Course selection, etc.

Parents Forum
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<p>I've been reading the "scratching head" thread and realize that I'm even more clueless than I had thought. ZS is going to pick her classes soon for junior year and I feel paralyzed. GC assistance will not be forthcoming. I have to know what to ask for and I don't. She's in an IB program. Here's what it looks like (but not written in stone):</p>

<p>4 years of Italian though HL one year of latin (not AP)</p>

<p>math is questionable. She'd be through Algebra II in school, with statistics and pre-calc at the community college. Not sure if that is enough.</p>

<p>History is Global for the regents, AP Euro, then History of the Americas HL</p>

<p>Science is also questionable. Regents bio, regents chem (school doesn't allow AP before regents), then IB Bio SL, possibly IB Physics SL but not sure. How essential would that Physics be? She hates chem with a raging passion.</p>

<p>English is four good years of an excellent pre and IB program and planning to take AP literature</p>

<p>She hopes very much (and I plan to push for her to get a seat) to take AP Art History as an elective.</p>

<p>Ok, so what am I missing for a potential classics major?</p>

<p>Also, I was reading the Latin/Greek thread and I'm very envious of a school
that offers so much. Zs's school offers one year of non-AP Latin and no Greek. I wonder if that will be a problem. Should we look at the community college where she will have taken psychology, sociology, communications, stats, pre-calc and literature?</p>

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<p>My younger son hated chemstry, but enjoys physics, so I would encourage your daughter to take physics. I really think colleges like to see a year of bio, chem and physics. I think having pre-calc covered is enough, but I'd encourage your daughter to take calculus if she thinks she can get at least a B. But given that she's had statistics as well as pre-calc. I think she's in decent shape. </p>

<p>I really don't think your potential major matters in terms of what courses you take in high school. I think it's more important to cover the basics. If you've got room demonstrate your interests with electives or going beyond the minimal requirements.</p>

<p>I think a college prep curriculum should cover.</p>

<p>4 years of English
4 years of Math (min. through pre-calc, better through calculus)
3 years of science (bio, chem, physics)
Global and US History (in NY this means 3 years)
3 years of Foreign language, preferably 4
1 year of Art/Music etc</p>

<p>APs or HL courses in their areas of interests, electives in their areas of interest</p>

<p>If she's really interested in classics she might want to look elsewhere, not to for college applications, but because it will get her to the more interesting classics courses quicker once she's in college.</p>

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<p>Here is an experiment -
Look at what she is likely to take this year and then pretend she is applying to UCLA or Berkeley. Go to the UC admissions site - it is very automated, computerized. Start working on an application. If you never submit it, you never have to pay anything, and eventually it deletes itself. See if what she will have had by the end of Junior year is good enough for Berkeley - it will tell you explicitly. If it is, you are fine.</p>

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<p>My son is no lover of math, but he felt he needed to take AP Calc to be considered at his reachier schools. I think he was right.</p>

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<p>You guys give great info. THanks!</p>

<p>Bethie, how high is "reachier?" I don't think ZS will be able to take AP calc because she came out of a small parochial school and is on a track that won't get her that far, which is why she has to take a couple of maths at community college. I think the reachiest reach she would even look at is Bryn Mawr and being risk adverse, she will have to be urged to apply even that high.</p>

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<p>If your daughter is in a full IB diploma program, she is going to need some calculus because there is now calculus on all the IB math exams, including SL Math Studies (the test taken by people who are no good at math). The amount of calculus on the exam is small, and the sophistication is very low, but there is some calculus included.</p>

<p>Also, IB rules require that a student be taking a course in a subject during the year when they take the exam in the subject (although it need not be an IB course). Thus, your daughter must be taking a math course of some sort, at her school, in the year when she takes her IB math exam. At my daughter's IB school, numerous kids took their IB math exam the year they took AP AB or BC calculus, which are not IB courses, and there was no problem. But they had to be taking some kind of math.</p>

<p>I am assuming that your daughter's six exam subjects will be English HL, History of the Americas HL, Italian HL, either Math or Math Studies SL, Biology SL, and Physics SL. Is that right? </p>

<p>From the IB point of view, she could take something other than Physics, at the SL level, as her sixth subject. But colleges usually do want to see all three of the basic sciences, biology, chemistry, and physics, on a high school transcript. My daughter, who was an IB diploma candidate and had no interest in physics, took the easiest physics course she could find outside the IB program (Honors Physics, which is really Physics for Idiots in a school where all the people who like math and science take either IB or AP physics) and took something else as her sixth subject. But if your daughter is trying to create room in her schedule for AP Art History, she may not have room for a stray non-IB physics course.</p>

