@sosconcern the singer i am referring to is stuck. “One must do what one must do” does not work in this instance. He has no funds to pursue his career. He is spending the little money that he is bringing in on his loans.This guy has already won some of the top competitions on the planet but now cannot afford to take it to the next level since he cannot afford the trips to auditions. I know that this is hard to fathom, especially for parents of young students, but the REAL spending on pursuing a career in classical voice happens after the MM. Auditions cost a fortune.(you literally have to pony up money for the audition) Preperations for auditions cost a fortune. Travel to auditions cost a fortune. One of the many things that “one must do” is not incur debt. In short when parents think they are helping the singer by incurring debt, they are in fact hindering the singers chance for a future in music. I see it all the time.
I agree with you @musicamusica - very difficult in many cases to pursue this. One of my bosses (a physician in a specialty practice) funded his DD through the process - but first, the local opera person had to confirm early in her HS years if she was talented enough. Father almost went into concert piano - he played for her Juliard audition, and she was accepted. He was able to afford her studies in Italy, Germany, etc.along the way. She won the Marilyn Horne competition and she has ‘starred’ in opera productions in NY, Chicago, etc - so she is earning a living. I was very impressed with how her talent has ‘blossomed’.
That young man needs to live where there are many auditions - and he has to figure a way to advance - maybe he can get a sponsor or patron to help him.
I do know a little about the process. My D is a professional opera singer performing and living in Europe.“he has to figure a way to advance” He THOUGHT that the way to advance, as many student do, was to incur debt. The problem with living where the jobs are (SF, LA and NYC) is that it’s too expensive for someone trying to pay the loans, on top of the audition fees, lessons, coaching etc etc etc. " This is my point. The burden of debt can make this impossible. On the other hand as you see from first hand experience, no debt and parental funding make it much easier.(rich parents…I highly recommend this route)
My D chose affordable schools and chose an almost fully funded grad school route. No debt and no post grad parental funding. (and no physician parents at the ivories)It can be done.
Who’s funding the “time off to travel”? Is the S going to help out his mother and his brother in their time of need, when his mother can no longer do her backbreaking food truck job?
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Sometimes you just have to say ‘no’ to your kids. Some parents are uncomfortable with that, and some parents are really uncomfortable with talking about money.
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Yes, some parents can’t say “no” to their kids. They’ll use words like, “She has her heart set on…”.
So what! As parents, isn’t it our job to help kids realize that “real life” means that we often can’t get what we want…and frankly, it’s not healthy or realistic to expect unaffordable things.
I think these parents are unknowingly setting these kids up for difficulties accepting that some “desired” things just can’t be had. It’s best for them to get 'used" to that at a young age. If they only hear “no,” when they’re much older they think that the person saying “no” is just being “mean”…or doesn’t “love” them. Ugh!
I can tell that the young person I mentioned in the OP was not used to being told “no,” because of their additional credit card debt. When I asked what that debt was from, the items mentioned were mostly pricey luxury items. The person mentioned that they want to buy the new Apple Watch. Crazy.
@Barfly, could you share what degree/major enables your oldest to earn 6 figures 1 year out of college? I’m thinking of returning to school… Thanks
Me, too, @TerryB15! There are several degrees that pay well right out of college. He earned one of those degrees from the school ranked at the top in that major, and his timing for that major was perfect. The top graduates at his U all were offered 6 figures. Graduating this year would not have been so lucrative however.
I still think the opera singer needs to go to SF, LA, NYC, where-ever - live as cheaply as possible and do the waiting, door man, etc jobs to pay the loan and living expenses. His voice as he ages is going to reduce his chances and the longer he is just treading water where he is, the more discouraged he is going to be on living his dream. He has to have a way to do at least something in his field to have all his work to this point (and the debt) at least give him a chance at doing opera or singing for some of his living. Maybe there is a talent agent firm that has people working all along the process - not sure if there are any traveling opera companies where one starts in some minor rolls. Don’t know if he has credentials to teach - another way to earn some kind of a living.
We had a student from Oakwood College (7th day Adventist school in Huntsville AL) that was also identified by this local opera/voice coach as having talent she should pursue. She was in NY for several years (maybe 8, working but not in the limelight) before being identified as a huge talent, big enough for the leading role of the Opera “Aida” - and the critics were blown away by her performance (NY Times did a picture and big story on her). According to sources “As of 2007, the Metropolitan Opera alone has given more than 1,100 performances of the opera, making it the second most frequently performed work by the company behind La bohème.”
I think barfly’s child was an eng’g major…maybe ChemE? I know that the ChemE grads from my kids’ school all started at very high salaries.
