Covid is making it harder to get into a top college

Applying to College
22

I disagree with this assessment. I think seniors are actually applying to a lot more colleges this year. Mainly because they haven’t had a chance to visit other than virtually and since they didn’t spend the money to visit they have the money to spend on an application instead. I am in a group where people are saying their kids are applying to 16 or more schools. Some kids worked on essays all summer. Some just use the same supplemental essay over and over and tweak it to fit that school. Some are applying to more mid-level schools and chasing money, but also applying to higher level schools and looking for the best financial aid packages they can get.

I wonder though if this will cause schools in turn to have huge waitlists because if the same kids are the ones receiving all the acceptances at the end of the day they can only attend 1 university and there may then be many openings out there when all the chips land so schools need to protect themselves. Also, I think since many elite colleges don’t offer merit and people see that the financial aid isn’t what they had hoped or expected, those students who applied just to apply may ultimately have to back out as well, not to mention some schools that really do need full paying students to attend. So while RD apps will probably be way up, it will be interesting to see how everything shakes out in the end. And as a parent of a high school senior caught in the middle of this mess, I cannot wait for this cycle to be over!

My kid normally would’ve only applied to about 6 colleges with a test score, but instead is being forced to apply to about 14 because he has to add more safeties after what should have been likely’s are possibly no longer such.

17 Likes
23

Yes! I heard the international applications increased tremendously for the schools that had extended their EA or ED dates past the election once Biden won because they felt that immigration rules would be kinder to them. Makes total sense. I don’t think that really hurts domestic applicants because I think schools have a general cap on how many internationals they accept anyway. But who knows? Are schools providing the breakdown on how many internationals they accepted ED/EA as well as a breakdown of such applications?

1 Like
24

This is our approach as well

25

According to the same article, the overall number of applications is down, not up, from last year.

2 Likes
26

Totally agree, my son is applying to performing arts programs with non audition based programs as a back-up. Applications are up at each program because we dont need to travel for auditions, but the total number of kids auditioning is no different. In the end each highly competitive kid will get many acceptances and the less desirable programs will go deep in their waiting list. He was planning to apply to 15 schools, we ended up with 21.

27

Not according to what I have been reading. What is happening is that the number of applicants is down but each applicant is applying to more schools. Every article I have read has stated such. That is the conundrum. Not that there are less applications.

6 Likes
28

Do you have an example article that has stated this… stating that overall applications are down, rather than stats for a particular selective college? Other sources suggest the opposite. For example, the article at College applications are decreasing mentions the a small decrease in overall number of applications via the Common App and 60% of member colleges reported a decrease compared to the previous year.

There is a wide variation among individual colleges. The largest increases I’ve heard of are at MIT and Harvard, which increased by 62% and 57% respectively. Yale was up 38%, Other highly selective privates that are a bit less selective than HYPSM were often around 15-20%. There appears to be a loose correlation between selectivity and degree of application increase among highly selective privates, which is consistent with the proposed test optional theories.

A similar pattern occurs in publics as well, although there are many exceptions… probably with dependence on unique characteristics that of particular states. For example, applications to the generally more selective 9 UCs are up 15%, while application to the generally less selective 23 CSUs are down 5%. At the other end, colleges that still require test scores are often among those with the largest decrease. For example, Florida State is down 32%… a much larger decrease than the 5% at Cal State.

1 Like
29

Read this article and the section starting “fluctuating application numbers” where the common app reported “Unique applicants to returning members were down 2%, so even though less students are applying, they are submitting applications to more schools.” There was an entire article written about this either in early November or the end of October I can’t recall, but this is summing up similar stats. Separately, in regards to your comments above, other elite schools had huge % increase in applications. Cornell had 36%, Penn had 23%, GA Tech 25%, UVA 36%, etc.

