<p>Hi guys,</p>
<p>Would it be okay for me to enroll in easy "underwater basket weaving" courses for the 30 additional units needed to fulfill CPA requirements? Would these easy classes affect my chances of getting into a good MBA program? And how did you guys go about finishing the 30 extra units?</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Get a Masters in Accounting.</p>
<p>I also got a question.</p>
<p>For a Masters in accounting and meeting the 150hrs for CPA, does it do any good to get a MBA from a top school? Like after your undergraduate, you go work for a Big4, then apply for a good MBA school for the last 30 credit hours. Because I know most schools just have you continue the 30hours at the same school.</p>
<p>You won’t get into the B4 without being eligible to sit for the CPA exam. And, you won’t get into a top MBA program without a few years of work experience. </p>
<p>A MACC’s sole existence is to allow people to get to 150, otherwise, the programs wouldn’t exist.</p>
<p>^^ By this reasoning a person with 150 undergraduate credits and major in accounting would be just as attractive a hire to Big 4 or anybody else as a person with a MACC. I doubt that, especially if the MACC gets his degree from a good program.</p>
<p>With cc summer school, ap credit, extra credit for testing into upper level foreign language classes, taking a one- or two credit p.e. classes or whatever each semester, double majoring in something useful like finance, it is often not that difficult for an accounting ugrad to get to 150 in four years at the right school and with good planning.</p>
<p>I’m torn with this. </p>
<p>At first glance I decided that getting a MACC would be good. It’s one year, shouldn’t be that expensive, could go somewhere fun and/or bigger market, etc… I got into USC-Marshall for undergrad but couldn’t afford it, so I figured I could just go get my MACC at USC. Get a nice Big 4 job in California and things would be good.</p>
<p>But it costs $42k alone for tuition and living in LA isn’t exactly cheap, even living on ramen.</p>
<p>So I’m going to be a freshman at Ohio State and I figured I would just stock up on credits and would use my AP and CC classes from high school to count for the 150 rule and graduate in 4 years with a degree in finance and accounting. </p>
<p>One big roadblock is OSU is switching from quarters to semesters after this year…so hopefully all of the credits will transfer over cleanly for the most part. Hope this isn’t going to be a problem but I doubt it will be that bad, OSU can’t just bone over 50,000+ kids haha.</p>
<p>Its 150 semester credits or 225 quarter credits meets the requirement in most states. </p>
<p>1 semester credit = 2/3 quarter credits, do the math. For whatever reason alot of students have the necessary credits in 4.5 years.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, a top undergraduate student with 150 hours is just as, if not more marketable, than a student with a MACC. The B4 don’t care about a MACC–the 150 hour requirement is a huge debate amongst the accounting community. The last 30 credits are there as a barrier to entry and serve no other purposes than to limit the number of CPAs and promote these MACC academic programs. Without the barrier to entry, MACC programs die overnight.</p>
<p>A MACC is probably the least valuable Masters degree that someone in business can pursue.</p>
<p>Please just take my word on all of this.</p>
<p>I agree completely with goose on this.</p>
<p>UPDATE: The California Board of Accountancy has created a framework for these 30 additional units. They’ll consist of 20 Upper-level accounting units, and 10 ethic ones. In other words, we can’t take underwater basket weaving courses anymore…</p>
<p>Sources:
<a href=“http://www.dca.ca.gov/cba/misc_notices/not11-15.pdf[/url]”>http://www.dca.ca.gov/cba/misc_notices/not11-15.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.dca.ca.gov/cba/meetings/materials/2011/mat0611aec_ecc1.pdf[/url]”>http://www.dca.ca.gov/cba/meetings/materials/2011/mat0611aec_ecc1.pdf</a></p>
<p>[California</a> Board of Accountancy - What's New](<a href=“http://www.dca.ca.gov/cba/board_info/new.shtml]California”>http://www.dca.ca.gov/cba/board_info/new.shtml)</p>
<p>That would roll out in 2014 at the earliest if everything in that proposal goes as planned. Moreover, it would only apply to CA so what I said still holds true for the rest of the country.</p>
<p>At Kelley/Bloomington the 3/2 MBA students and the MACC students own the big four summer internships in Indianapolis, where the big four presence is admittedly not that big. These programs both get you a little over 150 credits. S is on course for 150 credits but no graduate degree; he had a 3.9 overall and 3.7 in accounting after sophomore year and could not even get an interview for big four summer, and Kelley is easily a top ten accounting program and highly ranked overall. The 3/2 mba and macc students give the big four somebody at the same stage in life with the same income requirements as a ugrad with the 150, but they are better trained and possess better skills than the ugrads with 150 credits. At Fall oncampus recruiting events for summer internships, the big four recruiters ask all the 3/2 mba and Macc students to go to the front of the line. The graduate programs do not have classes in summer; that is another reason for them owning the summer internships. I’m sure it could be different elsewhere, especially in areas with no or less reputable graduate accounting programs.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You are comparing a sophomore undergraduate to MACC and MBA accounting students and you expect the sophomore to have any chance? No kidding your son didn’t get any looks. It is extremely difficult to get B4 internship looks until a student’s junior year is completed when they have taken the appropriate coursework to be suitable for an audit or tax position. </p>
