is beginning of senior year to completion of the application. Everyone, take yourself back to before you talked to your counselor or teachers about recs and you’ve probably just started looking at the app(lets say August). If you claim you know as much as you do now, as you did then, so be it. These small things are part of the process and are things to be learn through experience. This is the same thing as saying “75% of people at Michigan are dumb” by going through stats.</p>

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<p>^ Well if we’re leaving everything else out wouldn’t having an advantage in course rigor give you an advantage in the overall process? True, the guy with 9 APs probably went to a much more well known high school, and probably got higher test scores, etc. that could give him an edge and give him a higher chance of admissions. But lets say the 2 had the same test scores, same ECs, same gpa, and both went to 2 schools that were both public, and not really well known. The only difference is 1 school offers 2 APs, and the other offers 12, I think the guy with 2/2 would have an advantage in the class rigor section, which would lead to him having an advantage in the overall admissions than the guy with 9/12.</p>

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<p>yosup, you don’t go to UM, you haven’t gone throught the process of applying yet, you don’t have any clue. It may be an educated guess, but you really don’t have any idea. And it isn’t a make or break.</p>

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<p>"yosup hasn’t gone through the whole process. This isn’t the time between mailing the app and getting a response. This is beginning of senior year to completion of the application. Everyone, take yourself back to before you talked to your counselor or teachers about recs and you’ve probably just started looking at the app(lets say August). If you claim you know as much as you do now, as you did then, so be it. These small things are part of the process and are things to be learn through experience. This is the same thing as saying “75% of people at Michigan are dumb” by going through stats. "</p>

<p>and jrt336’s </p>

<p>“yosup, you don’t go to UM, you haven’t gone throught the process of applying yet, you don’t have any clue. It may be an educated guess, but you really don’t have any idea. And it isn’t a make or break.”</p>

<p>Just because yosup didn’t go through the process of applying does not mean he doesn’t know more about college admissions than people who have. I assure you, sophomores in my HS know more about college admissions than many college kids who went through the process. For example, if you ask any sophomore in my HS what academic index or numeric index is, 9 out of 10 that sophomore will be able to tell you what that is, whereas I assure you majority of the people on CC who are in college never heard of academic index and numeric index until they read this post, even if they attend the schools that uses the two indexes.</p>

<p>"yosup, you don’t go to UM, you haven’t gone throught the process of applying yet, you don’t have any clue. It may be an educated guess, but you really don’t have any idea. And it isn’t a make or break. "</p>

<p>I’m curious, jrt336, druing which part of your process of applying to college in your senior year does it tell you whether it is better to take 2/2 APs or 9/12 APs?</p>

<p>PS. To Pistons, I consider myself better than 99% of UMich students stats and ECs wise.</p>

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<p>Number 1, how do you view honors classes? And do you think my CC classes will make up for my lost APs?</p>

<p>Any idea on overall chances?</p>

<p>(Not siding with ANYONE here, just want to get full spectrum of opinions)</p>

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<p>I’m curious, jrt336, druing which part of your process of applying to college in your senior year does it tell you whether it is better to take 2/2 APs or 9/12 APs?</p>

<p>Want to re-phrase that? I don’t see what this has to do with what I said. The reality is no one knows if it matters or not. Most likely not though.</p>

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<p>yosup: again, these are just fundamental differences that we will never see eye to eye on. You are saying the only difference between [2/2 and “most rigorous”] and [9/12 and “very rigorous”] are the classifications. I also see NINE vs TWO, in addition to your claims. Small difference, yeah, but difference nonetheless.</p>

<p>number: again, talking about the UM admissions process in the most basic sense. Throw out the Ivy league stuff, because your points are misguided but valid: you know more about Ivys than I do. I only applied to one on a whim whereas you’ve stated (repeatedly) your benefits. However we probably know about the same about UM admissions as each other. Like I said, your process may have been different, but if you take the time from pre-recs and pre-app to post-recs and post-app, generally people will know more about the process.</p>