1 Like
30

The 2 articles have some inconsistencies. The InsideHigherEd article mentions a 8% decrease in applications as of mid November, which is after the early application deadlines at the bulk of the colleges discussed in this thread. While the Forbes article says 8% decrease in applicants rather than applications. Assuming the Forbes article is accurate, then it mentions a 6% increase in applications via Common App as of Dec 2nd. That is a statistically significant increase, but smaller than the increases seen at typical highly selective colleges, which fits with the discussed test optional theory.

A 6% increase in applications with 2% decrease in applicants (as of Dec 2nd) does suggest a small increase in applications per student among Common App users, but it’s also important to note that the schools with increase in applications were not just limited to EA schools. They also included schools with ED/REA/SCEA policies that restrict multiple applications. For example, Harvard REA restricts the student from applying to any other early admission program at a private college in the US. I expect the overwhelming majority of Harvard’s REA applicants applied to only a single college during the early round this year, just like last year, yet Harvard still had a 57% increase in applications. The increase in applications wasn’t simply due to more applications per student.

My earlier range said “often around.” “Often around” does not mean every non-HYPSM “elite” private is within the range. You can find some that are above, like the ones you listed. And you can find some that are below, which include Notre Dame being up 6% and Emory being up 8%, However, I am not of any others that had as large increases as Harvard or MIT.

It’s worthwhile to note that there are also thousands of colleges that are not “elite.” The overall trends in applications across US colleges has more to do with the latter than a small handful of “elites” that had an abnormally large increase.

31

It’s not like these are independent facts. I would wager a substantial amount that roughly the same number of students, and the same percentage of all high school students, will be accepted and attend Harvard next year as in previous years.

The fact that a whole bunch more people filled out a form and sent it to Harvard doesn’t make it “harder” to get in. I could offer every student in Pennsylvania $5 to fill in a one-page application to Carlow University, have them all rejected, and proclaim Carlow is the most selective, hardest to get into college in the country. It’s not.

(Fwiw, Hampshire College accepted 1.2% of their applicants last year)

6 Likes
32

I find the logic that applicants apply to more colleges simply becasue they were unable to visit any colleges unconvincing (I’m not denying some do in some circles). We already know they apply to more “elite” colleges, but the evidence so far points to fewer applications to other colleges. If they don’t know much about the colleges, why would they select a college unless it’s a well-known “elite” or a more physically and financially accessible college (such as a local college)?

33

No idea if Harvard plans to accept less than last year or not, but they did accept way less for REA this year than last year. At this point no one knows if that’s because of the students who deferred their acceptances last year (I know of 2), or if they’re just waiting to see their RD pool.

I also know of people who applied to Harvard just for “fun” which is ridiculous but whatever floats their boat. So there are obviously plenty of those garbage applications.

34

I’m in numerous groups where people are doing just this. Applying all over the place, to both competitive colleges and mid level colleges they have never visited. Our last college visit was in February to Wash U. A week long visit to see schools in the SE were cancelled over Spring Break due to Covid and then any other ones we were going to do in summer. There are also other ones within driving distance that have not been visited and many that were visited as part of my older kids visits that fortunately there was exposure to and then our previous visits since we started early. But there are still others that are being applied to based on what is happening in the ED cycle. The virtual tours helped and helped eliminate some but they also were not all great either.

When so many kids didn’t get into their ED schools that also ramped up their applications. The question now will be whether or not those who applied to a school as a huge reach to them as an ED and were flat out rejected, will bother applying RD to some of those other elite schools. If not then that should take out some of the applications but it isn’t looking like that will be the case. Headaches all around.

I would love to see more options offered by colleges to offer Spring admission or even Fall 2022 admission to accommodate some of these students that would have been accepted in any non covid year but they just don’t have the space due to limitations from last year.

1 Like
35

I don’t think there’s any question that it’s harder to get into top schools than in previous years. The very definition of who is academically qualified for admission has changed, and accordingly, the pool of academically-competitive applicants is now larger.

Of course, rigor and a host of unquantifiable factors are still important, the secret sauce for top schools, etc., but specifically with regard to academic qualifications, there is some question about the weight applied to grades even for score submitters, whether that has been altered in this test optional landscape. While on a rough continuum for selectivity, there is very little published by colleges that distinguishes where a particular student with rigor and “good” grades might be academically competitive among top 50 schools.