<p>Even if a sophomore is on an advanced track, he or she would have maybe finished the intermediate series by the end of his or her sophomore year. In addition to that, he or she would need to have taken at least one audit or tax class minimum. In addition to that, he or she would have practically zero experience on his or her resume at this point in his/her college career. All of these ingredients make getting an internship at that stage in the college undergraduate career very difficult unless all of the ingredients are perfect for the student. </p>
<p>If an undergraduate at Indiana has almost a 4.0 with great prior work experience and 150 undergraduate hours, a FT job at the B4 is attainable. </p>
<p>The better trained part is up for argument because all that matters is being able to pass the CPA exam–thats why MACC programs don’t matter. If an undergrad can pass the CPA exam without a MACC while still achieving 150 hours, that student has saved a year of school and the opportunity cost of not working for that year. In essence, potentially a ~$100k decision by being motivated and at the top of the class.</p>
<p>In addition, interview skills are vital. </p>
<p>Lastly, an undergraduate that majors in accounting is probably more prepared for “accounting” than an MBA majoring in accounting. The undergraduate will have taken more accounting specific classes than the MBA in accounting. The MACC would have them both beat but the material overlap between MACC programs and an undergraduate accounting major is tremendous.</p>
<p>Generally when you ask, recruiters say that they don’t care how you get the additional credits. Although I do wonder about this sometimes, I think for smaller public accounting firms, and maybe for tax positions, you will be at an advantage w/ a masters.</p>
<p>I still think there is an advantage to taking a MAcc though. For one, later on, when you leave public accounting, having a Masters on your resume should make you more competitive for opportunities/promotion. Also taking more accounting classes will increase your understanding (even if there is overlap, a little repitition is probably good) & prepare you further for the CPA exam. I also think if your taking a more specialized MAcc, such as Tax or Info Systems, it can add more value if you havnt spent alot of time studying those topics in your undergrad. </p>
<p>The wierd thing about getting a Masters degree, is that it will make you qualified for public acctg jobs, but it will make you overqualified for some corporate jobs who are looking for Bachelor degree grads only. You think they’d be happy taking both. Wierd.</p>
<p>You make good points, goose, but when son returns to fall recruiting for summer internships (he will be putting off graduation until Fall 2012 in order to get a busy season internship and another summer internship in 2012) the Big Four oncampus recruiters will still be preferencing the 3/2 and Macc students for summer internships, when none of these students has classes and during their Spring semester they won’t have time for internships because classes are scheduled so as not to allow the time to do them. My son probably needs to look at Chicago for a big four summer internship, as Indianapolis is too close to Bloomington/Kelley’s graduate accounting programs. </p>
<p>It is counterintuitive to suggest that accounting majors with five years of college from a top program would be on the same level in terms of desirability to the big four as four-year 150 credit undergrads, but maybe you are right. Also, I don’t agree that the ugrad would have more accounting training when you consider that ugrads are not taking more accounting classes to meet the 150 requirement, but lots of easy credit, much of it pass/fail. </p>
<p>Regarding your statement that, “Even if a sophomore is on an advanced track, he or she would have maybe finished the intermediate series by the end of his or her sophomore year. In addition to that, he or she would need to have taken at least one audit or tax class minimum.” I know of lots of 3/2 mba and macc students who get big four summer internships at Kelley that have not completed both intermediates, and certainly have not taken audit yet. And for undergrads, audit is not taken until last semester. By the time you take intermediate II you would be one semester from graduating; most would no longer be an undergrad after having completed audit, so they would not be looking for internship, but full-time by the time they complete audit.</p>
