Cross-posted with engineering forum: Need ME PhD advice!

Graduate School
1

<p>This is a long post, but in short i am looking for: a) Suggestions for strong programs that are less selective and appropriate for someone of my qualifications, and b) any advice on the application process.</p>

<p>I'm a senior in Mechanical Engineering at Cornell, and I'm interested in getting a PhD. I figured out pretty late in the game what I want to do, and my stats aren't really stellar either (especially research experience), so I thought I would post here to get an idea of where I should be aiming.</p>

<p>GRE: 770Q, 630V, 5.0 W (kind of bummed, but not worth taking again)
GPA: 3.48 overall, 3.56 major
(Lots of Bs and a C+ my sophomore year. I've had above 3.5 for 4/6 semesters, above 3.7 in 2/6.)</p>

<p>Research experience: Two summers and a winter in Materials Science at a flagship public university near my home. It was a good experience, but unfortunately not in my area of interest (robotics/mechatronics, controls/dynamics), which I picked up after I took Mechatronics last year. Worked on a design project as well as helped a grad student with his research. Did not write anything publishable. I was a freshman/sophomore and didn't know what I was doing/was not as good at getting things done as I am now.</p>

<p>Work experience: Most recent summer at a large engineering company. Did various design and analytical work. Again, a good experience, but completely unrelated to my field of interest. Also found out that I like the corporate environment and would probably like to do research in industry.</p>

<p>Other: No significant awards (four semesters on Dean's list), but I hold leadership positions in a couple of campus organizations (this can be fairly time-consuming). I have also worked about 8 hours a week grading papers for Statics and Dynamics.</p>

<p>LORs: One from my research professor, should be good. One from my boss from my internship, should be good. The other will probably be from a professor whose class I took, and will be meh (this student did well in my class, he is a hard worker, blah blah blah).</p>

<p>I have picked out reach schools I would like to apply to:
Cornell, Michigan, Purdue, Carnegie Mellon</p>

<p>My adviser suggested that I might be more competitive for top 25 schools. How selective are:
UCLA, UCSD, Maryland, Wisconsin, RPI, Case Western?</p>

<p>In short, how likely am I to get into any of these programs, and do you know of any others that might be a good fit for a person of my interests and qualifications?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

2

<p>I’m guessing you’re looking for an assistanceship (be it an RA or TA)? Just because you are admitted to a school does not mean that you are guaranteed funding. I certainly would not recommend paying out of pocket or taking out loans for 5 years to get a PhD. In order to get an RA, you have to contact a professor after you are admitted and see if he is willing to give you funding. If that professor gets contacted by students with a higher GPA and more research experience, it seems only logical that the professor will give them the funding unless you can show why you would make a better PhD student over those with a higher GPA.</p>

<p>That being said, if you don’t mind my asking, what is your motive for a PhD? If you don’t have a passion for research, there are not many benefits to getting a PhD. Financially, you will actually lose money over your lifetime if you were to pursue a PhD (5 years doing a PhD while you could have earned over a quarter of a million dollars in 5 years right after your Bachelors). After you graduate, you will be overqualified for many industry positions. There aren’t too many R&D positions or professor positions available either.</p>

<p>Recently, I have seen that there seems to be a little bit of a shortage for PhD students (for the reason stated above) so you might have a shot. You just never know until you apply because it all depends on what pool of applicants they receive. The worst thing that will happen is that they will say no. So it never hurts to apply to a school you have always dreamed of going to (though with your GPA I probably wouldn’t bother applying to MIT, CalTech, or Stanford due to enormous amounts of applications they receive).</p>

<p>My dad is mechanical engineering professor and I am actually studying ME (graduate May 2011). I have long thought about doing a PhD because I love research but when I think about how poorly marketable it is I get second thoughts. With your Bachelors, you could go industry and after a few promotions be in management making more money than you would with a PhD. PhD students work long hours (teaching classes, taking classes, doing research, writing research papers so that their advisors get the credit and more funding, etc…) and barely get enough money in stipends to eat and pay rent.</p>

3

<p>Mechanical engineering is a known soft spot in the engineering fields, but that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t pursue it if that’s what you really love. </p>

<p>With few exceptions, PhD in engineering programs will pay for everything, plus a stipend, as long as the student makes satisfactory progress toward the degree. You will be awarded either a fellowship and/or a TA/RA position upon acceptance. If you get the TA/RA, you’ll have to secure the specific spot with a professor, although sometimes first-year TAs are simply assigned. After the second year, students are typically supported by their advisors, and they focus solely on research. </p>

<p>To the OP: definitely listen to your advisor! He/she should have a good sense of where students like you have had success in the past. But it’s okay to apply to schools that seem slightly out of reach, as long as you have the time and money. Some students are shocked by where they are accepted, and that could be you. I may be wrong, but doesn’t UMD require professor sponsorship prior to application? (It may not in engineering, although it does in other sciences.) If that’s the case, you’d better get on that one right away.</p>