<p>Your GCs may be useless, but isn't there an IB coordinator who could help your daughter with course selections?</p>

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<p>"including SL Math Studies (the test taken by people who are no good at math). The amount of calculus on the exam is small, and the sophistication is very low, but there is some calculus included."</p>

<p>I did not know that calculus was on the SL Math Studies, thank you! Will that math course be far enough for colleges, do you think?</p>

<p>The IB coordinator isn't particularly open to answering questions and likely wouldn't help a specific child choose class placement. That's a good tip about physics. The good thing about my daughter's school is that it's an 11 period day in which most kids take 7 classes, but lunch could be dropped or something extra simply added, so there is flexibility if one knows what to ask for.</p>

<p>I think you got the course list right, but she has to have an elective each year which will be Latin next year and (hopefully) AP Art History in senior year. Thanks again.</p>

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<p>Colleges don't require calculus for admission (except in a very few instances, mostly for Engineering students). Your daughter needs more calculus to pass the IB SL Math Studies exam than she does for college admission. The addition of some calculus to all the IB math exams happened only recently (maybe 2 or 3 years ago). Your IB coordinator should know about it, but I suppose it's possible that he/she doesn't.</p>

<p>Any IB coordinator worthy of the name should be able to advise your daughter on what math courses she needs to take to pass the IB SL Math Studies exam. Whether the IB coordinator can advise her on whether or not to take physics is another matter. That isn't specific to IB.</p>

<p>In my daughter's school, the IB coordinator made sure that every kid in the IB program took all the courses they needed to get their IB diplomas. I find it hard to imagine how an IB program could function without the kids getting this kind of help.</p>

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<p>"In my daughter's school, the IB coordinator made sure that every kid in the IB program took all the courses they needed to get their IB diplomas. I find it hard to imagine how an IB program could function without the kids getting this kind of help."</p>

<p>I think she definitely does, maybe I was mentally splitting something that shouldn't have been because I didn't think it through that way. My daughter is also in a tiny bit of a different circumstance because most of the kids came out of public school and have a slightly different track. It's not that the coordinator isn't helpful, she is. I just didn't know what to ask.</p>

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<p>sorry, midwestmom, but the UC website is not a great help for admissions to Cal nor UCLA, since it only identifies the minimum UC requirements.</p>

<p>z-mom: AP physics requires a good knowledge of Pre-calc, and is losta math, particularly first semester. (Newtonian mechanics can be a difficult concept for some.) If she can, take AP Art History before Euro, since the Art-H background makes the Euro Renassiance much easier, according to our Euro teacher (who is also a CB AP test grader).</p>

<p>btw: UChicago has a great summer program that goes to Greece!</p>

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<p>ZooserD doesn't need to take AP Physics, though sophomores in our high school take AP Physics B which they take concurrently with Math B (or Algebra 2 starting next year.) She should not take AP Physics C which does require calculus.</p>

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<p>His reachier schools were Pomona, Vassar, Carleton, Haverford and Oberlin in terms of acceptance rates. I consider these schools reaches for anyone. If you remember the andison story, he had sky high stats and ECs and didn't get into Oberlin, Wash U or Swarthmore. We're discussing the factor of financial need on another thread, so that's something to think of when deciding how wide a net to cast. </p>

<p>His "matches" were probably Reed, Grinnell and Macalester. Then he had 2 "safeties", Lewis & Clark and Goucher. Technically, my son was a potential match anywhere, but you never know. Pomona only accepted 15% last year. He erred on the side of safety, both in his list and his course selection. Gap years can be a great thing, but he wanted choices.</p>

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<p>Zoosermom</p>

<p>Even though your D is taking an IB course load if she is attending a NYC public school, you must make certain that she is meeting the requirements to obtain a high school diploma in accordance with the chancellor's regs. This includes:</p>

<p>8 credits of English
8 Credits of Social Studies (4 terms of global, U.S. History 1 & 2, Participation in Government & Economics)
6 credits of Math
6 Credits of Science , 4 which must be lab sciences
2 credits of art/ music or any combination of both
2 terms of foreign language
7 elective credits
7 terms of Physical Education
1 term of health</p>

<p>She must also pass the following regents exams:</p>

<p>English (which will probably be taken in junior year)
Global History (which she will probably take in June)
1 Science (Earth science, bio, chem or physics)
U.S. History
Math A</p>

<p>A regents diploma will be given based on a passing grade of 65+ in all exams.</p>

<p>For an advanced regents diploma she will need to complete:</p>

<p>1 extra science regents exam (IMHO, if she is doing bio, chem physics, then she should have regents grades for those exams).
1 Math B Regents
1 foreign Language regents </p>

