Coursework

<p>Is physics sophomore year the typical path most take at Penn? At my alma mater, everyone took physics junior year. In my opinion Physics is easier to self study for the MCAT than Organic...</p>

<p>the traditional path here is generally considered orgo junior year, the rationale being that it's best to take it in isolation from other reqs, and after you have some other tough classes under your belt so you know how to handle it.</p>

<p>people do, of course, take them in the order they think will be best for them</p>

<p>also, Spring semester at Penn ends early relative to most schools, placing the April MCAT essentially on top of finals, meaning that any class taken in the Spring of that year will be fresh in memory</p>

<p>Well, phillySASer just scared me away from being a chemistry major at Penn (and ED keeps me from going to any other college). If taking classes Pass/Fail doesnt hurt you as a premed, I'll probably take biochem and p-chem that way. Does economics (my other semi interest) at Penn have the same brutal curves as chemistry? I know I have plenty of time to figure out what I want to major in, but the fear of a low GPA keeping me out of med school shouldn't keep me from pursuing my interests right?</p>

<p>There is a curve in econ, as there is in most large classes, but the material isn't as difficult and the students taking it aren't quite as crazy. You can't avoid taking classes with curves, it's just the way things are, the issue with going the chem route is that you're directly competeing with what are generally considered the brightest kids at Penn (those in the Vagelos biochem program) for the duration of your undergrad career.</p>

<p>The curves shouldn't prevent you from pursuing your interests, though I do think once you get here you'll realize just how silly the idea of taking biochem and p-chem pass/fail sounds (lots of pass/fail classes also looks bad to med schools as side note). Wait until you're through Gen Chem and Orgo before you think about such things (and don't even THINK about placing out of gen chem, because then you'd essentially be required to take p-chem, biochem, and p-chem lab to fill your premed reqs).</p>

<p>Usually there's a cap on taking pass/fail courses in your major (as in they generally don't allow it), regardless of the effect on med school admissions...</p>

<p>Thanks for the advice. I know I should wait a year or two before thinking about higher level course work, but one of my flaws is looking too far into the future. One of my small problems with picking a major is that my parents view some majors (science, engineering, math, econ) as worth while for the tuition compared to others (sociology, history, anthropology) probably because of their majors (mechanical engineering and chemistry). I guess I'll figure all this stuff out when the time comes.</p>

<p>Also, if I were to take pchem and/or biochem pass/fail, I would be majoring in something else.</p>

<p>P/F is a bad idea. Don't bother taking p-chem at all, and biochem will be hard but so goes the life of a premed.</p>

<p>And econ is a great major. :D Keeps parents happy, keeps jobs open*, is fun to talk to, and always has people interested in soliciting your opinions on things.</p>

<p>*This might be diff't at Penn, because A&S only offers a BA while the Wharton kids are Econ BS's... not sure how the competitive pool for jobs plays out.</p>

<p>Why is P/F so bad? Would med schools view Ps as Cs (or whatever the minimum grade it is to get a P)?</p>

<p>Also, it's wussy.</p>

<p>Cool.
/* asdklfjdslkfdklds */</p>

<p>if i take 2nd semester of calculus (I already have calculus BC in high school)
I also have 1st semester calculus and 1 semester of statistics waived using AP credit. How do I fulfill 1 year of Math requirement?</p>

<p>Take upper level math. I waived both semesters of calc w/ AP credit so I ended up taking Calc III (multi var) and Linear Algebra.</p>

<p>that didn't seem to be the case for me, I took AP calc AB and I got a five so I got waived for one semester and my school told me that my other half would be covered by one course so I just took calc II in college and that's been it.</p>

<p>my question is not a good idea to opt out 1 full yr of calculus and 1 sem of statistics. is that right? Most med schools dont require math, but some do.
In fact, a few require 1 yr of math. So, it is better to take 2nd sem calculus and 1 sem of stat, instead of using AP credit.</p>

<p>HF: You're exactly right.</p>

<p>Didn't I read somewhere on CC that some med schools like Calc III?</p>

<p>If I'm reading you right, I suspect what you read was something I often say.</p>

<p>That while medical schools won't care, I happen to think that Calc III is an important part of any young person's education. It involves thinking about the way certain variables change as you hold others constant and how to imagine the totals of things that appear to us to be changing constantly. It's still calculus, but by adding in multiple variables, you can start to mentally understand some of the processes that occur around us in day-to-day life. How many things have just one cause, just one contributing variable, behind their rates of change?</p>

<p>Medical school admissions won't care, but Calc III is one of those paradigm-changing courses that alters the way you think about quantitative phenomena in general. Those life skills matter an awful lot. It's the entire mathematical foundation for statistics.</p>

<p>Now, Calc III is often not taught in a manner that emphasize this aspect of it. But that's okay -- you'll absorb it anyway, along the way.</p>

<p>Be warned: it's a difficult course, it counts towards BCPM, and medical school admissions will not give you bonus points for taking it.</p>

<p>But I think it's important anyway.</p>

<p>I hate my CalcIII course right now and am doing pretty poorly. Luckily it is just for high school credit and not college :)</p>

<p>What sort of physics is on the MCAT? Is it more like AP Physics B or AP Physics C (I'm currently in AP Physics C and am just curious. If you don't want to answer because I should be looking this up on my own that is fine too)?
<a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/physics_b/topic.html?physicsb%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/physics_b/topic.html?physicsb&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Finally, why don't med schools and law schools care about your major and the courses you take? If I major in gym, basketweaving, or leisure studies with a 3.8, does it put me above a Hopkins BME grad with similar MCAT/LSAT and ECs with a 3.5? If so, then I'm going to consider transferring to a college that offers those BS majors.</p>

<p>Remember, if you're taking it AT a college, it matters to med schools.</p>

<p>Vastly below AP Physics. There's no calc on the MCAT.</p>

<p>Medical schools AND law schools care about your major within limits. Vocational majors like the ones you've mentioned are discriminated against.</p>

<p>Second, medical schools do not care about major not controlling for GPA. In other words, an English major with an avg. English major GPA is treated the same as a BME major with an avg. BME GPA.</p>

<p>The evidence of this is in the fact that majors are admitted in exactly the same percentages that they apply, without controlling for MCAT score and GPA. So English majors get slightly higher MCAT scores and GPAs, but those things do not particularly help them in the application process. BME majors get slightly worse MCAT scores and GPAs, but that does not harm them in the application process.</p>

<p>It's very important that you understand this clearly, because it's different for law school. Does this make sense?</p>

<p>This is unlike law school, where they are reputed to not care about major while controlling for GPA. So a 3.8 is a 3.8, no matter what major it's from. I've never seen the data to support this; this is only the reputation that law schools carry.</p>

<p>A few course questions for BDM or anyone else who can answer them:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>If my science GPA is solid will I look bad to med schools if I don't take any science or math classes beyond the basic requirements?</p></li>
<li><p>As an econ major, how much math did you take? I'm guessing you took up to calc III, but did you take as much as say a pre PhD econ major (like up to analysis)?</p></li>
<li><p>How does this minor look? I'm a little interested (not for med school purposes, but just in general) <a href="http://www.psych.upenn.edu/bbb/BBBHCMGMinor.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.psych.upenn.edu/bbb/BBBHCMGMinor.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li>
</ol>