Increased uncertainty is driving students to apply to more schools they would in a normal year. Imagine trying to craft and categorize a list of reaches, matches, and safeties as an unhooked applicant in need of FA, with high grades and (at least apparent) rigor but no scores, or scores that would be too low for top schools - I do think there might be more of these kids out there than others seem to think. Correlations between scores and grades are imperfect. In the past, we might point to the student’s scores to help them categorize their list, but the data point does not exist for that student.

Uncertainty doesn’t only apply to elites. Admission uncertainty runs down through the top 50-80+ schools and of course varies a bit among schools and more or less competitive majors.

From the individual student perspective, here on Dec 30, now is the time to hedge against uncertainty by applying broadly and then seeing where the chips fall, determining preferences after admission decisions are in. I have a feeling it will be a long ride through August.

10 Likes
36

“It’s harder to get into top schools than in previous years. The very definition of who is academically qualified for admission has changed, and accordingly, the pool of academically-competitive applicants is now larger.”

The definition hasn’t changed. The number of applicants has, in some cases.

“…but specifically with regard to academic qualifications, there is some question about the weight applied to grades even for score submitters, whether that has been altered in this test optional landscape.”

I don’t think so. Why wouldn’t grades matter? Grades served a purpose then and serve now, as well. In holistic, they’ve never been all it takes, but they are an important metric. They are the results of one’s efforts.

Imo, the problem starts with the underlying idea that stats are the supreme factor. It’s true that the kid with top stats/rigor is showing the drives and achievement. Great. But that’s only a beginning- and that kid still hs a lot more to show. And it’s been this way for a long time, with holistic elites.

Much is said about what proportion of applicants could handle the work at a tippy top. A high number is usually thrown out. But the elites are looking for more than “can handle the work.”

The elites can command more. But all the fixation on scores masks that for too many kids, as it is. Or they make assumptions about what’s importat to the college (see the typical Chance Me.)

More kids applying with this faulty notion doesn’t make the true competiton harder. It’s just more apps to get through First Cut.

The standards, to get through First Cut and through to finalist, have not changed. You just won’t have scores, if you elect TO. The wheat will still be separated from the chaff.

1 Like
37

@lookingforward The criteria formerly were x + y + z + scores. Now, the criteria are x + y + z. While x + y + z have not changed, the removal of a limiting factor from the defined criteria expands what is defined as wheat. The pool that qualifies as wheat is now larger.

(On the weight of grades, my question was whether they matter even more than before. Sorry I was not clear.)

6 Likes
38

I think the fact that many could not visit colleges in person has increased the number of college applications. This is simply because there are no grounds for a student to eliminate a particular college that has piqued their interest on-line.

We visited three colleges while my D was a sophomore, all of which she was initially strongly attracted to. Having put “feet on the campus,” she eliminated two of those three from the running.

We had a long slate of East coast colleges lined up to visit when she became a Junior but that never happened.

Ironically, because we had seen that a college that looks good ‘in theory’ could seem completely unsuitable in person, my D never did apply to any of those East Coast colleges. She EDed to the one she had liked in person as a sophomore.

But if we hadn’t started visiting colleges in person as a sophomore, I have no doubt she would have cast her net far and wide over both coasts.

4 Likes
39

A HS counselor told me that the VP of Admissions at a LAC relayed that the school profile will figure more prominently this year bc of so many TO apps as well as P/F grades and erratic remote education and activities. May only be that one college, but it does make some sense.

3 Likes
40

We were told by more than one AO that grades and essays will matter more this year. One school that extended its deadline said it was doing so in order to be able to review more of the fall semester grades. I wonder if that’s behind Princeton’s decision to eliminate REA as well.

1 Like
41

@textbooked Just to clarify, the AO said that grades and essays will matter more this year than in the past even for score submitters, is that correct?