So I am in a really confusing situation and would love some advice on what to do, I will give the backstory so it make sense…I was homeless for my first two years of high school (currently a junior) while attending an elite New England prep school. I began running my sophomore year and fell it love with cross country and track with ok results, low 18s sophomore year and now low 17’s junior year. I run around a 4:30 mile and 2:03 800. My coach has told me ill be fine for devision three running, but I would love to aim higher and set my goals for some division I programs with great academics; ivy, Vanderbilt, duke, etc. I know will need to lower my times into recruiting standards but my question is more about what I said at first…Due to being homeless and some personal issues I have a very low GPA (3.2) unweighted. Firstly, should I tell coaches I was homeless and would they care/understand (from an academic perspective)? I also attend a very elite school taking hard courses (All AP’s). Sorry for this being all over the place, I am not sure what to do. Thanks in advance for the help!
Edit: My overall questions are: 1. Should I tell coaches about my situation 2. Do I still have a chance at NESCAC and Ivy schools with my atrocious GPA?
D1 is going to require a 4:05 1600 to be recruited at a nationally ranked program; D1 Ivy will require around a 4:20 1600 - most of the D1 schools post their recruiting standards. Best to start reaching out to coaches this winter as they’ll be able to help you understand the scores/grades they need to see - In the case of Ivy League it’s referred to as the AI or Academic Index.
D3 NESCAC may be harder to gain admission as while they aren’t expecting to see as many sub-4:30 recruits, they have less flexibility with scores and grades; The NESCAC banding system doesn’t really leave room for xc/track athletes as those academic banding slot spots traditionally go to position sports.
Agree with Chembiodad. Very early in the process a NESCAC coach will ask for your transcript, school profile, and SAT/ACT. If he doesn’t think he can get you through admissions he will not support you. The coach only has so much influence in admissions (and that varies by school). So it’s not whether the coach will care or understand, its admissions. On top of that a NESCAC coach will want you to apply ED. May or may not be what you are comfortable with, so be prepared.
Your times are not really what ivies are looking at. For those schools your talking among the best at the state level—sub 16 5k, I’d even go lower on the 1600 to about 4:10 or 4:15. And you will still need strong academics. I suggest you look on the schools’ athletic websites. Each athlete has a bio with their times in the different events so you can see what they are looking for. You can also look the athletes up on Milesplit and see what they ran in high school.
When you’re the best in your school/league, it can be sobering to see that when you are looking at state and national results you don’t measure up. It’s important to be realistic. Have you run any state level meets? How did you finish? 5 seconds doesn’t sound like a lot but there could be 20 runners in there. It amazes me when I see the top kids in NJ blow away course records but when they get to NCAAs they’re middle of the pack.
You might want to expand your search and look at lower level DI or D3 programs. There are lots of schools out there that might be a better fit both athletically and academically.
If you are going to an elite prep school, I highly suggest you seek out advice from your coach and college counselor who will be well-versed in such things and who will be able to give you more personal and specific guidance based on your school’s profile and track record with colleges plus your own situation.
Just adding my agreement to both Chembiodad and eastcoast101’s comments. My daughter went through this process last year with these schools and the suggestion to look at current team stats is a good one. Majority of Ivy League and Division 1 teams will put their standards onto their websites so you will know the times that you need to hit in order to be considered. Athletic.net will also be helpful to see times of current runners etc. NESCAC schools are interesting because of the level of academics as well as the strength of the league in general. Many of her teammates ended up going with NESCAC schools and are thriving in the environments.
Another consideration should be realistic about is the amount of time you want to devote to your sport. Daughter’s friends who are running with D1 programs typically have two practices per day, and more travel time devoted to meets. They love it and are able to juggle it. FWIW, what is your comfort level with the balance between academics and athletics?
I am going to quibble with chembiodad. I don’t think the standard for recruitment to a nationally ranked program is as low as 4.05. According to athletic.net rankings for 2017 outdoor, only SIX kids in the entire USA ran 1600m times that fast. Granted, the tally of equivalent performances might be a bit higher when you factor in the 1500m and full mile, but 4.05 is really the upper stratosphere of the recruitment pool.
But that’s probably moot here since you will be looking at programs where the standards are a bit lower. Fortunately, that pool includes a number of very good schools that may be options for you. Hard to say what might be reasonable goals without knowing more about your training and coaching history. But if you really ran 2.03 for 800m and 4.30 1600m your FIRST year of track, I’d say you have a lot of potential. For a kid who hits those times in his first year of real training, I would not be surprised to see times of 1.55 and 4.15 by senior year (assuming you have good coaching, good work ethic, and stay healthy)–and those times would definitely hit recruiting standards for a lot of top schools, including ivies and certainly NESCACs.
Given the fact that you have only one track season behind you, I’d say it’s premature to say what programs are in reach or out of reach. Your junior track season will be a big factor in recruiting. For instance, if you go well under 2.00 in the 800 and low 4.20s for 1600 this spring, you will establish some good credentials, show improving trajectory, and perhaps get some attention.
Should you explain to coaches that you were homeless? Definitely! Although it’s a bit early to worry about college essays, your personal bio could make a compelling story. I’m not an admissions officer, but I’d wager that a kid with a story of overcoming adversity will generate sympathy among adcoms and the normal cattle-herding of admissions bands may not apply in tis instance. A 3.2 means something very different from a kid who grew up homeless as opposed to a rich kid who grew up with lots of advantages. Keep working hard on academics–showing upward trajectory will be important. Your character will matter as well. Letters of rec will make an impact when they say “runjunkie arrived at our school as a homeless kid but has shown great diligence, affability and strength of character”
Don’t worry about being confused. Just keep training hard and applying yourself in school. At this point, you simply don’t have enough info to realistically evaluate your options. You’ll be in a better position to judge your prospects at the end of junior year when you have new track times, standardized test scores, and updated GPA. Only then, IMO, can you really discern whether your options include D1 vs D3, ivies, NSCAC, Duke, Vandy etc.