I know roles, (not rolls - I was thinking about dinner last night and the delicious dinner rolls).
I have no control over poor choices by others. I am sad that the food truck woman will have a tough time now and in the future, with no rosy anything can see to look forward to. Maybe the S will get a fab job and take care of her and brother but not promising that there is no job spoken of waiting for him to finish his travel (no idea who is funding travek, but again, probably the selfless mom who can’t say no).
I find the who situation awfully depressing, and sadly more common than one might think.
@sosconcern — the sort of things you are saying about the process of becoming a working singer demonstrate the sort of magical thinking many parents and young singers have on career developement. That the debt can be easily taken care of with a low level job. That there are supportive agents and donors out there who will readily support your career.They , like you, REALLY think it’s that easy. I will just move to NYC and become a “waiter/doorman/shortorder cook” and pay my loans, and sing on the side. Well, you do have a point since there are literally thousands of unsuccessful opera singers doing just this right now in NYC.
You think that these options have not occurred to this young man who at one time had been a finalist at the Met auditions? My D belongs to an online community of professional singers (a lot of names among the members that even neophytes would recognize.) They posted a question a month ago. “What is the most important career step for a young artist today?” Number ONE:
DO NOT INCUR DEBT PURSUING YOUR DEGREE. This was the overwhelming response by long shot.
BTW— I am NOT of the opinion that a student should not pursue music as a career. On the contrary. I have a D working in music. Right now, I have a singer from NYC staying with us while he sings a role at LA Opera. I know that there is work out there. But it is HIGHLY competitive, those first few years out are VERY expensive and there is very little room for artists who are waylaid by burdensome debt.
A man can work in NYC probably a lot better with more varied work - esp if he is relatively handsome, has personality, and is willing to work.
If he is talented enough, he has to be where he can audition.
I agree the debt is crazy.
He is in the situation now. So are you saying he has to live with relatives because almost all he can earn is paying on his debt?
He has to change something.
correction: “If he is talented enough, he has to be where he can audition” Should be: “If he is talented enough, he has to be able to afford to live where he can audition” And that involves no debt.
But this is getting us nowhere. You obviously have vast experience and insight into the life of the young opera singer and I will give our friend your sage advice. 8-|
Threads like this make me thankful my kids will graduate with little or no debt. They were admitted to a couple of their reach schools, but had outstanding merit offers at other very good schools as well. While we are dual income, we did not amass huge college savings for a number of reasons. I can assure you it wasn’t living beyond our means. We drive 8 and 10 year old cars that we bought used, pay the credit cards in full every month, have never been on a tropical vacation, and will not be gutting the kitchen anytime in the near future. Property taxes are also stupid high here…we call that our “public school tuition”. :). We explained to them that attending their dream school would mean an unrealistic debt load for us and them, and though a bit disappointed, they understood. I have no doubt they will soar, regardless, and they seem quite happy with their choices. We will also be in a better position to help them down the road if they need it. It’s OK to not go into crushing debt for a college degree. I wish more high school guidance counselors preached that.
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Property taxes are also stupid high here…we call that our “public school tuition”.
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Yes, there are areas in this country where the property taxes are so high that they’re like a second mortgage!
We were faced with this issue as our son fell in love with a school that ended up being out of reach. Held out hope for enough merit money or finaid, but in the end we told him the situation wasn’t prudent. Did give him the option of taking on debt to fund it …but in the end he realized it wasn’t worth the $15K per year extra ($60K total) versus the other options he had to attend undergrad.
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Did give him the option of taking on debt to fund it …but in the end he realized it wasn’t worth the $15K per year extra ($60K total) versus the other options he had to attend undergrad.
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Yikes…you are very lucky that your son had the maturity to think that thru at a young age. Many, many, many 17/18 year olds are so impulsive that they wouldn’t have even paused with that offer.
It is a shame that post #36 - there wasn’t a discussion between student and parents. Inheritance was used for expensive school, and perhaps could have been used differently by intended student going to reasonably priced school instead.
I also can see where a kid will buy something with mom/dad’s money, but if they are using their own money…
Both my kids have money in a stock account, have scholarships and a pre-paid state plan that pays most of their tuition bill (up to 135 hours of tuition). They will stay debt free. Watching their money/expenses. We are very thankful for all three of these pieces being in place, and they will be receiving bachelor degrees that they can hopefully find work with (eng and nursing). They understand how money works, and appreciate some of the financial pieces we have put into place for them. They also appreciate some of the things we do for them (like pay car insurance, basic cell phone charge, etc).