4

<p>beartato,</p>

<p>I apologize for not seeing the part where you state that you do want to indeed do research. However, it is not guaranteed that a school will give you a TA/RA position or any assistanceship even if they admit you into the PhD program. You could get admitted to a top school but not get offered any assistanceship if your application is not strong enough. Many schools don’t allow first-year graduate students to be TAs. However, some might. </p>

<p>I hope I didn’t sound gloomy in the previous post. I am seriously thinking about going to graduate school next year (I even started applying to different schools) but I just can’t believe how a PhD (5 years of hard work) doesn’t bring any financial rewards whatsoever. If a good company offers me a job and is in a city where I could work on my masters part-time, I might not consider doing a PhD. At the school where I attend, a recent Masters graduate just landed a job where he makes more than the Assistant professors (with PhDs) and almost as much as some Associate Professors. At times I wonder if an engineering PhD is an overkill.</p>

5

<p>Momwaitingfornew,</p>

<p>What do you mean mechanical engineering is a soft-spot? Mechanical Engineering is a diverse field (many MEs can work in biomedical, aerospace, nuclear and countless applications). The only engineering degree besides ME that might be harder is chemical or electrical engineering.</p>

<p>The problem is that a PhD in ME seems to be an overkill. A Masters in ME opens up doors to many high paying jobs (management and R&D positions).</p>

6

<p>I was talking to a few engineers several months ago, and they said that the demand for mechanical engineers is shrinking, that it was a “known issue.” But as I said, that doesn’t really matter. There aren’t many jobs in classics, yet students choose to study them anyway because they love the subject matter. You have to take your chances to follow your passion. I suggest that, if this statement worries you, that you research the statistics to make sure I’m right/wrong.</p>

<p>I disagree that a PhD is limiting. I know many engineers with PhDs who have done quite well, both in academia and in industry. Is a PhD in ME “overkill”? I don’t know. But I know it’s not overkill in computer engineering, bioengineering, and chemical engineering. If you want to lead research groups in industry, chances are that you’ll need a PhD. In some places, it’s unusual for researchers NOT to have a PhD. (Development is another matter entirely.)</p>

7

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<p>Most PhD programs DO guarantee assistance. You should learn what your package will be when you receive your acceptance letter – what the support covers and how much the stipend will be. Some programs promise support on a year-to-year basis while others guarantee support for a minimum of four or five years, but all eventually pay for a student’s degree from start to finish, even if only one year is guaranteed at the start. If you look on the program’s website under “financial assistance” or “support,” you will see what the program promises. Granted, you will be living at the poverty level, as most grad students do, but you will be taken care of.</p>

<p>If you do not get your tuition plus a stipend when accepted into a PhD program, run away. In this country, we pay exorbitant amounts for undergraduate, professional (MD, MBA, etc.), and master’s degrees, but usually nothing for the PhD, especially in the sciences.</p>

8

<p>When you tell me to research the statistics, are you referring to a statistic like the one you provided?</p>

<p>“I was talking to a few engineers several months ago, and they said that the demand for mechanical engineers is shrinking, that it was a “known issue.””</p>

<p>I asked the question simply to see what was meant by “known soft spot”. I had never heard that terminology before. </p>

<p>ME is not considered a “classic science”. Physics and math are classic sciences. ME is an applied science for the most part. Out of curiosity, do you have an engineering background?</p>

<p>I am on these forums to speak about my experiences. As an ME student near graduation, I have seen many BS and MS graduates from my school who get promoted to management and make way more money than the average ME PhD.</p>

9

<p>No, I don’t have an engineer background; however, I’m married to an engineer who has worked in both industry and academia. And I know how PhD students are supported.</p>

10

<p>Thank you both for your responses. Having asked around, I feel reassured because people have been telling me that I have a decent shot at the less competitive schools. I will apply to 2 or 3 top ten programs as well just for kicks. Momwaitingfornew, thank you for pointing out the possible requirement for UMD; I will look into that ASAP!</p>

<p>I definitely cannot afford grad school without full funding, so I hope that I will get accepted into programs that take care of me (and based on what I’ve heard from recent graduates, it sounds like the vast majority of programs do fund PhDs one way or another). </p>

<p>I am not particularly concerned about my earnings after graduation, as long as I am living comfortably and have a job I enjoy. Otherwise, I might go for a Master’s degree instead.</p>

11

<p>Wow Moussi you certainly painted a drab picture regarding the prospects of a PhD. That was a few months ago and I was wondering if you’ve decided to go on a PhD? I personally like research, but then working in R&D is research too, right? I mean, don’t R&D departments need highly qualified researchers? And also to my knowledge, the positions of project manager and higher are usually reserved for people for PhDs. </p>

<p>Just stating out my opinion. Could be wrong.</p>