<p>I also think that coming out of a NYS school and specifically a NYC public high school, the regents may end up holding more weight than an IB diploma because the regents will be the standard that all students in the state must complete. Make sure that there is some balance that she does not "sacrifice" the IB standing for a top notch regents score.</p>

<p>That being said I think she should try to obtain a Regents diploma with advanced designation with honors. To earn honors, a student shall achieve an average of 90 per cent in all Regents examinations.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/part100/pages/1005b.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/part100/pages/1005b.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>I guess it says something that we considered Oberlin a reach, even with significant legacy and my son's stellar qualifications, and andison's GC said he could consider Oberlin a safety. Well our GC said the same thing because of legacy, but I still insisted DS needed a safer safety or two, specifically because I'd read the andison story. Again, we erred on the side of safety, but it felt good.</p>

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<p>Sybbie, even though my oldest graduated last year with an advanced Regent's "with honors" I had no idea why he'd gotten that designation! I would say anyone who has gotten a NYS Advanced Regent's high school diploma has covered the bases for college admissions. For the selective schools you'll want to throw in some AP level courses in addition.</p>

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<p>I totally agree...</p>

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<p>Thank you all again so much. She's in good shape on the regents, but we have to fill out the form for next semester soon, so I wanted to get ideas of things we should look for.</p>

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<p>Zooser, your daughter’s outlook sounds a lot like where my son was back in highschool. He also did the full IB – with highers in English, History and Art. He completed his math and science requirements in grade 11 and concentrated his senior year on art/culture related electives. His high school didn’t offer art history so he focused on what was available even though it wasn’t in the IB/AP curriculum at his school: creative writing, religion, stuff like that.</p>

<p>Having no math OR science senior year was risky, but he was accepted by a highly selective college, I think because of his focus on art and art history not in spite of it. The irony of the situation is that although he assiduously avoided physics and calculus in high school, because he switched from art history to an architecture track, he ended up suffering through them in college.</p>

<p>What Marion says about calculus required for Math Studies bears some looking into. What I don’t understand is where you’re supposed to pick up this calculus. If the IB includes it on the exam, shouldn’t they also include it in the class?</p>

<p>There aren’t too many young people who evidence an interest in art history and classics in 10th grade. I would consider this a point of differentiation and develop and enhance her interests. Don’t know where you live but I’d encourage her to get involved in a teen program or classes at a museum. Bryn Mawr is a great choice for art history as are Williams, Wesleyan, Hamilton, Vassar, Oberlin, Kenyon, Conn College.</p>

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<p>zoosermom, did I read correctly that your d is a potential classics major with one year of Latin because that is the maximum Latin opportunity offered at her school? I think this will intrigue the admissions committee - a kid who loves Latin so much that she wants to pursue classics after only one year of exposure to the language. My d is a classics major whose school offered 5 years of Latin, including AP Vergil (no Greek, though). As long as the adcom can see that she maxed out the Latin offerings, I think this will make your d stand out a bit.</p>

<p>I can't offer any helpful comments on IB curriculum concerns (just the non-IB mom comment that the whole thing seems confusing as hell :) ). You mention Bryn Mawr as a possible reach for your d. One of my d's best friends was accepted ED at Bryn Mawr in 2005. Her mother contacted the admissions dept. several times about her high school curriculum. This student was a very strong Latin/humanities student who barely managed to hang on through pre-calc. She took AP Stats instead of Calc, on the advice of Bryn Mawr's regional rep. She also found herself in over her head in AP Physics senior year and, before she was accepted, dropped that class and substituted AP Psych - this following a phone call from Mom to the admissions department, which told her that it would not view her daughter's app negatively if she did so. The student did have 4 credits of science at the time, all on the honors or higher track - earth science, bio, chem, and AP chem. Earth science is a NY state requirement and considered a high school credit, though it's often taught on the honors level in 8th grade (and occasionally dissed as a science on college discussion boards. To me, a science is a science is a science).</p>

<p>I think that Bryn Mawr's admissions dept. would probably be glad to discuss your d's curriculum with her. Or even with you, as my friend's experience demonstrates. She was never embarrassed to admit that she made all the phone calls and many of the decisions in her d's college hunt. Worked for them! (Why did I never have a compliant child?)</p>

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<p>Re: parents helping with the college hunt. A friend of mine described it this way: "Son is directing the project, and I am being the administrative assistant." When she put it that way, I stopped feeling guilty that I was the one hunting for schools with the obscure program S. was interested in, scheduling campus tours and asking questions about housing, public transportation, etc.</p>