<p>And also about the stats thing. I think (not sure) I’m better than 70-80% stats wise than most of UM. However, I can honestly say I don’t feel any sense of superiority over these people because of my stats (intelligence, as people, etc). The kid with the best “stats” in my house last year was the biggest idiot and pothead I’ve ever met and bragged about getting a 2300+ while high. Again, just fundamental differences we will never agree on.</p>

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<p>hmmmmmmmm, you should check out this thread:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-michigan-ann-arbor/759714-how-am-i-looking-oos-feeling-unconfident.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-michigan-ann-arbor/759714-how-am-i-looking-oos-feeling-unconfident.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Seriously though, why do you want to hear so badly that you won’t get in, when everyone seems to think you will?</p>

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<p>^Haha, yeah I know I’m getting annoying, but bear with me. </p>

<p>If I get deferred early on, my morale would seriously be gone. I don’t want to offend UMich in any way (one of my top , but if I end up deferred, it wouldn’t be the same as getting deferred from Stanford or Yale. I would seriously start to doubt my chances EVERYWHERE, whether that’s logically justifed or not. I tend to get irrationally paranoid when I’m let down, even more so than usual (and you can already see how that is).</p>

<p>In any case, sorry I’m acting irrationally nervous. Maybe I’m just seeing holes in my app that just aren’t there…but then again, maybe you’re all just missing millions of holes that really are…we’ll see…</p>

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<p>“Number 1, how do you view honors classes? And do you think my CC classes will make up for my lost APs?”</p>

<p>Take honor classes if 1. if the AP class for the subject will kill your grade and your rank (remember rank and GPA/SAT are the MOST important. Your academics count approx. 50%. The pie graph can be found in “Making it into a Top College” written by Greenes’ guide). 2. If no APs are offered in the topic.</p>

<p>As for CC classes, I think its smart to pursue them because it shows that you not only tried to exhaust the resources available to you at your HS, but you also went above and beyond and sought more challenges.</p>

<p>"Want to re-phrase that? I don’t see what this has to do with what I said. The reality is no one knows if it matters or not. Most likely not though. "</p>

<p>jrt336, you wrote: </p>

<p>“yosup, you don’t go to UM, you haven’t gone throught the process of applying yet, you don’t have any clue. It may be an educated guess, but you really don’t have any idea. And it isn’t a make or break.”</p>

<p>You make it sound like just because you went through the process you know more than people who didn’t go through the process. That is not true. For most people, what they learn about college admission by going through the application process is nothing more than operating experiences. For example, how to organize the apps, financial aid, etc. There is no part of the applying process that teaches you things like whether 2/2 is better than 9/12, the main point of this thread. Therefore, your attempt to make you look more experienced than yosup failed. You do not know more than people who have not undergone the application process except you have more experience in the operational area, but that is irrelevant. For example, I bet you don’t know what numeric index is, let alone how to calculate it (don’t bother googling this. This index is a highly secretive formula known to very few people, i.e. Me).</p>

<p>“Like I said, your process may have been different, but if you take the time from pre-recs and pre-app to post-recs and post-app, generally people will know more about the process.”</p>

<p>The reason I believe most current sophs and juniors don’t know as much as yosup is because rather than agreeing with college kids (who as you claim spent more time on college admissions than pre-app), he actually argued to the contrary and was able to back it up with reasonable explanations, ones that I know are true from my experiences. The fact that he argued contrary to seemingly more “experienced people” tells me that this kid know what he’s talking about.</p>

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<p>LOL, you hear that everyone, Number 1 has discovered the top secret highly classified “numeric index”!!! I beg of you, share your secret wisdom with us!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:</p>

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<p>“LOL, you hear that everyone, Number 1 has discovered the top secret highly classified “numeric index”!!! I beg of you, share your secret wisdom with us!!!”</p>

<p>Numeric index was supposed to be an example that shows that the people here claiming they know more don’t. I don’t want to turn this into another war so I don’t recommend you talk to me in that kind of sarcastic tone again as I will not reply nicely next time.</p>