<p>You say “It is extremely difficult to get B4 internship looks until a student’s junior year is completed when they have taken the appropriate coursework to be suitable for an audit or tax position.” Since summer big four interns are recruited the previous Fall semester, how can the ugrads have completed, and their performance in them evaluated, in both intermediates, tax, and audit by then, when the internship they are seeking they will two after completing two more semesters? How can they still be undergrads by the time the summer internship dates roll around?</p>
<p>^
</p>
<p>I think goose was comparing with acct undergrad with MBA in acct, not Master of Acct. The two are different, he said
</p>
<p>As a fact, in the recent proposal of Calif. change to CPA requirement, only Master of Acct/Master of Taxation/Master of Law in Taxation will be deem to equivalent to the extra 20-units of upper accounting related course work, NOT MBA in accounting.</p>
<p>bthomp:</p>
<p>In my state, internship recruiting happens at the beginning of the academic year that is 2nd to last from the one you will graduate. If your son’s school’s Macc program is 1 year, like most of them are, then the recruiters will not really be differentiating students based on that because all the students at that point in time are Undergrads and probably havent even applied/been accepted into any graduate/masters program yet - even if they plan too. </p>
<p>All students are having tough times getting internships - including students who plan to get their masters. Its silly to think that big4 summer internships in Chicago are easier to get because of that reason. </p>
<p>Your son’s school seems to have a VERY differnt recruting cycle from mine & goose’s. NO ONE at my school gets an big4 internship until the summer between their two last years. Usually students finish their bachelors by the end of their 4th year, do their internship, and then take additional courses to reach 150 credits or do a MAcc. A sophmore would have no chance whatsoever. </p>
<p>Your last paragraph is really confusing.</p>
<p>I mentioned gpa at end of sophomore year. He went through summer internship recruiting at his school in the Fall semester, beginning of junior year. No way he would interview for big four in Fall of sophomore year.</p>
<p>goose says you need at least both intermediates and audit or tax to get a summer internship. If you are graduating in four years, taking eight consecutive fall and spring semesters, then how can you possibly have completed both intermediates and a tax/audit in order to be evaluated for/interview for a summer internship in the summer between junior and senior year? Both intermediates and tax are usually not taken until the junior year. Thus, if you are graduating in four years (eight consecutive Fall and Spring semesters), big four will not be able to evaluate you based on your performance in both intermediates and tax/audit during Fall semester of junior year-- when recruiting for summer internships takes place-- since you won’t have grades for any of these classes. The logistical problem of squeezing upper level accounting classes is exacerbated at Kelley because they require an Icore semester of 14 credits, which is usually taken fall of junior year, and also because they require you pass a half-semester accounting class before you can even take the two intro financial and managerial courses, which cannot be taken the same semester. It is a bad idea to take any accounting courses during I core semester. </p>
<p>Also, all types of Chicago firms recruit Kelley heavily for summer internships in the Fall preceding that summer. </p>
<p>S. has a lesser internship this summer, and will put off graduating with his 150 credits until Fall 2012 in order to get a busy season internship and try for a better summer internship in 2012. The 3/2 accounting mba’s and Macc (believe it or not, it is recommended that you apply to the Macc program at Kelley by March 15 of your junior year) monopolize the good summer internships to a large degree just because they have enough talent and potential to be accepted to the graduate accounting program, which is probably at least top twenty for accounting, and big four is heavily about locking up talent in advance of graduation through their summer internships.</p>
<p>Regarding the 150 units, one poster posted a while ago in this board, not this thread, that the schools have a master program will encourage doing the master program, while the school don’t have a master program will encourage squeezing in four years with overload or do the 5th year as a under. It seems true. (Speculate …)</p>
<p>DD goes to a school that doesn’t offer master acct or taxation program. The MBA program gears towards working professionals, a different market with under program. The two don’t share recruitment event at all, internship or full-time. The juniors have no competition from the graduate students of their own school. Since Calif. is soon to adopt the 150-units, I’m interested to hear the recruitment experience, under vs graduate, from the California schools that offer both under and graduate program.</p>
<p>At Kelley, nobody in the 3/2 accounting mba and probably relatively few in the macc program (it has a lot of internationals, and many of them have experience) have any professional full-time experience.</p>