Good luck!
@momoftwins2017, agree that D3 NESCAC is a great mix of academics and athletics - our xc/Track DD is really enjoying the experience.
@oldschooldad, ACC schools are looking for 4:07-4:08 1600, but agree a 4:12 should get a scholarship with walk-on standard around 4:18-4:20. Agree that hitting those marks after 1 year of running is promising; the key will be to keep getting stronger/faster; running coaches want to see an upward trajectory, so Junior year is huge - definitely try to run both indoor and spring track seasons.
https://athleticsrecruiting.com/trackandfieldrecruitingstandards.html
Do the standards in this link look accurate? And can someone fill in the blank as to the Women’s 1600 or 1500 time which is missing from this grid?
Thanks!
@wisteria100, don’t know about all times, but the mid-distance/distance numbers are off for the top D3 programs. These are the recruiting standards our DD was given by a top NESCAC/Nationally ranked xc/Track team - 2:19 (800m)/ 5:15 (mile)/ 11:35 (2-mile).
That said they didn’t achieve these marks for all of the Freshman 5 since admissions plays a big part, so faster student-athletes or faster with better scores/grades but not what admissions was looking for may end up at other schools- I think there’s a lot of scrambling after ED1.
Thanks @Chembiodad
I also saw this -the NESCAC championship qualifying standards. What are your thoughts on these - they seem a little slow?
http://www.nescac.com/sports/track/2011-12/championship/qualifying_standard
@wisteria100, qualifying standards enable all schools to field athletes, but the competitive race marks are much faster - http://nescac.com/sports/track/2016-17/championship/WTRK_Results_042917.htm
^ Chembiodad is absolutely right. The qualifying standards are there to provide a threshhold of participation. However, just like going to Nationals in high school, the standards, are the bare minimum. In order to truly be competitive in post season runners are going to need to be far below the standard. I would also suggest that many athletes that have consciously chosen D3 programs have done so because of academic excellence of the schools, and still find that there are many top notch coaches and competitors in their leagues that will allow them to continue to grow as a runner
I worry we might be confusing this kid with all this back-and-forth parsing of recruiting standards.
Here’s the nut of the OP’s questions:
For my money, the answers are:
- Yes—this very well could be important component of the personal story you tell in your applications. But this remains a theoretical issue until you begin conversation with coaches and have a realistic list of target schools…which requires numbers and brings us to #2.
- Maybe. But you really won't be able to answer this question without junior track performances, ACT or SAT scores, and 11th grade GPA.
I suggest you come back in spring/summer after you have some numbers to report and pose your questions again. You’re getting a lot of friendly advice, but without more specifics nobody can really evaluate your situation. As you can see from discussion above, there’s a huge range between recruited D1 athlete and walk-on D3 athlete; where you might fall in that range is anybody’s guess at this point. Similarly, without test scores we’re just speculating about scenarios that might or might not apply to you. For now, just worry about the things within your control—like putting in good effort in school and on the track.
As you can see, lots of people are eager to help and hopefully that will encourage you. But you have to run a bit farther down the road before all your fans can really be helpful.
@runjunkie678, definitely start to reach out to coaches by both completing the recruiting questionnaires and emailing coaches with both your track and life stories. Also it’s important to know that Ivies or D3 don’t provide athletic scholarships, but the Ivies and top D3’s will provide need based aid; the major D1’s certainly will provide athletic scholarships and likely need based aid as well. Good luck and keep us posted!
@oldschooldad, just like a walk-on being rare in D1 running, many of the top D3 teams have eliminated walk-ons as well - short of a student-athlete with a conference championship qualifying time showing up at the coach’s office.
Thanks so much for all the advice everyone!
Shoot high, @runjunkie678. My D2 is now running XC at Bates and loves it. You may not run competitively for the rest of your life, but you will forever have the benefit of a great education. D2 often seeks extra help and she is getting what she needs.
@runjunkie678, definitely speak to NESCAC coaches; DD is also a xc/track student-athlete at a NESCAC school and is having a great time - time for Indoor Season!
@runjunkie678 I agree with others on two main points: 1. yes, tell the coaches everything. If a coach wants you he or she will know what can be useful for admissions. 2. You don’t have enough data to determine fit. You need spring track times and test scores. At that point you’ll know what level of competition and what sort of school is best for you and can search appropriately.
If you are still at an elite private school you should make use of the resources there. Your coach likely has experience with hundreds of student athletes like you, and knows many of the college coaches in your region.
Some of the D1 schools you mention are significant athletic reaches for you right now. You have a lot of potential, but without improved track times these schools won’t be realistic running opportunities. Current juniors thinking about those schools are probably already under 2/4:25 for 8/16 as sophomores and sub 16 For 5k xc. And even they aren’t sure things. Sure, you might be able to get to their level. But you should get comfortable with the idea that the level you are at after spring track and perhaps fall senior xc, whatever that is, will be the best guide to a good running fit in college. Don’t get caught up in the ‘how fast do I have to run to get in to school x’ trap.
Agree with @politeperson on the time trap as your looking to be a student-athlete, so the school should be one that you’ll be challenged at and happy at. I always scratch my head when I hear of student-athletes going to schools that aren’t academic fits solely because they can be the big dog athlete.